[Bob_Huntley]

One thing I have never understood is when certain clubs argue that it will increase pace of play to take a cart and that it's almost bad form not to take one. They are terribly time consuming in my opinion and it gives the slower players even more of an excuse to faff around! Thankfully, carts aren't widespread in the UK at all...

Brian,

I hope that on your trip to the US you do not make mention of your distaste for carts and their users; you may well get an earful.

Bob

[JNC Lyon]

One thing I have never understood is when certain clubs argue that it will increase pace of play to take a cart and that it's almost bad form not to take one. They are terribly time consuming in my opinion and it gives the slower players even more of an excuse to faff around! Thankfully, carts aren't widespread in the UK at all...

Brian,

I hope that on your trip to the US you do not make mention of your distaste for carts and their users; you may well get an earful.

Bob

He may get an earful from some people, but I think he's right.  They definitely slow down play, because most golfers do not understand cart etiquette.  Most players who do understand usually don't take carts.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

The Olympic Club has a culture of carrying one's own bag, which I assume is owed to our origins as an athletic club.  One will certainly see some caddy play, as well as more than our fair share of carts, but my estimation is carrying one's own bag is an overarching ethos at the club.  I do wish we could use pull carts/trolleys.

WW

[mike_beene]

we can carry and a good number do.I push a cart.We can't bring our own but pay ten dollars a round to push the clubs carts.Talk about a profit center.But getting push carts was important to me because it seems an easier way to age.We can't make a caddy program go.Half our membership is lazy and rides.What an eyesore.

[Bob_Huntley]

Like John Kavanaugh I find this attitude to be intolerant in the extreme. Someone  wrote that to see people riding was an eyesore, others complained of a certain laziness by cart riders. What are the ages of these paragons who lift and carry? Have they determined that the riders have no infirmity?

I was fortunate enough when starting to play the game to have a caddie. When arriving Stateside I learned to carry; I much prefered having a caddie. In later years I used a Kangaroo cart and now, in my dotage I ride.

There was also a claim that his foursome is much quicker around the course than the Cartballer. Pick any other three players and come to Monterey and beat my foursome around the course; and name the stakes.


Bob 

[mike_beene]

I am sorry ,no offense intended.I think there should be a choice and will someday have to ride also.I just wish people who can walk would just so all resorts won't ban walking.

[David_Elvins]

Like John Kavanaugh I find this attitude to be intolerant in the extreme.

Bob,

After reading through this thread, and others, i don't think I have really seen anyone argue strongly against the individual who rides in a cart. 

I do see a lot of people arguing against a culture that promotes ubiquitous carting.  I think the two are quite different.

[Kris Shreiner]

George Pazin,

Please don't let a few caddies who felt they had to act like serfs discourage you from taking caddies! You have always impressed me with your posts and obvious love for the game. You're the last person that caddie golf would want to have avoid the experience. Any solid, veteran caddie should have you at ease by the second hole. If you have a younger caddie, help them along and remember how much you enjoy the game...they're just starting to get a taste.

I'm constantly dismayed at the very mixed appraisals of the caddie dynamic from those on this site and elsewhere. It is clearly the inconsistent, and often poor effort that damages what should be quite a rewarding experience. There is much work to do to in improving this unfortunate situation within the game and I'm determined to join with others to improve caddie golf.

Cheers,
Kris

[Duncan Cheslett]

Welcome Malcolm, and thanks for the thread.

My first thread here was on the same subject, after I learned of the prevalence of cart use in the US. It shocked me to discover not only that perfectly fit able bodied golfers routinely used carts, but that at many courses they were compulsory!

As you say, in the UK there is very little culture of golf carts. Most clubs have a few for hire but 99% of people carry or pull trolleys. At my club probably half carry. My wife bought me a trolley for Christmas and I've been using that, but on many roll-up fourballs I've been the odd one out - the others carrying.

Do caddies really still exist? I assumed they were a throwback to the Edwardian era when players were 'gentlemen' and caddies were 'serfs'. I would feel very uncomfortable with the arrangement; just as I feel uncomfortable when someone carries my bags to a hotel room for me. Maybe it is my inate socialistic tendencies or maybe it is just that I am as tight as a gnat's chuff!

I have just been arranging a day of golf for my father, my two brothers and myself to mark Dad's 75th birthday next month. As well as getting on a little he has a gammy leg so I've booked a buggy (cart). Surely this is the real purpose of golf carts; to enable the elderly and/or infirm to enjoy a round of golf.

[Rob Rigg]

Malcolm - Absolutely! Nothing better than a great walk with friends - or even on one's own at dawn or dusk. The clik clak of the clubs is brilliant - a rhythm for the round - I can think of few other ways I would rather spend a day than walking 36.

You are fortunate to have a great walking club to play out of - it is a fairly rare bird in the US and should be cherished!

If the thread can stay focused on enjoying the walk and not become a debate about who should or should not be allowed to ride in carts, why carts are evil, why walkers are slow, why trail fees are lame, why rangefinders are ruining the game, why gps is awesome, why cart girls should be hot, and so on and so forth we might be able to learn about great walking clubs around the country.

I am not a member there, but Ballyneal certainly fits the bill for an ideal walking club and there are few greater walks in the US than the four found at Bandon Dunes.

[Steve Lang]

praise and honours to those who hoof it..

However,  after 50 years of doing so, while it is still my first intent, I will attest to enjoying the game more when my feet don't hurt or its just too plain hot or humid or extreme a layout to get around without it being a death march..

so enjoy walking 27-54 holes a day when you're young.. with 14 clubs and all the fixins

P, 52°, PW, 8i, 6i, 7w, 2w, D + 4-5 balls works for me..

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,
It is many moons since I have carried my sticks and enjoyed "the clik clak of the clubs". For the last thirty years I have been dragging them around on a hand-cart (buggy).  I am interested to know how many of you die-hards who tote your cubs over your shoulder actually carry the full complement of 14 clubs.........or do you give yourself a break and just use a half set when you are being so principled!

Cheers Colin

[Mark Pearce]

Colin,

I carry 14 clubs.  Always.

As to the walking/carting "debate", I wish it didn't need to always verge on the acrimonious.  I enjoy walking and feel that the pace of a walked round and its rhythm suits my game.  I tend not to play well when forced to take a cart (very rare and only really when playing in the US).  However, it's not my place to tell other people what they should or shouldn't do.  I do find it odd when I see groups of young Americans playing in carts at Crail Balcomie and can't help feeling that they're missing out on something.  If carts allow less fit or older golfers to play the game they love or allow golf to be played in climates that make walking difficult, then great.  Sometimes the walkers amongst us can come across as just a little bit sanctimonious, perhaps we should try harder to avoid that.

[Bill_McBride]

Colin,

I carry 14 clubs.  Always.

As to the walking/carting "debate", I wish it didn't need to always verge on the acrimonious.  I enjoy walking and feel that the pace of a walked round and its rhythm suits my game.  I tend not to play well when forced to take a cart (very rare and only really when playing in the US).  However, it's not my place to tell other people what they should or shouldn't do.  I do find it odd when I see groups of young Americans playing in carts at Crail Balcomie and can't help feeling that they're missing out on something.  If carts allow less fit or older golfers to play the game they love or allow golf to be played in climates that make walking difficult, then great.  Sometimes the walkers amongst us can come across as just a little bit sanctimonious, perhaps we should try harder to avoid that.

Mark, the last time I was on the Balcomie, the only cart riders I saw were a couple of young Scots!  It was quite humorous seeing them hopping in and out of their buggy with its orange flag!  Quite off putting actually.............

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Since Champions started allowing trollies it appears walkers have jumped up to half the play. The Olympic Club seems to be 1/3 walkers or more. MPCC provides trollies which appears to have increased walkers significantly as well. All are great trends.

[Kris Shreiner]

Colin,
I carry 14 clubs, always. Prefer to walk, cut do cart it on occasion. Age, 50. If your fit or able, fine. For those can't for whatever reason, the cart is certainly o.k. Aren't we embracing enjoying the game folks? If so, so long as no harm to individuals is being done, why the fuss?!

Cheers,
Kris

[John Kavanaugh]

Am I alone in thinking the click clak of clubs is rude?

[Bill_McBride]

Am I alone in thinking the click clak of clubs is rude?

No, I always try to muffle mine with the hand on that side.  My wife nags me about this., says it's very annoying.

[Ben Kodadek]

Carry all 14 in a single strap pencil bag. 

[JNC Lyon]

Like John Kavanaugh I find this attitude to be intolerant in the extreme. Someone  wrote that to see people riding was an eyesore, others complained of a certain laziness by cart riders. What are the ages of these paragons who lift and carry? Have they determined that the riders have no infirmity?

I was fortunate enough when starting to play the game to have a caddie. When arriving Stateside I learned to carry; I much prefered having a caddie. In later years I used a Kangaroo cart and now, in my dotage I ride.

There was also a claim that his foursome is much quicker around the course than the Cartballer. Pick any other three players and come to Monterey and beat my foursome around the course; and name the stakes.


Bob 

Bob,

Clearly you do not fit our stereotype of the cart golfer.  I don't doubt that you are a very fast player in a cart.  However, it also sounds like you played the game as a walker for most of your life.  In my mind, that is one reason for faster play and better etiquette as a cart golfer now.  Like I said, most people who know how to golf in a cart are walkers at heart.  Those who have always played in golf carts are missing out on the spirit of the game.

To your point about the infirmity of cart golfers, I know there are plenty of people who are physically unable to walk 18 holes.  However, from working at a high-end private club in the summers, I see many golfers take carts when they have ample physical ability to walk.  It happens every day.  Furthermore, older golfers who are unable to walk might be unable in part because they never walked in the past.

[JNC Lyon]

Colin,
I carry 14 clubs, always. Prefer to walk, cut do cart it on occasion. Age, 50. If your fit or able, fine. For those can't for whatever reason, the cart is certainly o.k. Aren't we embracing enjoying the game folks? If so, so long as no harm to individuals is being done, why the fuss?!

Cheers,
Kris

Kris,

Enjoying the game is all fine and good.  However, cart golf interferes with enjoying the game in multiple ways.  Golf courses are now designed with cart golf as the primary type of golf in mind.  Thus, modern courses talk longer to play, are nearly unwalkable, and often make riding mandatory.  As a result, the game has gotten slower.  The slower modern game is absolutely the result of golf carts.  Compare public courses in the UK to public courses in the US.  In the UK, where riding is very uncommon, rounds average 3.5 to 4 hours.  In the US, rounds are in excess of 5 hours on busy public courses that are cart-dominated.  Furthermore, modern courses that take up more land because of cart golf now take longer to play.  If I am playing as a single or twosome at an American course, it is almost guaranteed that I will find myself waiting behind a foursome in carts.

Additionally, a golfer who plays in a cart all his life misses out on the etiquette.  Some of the worst displays of etiquette I have ever seen involve cart golfers.  The classic mistake is bringing taking a wedge out of the cart, walking to the ball, chipping up, then going back to the cart for the putter.  Others include parking 50-60 yards in front of a green, driving to close to a green, or driving in circles to look for a golf ball in the rough.  I see mistakes from walking golfers, no doubt, but most of the problems I see are from cart golfers.

If you enjoy the game in a cart, and it does not affect my game, then it is not a major problem.  However, I rarely find that to be the case.

[Tim Martin]

Am I alone in thinking the click clak of clubs is rude?

JK-I have no cart issues but don`t they rattle around just as much as the click clak of carrying clubs? What alliteration.

[John Kavanaugh]

Am I alone in thinking the click clak of clubs is rude?

JK-I have no cart issues but don`t they rattle around just as much as the click clak of carrying clubs? What alliteration.

Carts can make unnecessary and purposely rude noises, I just have yet heard anyone sing their praise.  We all know how to let a group know we are behind them and we should also recognize the risk in doing so.  To click calk your clubs is no better than bouncing a golf ball on a wooden bench.

[Terry Lavin]

It's not just the clicking of the clubs, it's the resounding thud from all of the walk & carry crowd patting themselves on the back!  Praise indeed.

[Tim Nugent]

I used a double strap carry - stand bag for years.  Had to buy a little canvas Sunday bag at Prestwick when my clubs didn't arrive on my flight.  I dug that bag out again due to the new baggage rules and used it all fall in Finland.  Even with 14 clubs and being 50 and a bad knee, I had no problem walking.  However, if I get a blister, I might want a cart, but otherwise, I'm a convert.

JC, taking exception to your statement that all modern courses are designed as cart courses.  I think many of us, while trying to accomodate the fact that carts will be an option, do not design in such a manner that allows that fact to take precidence over our design tennants.  In fact, I don't even think of or refer to them as "Cart Paths".  To me, they are service roads for maintenance.  I don't specify that the course purchase golf carts.  If they do so on their own and let those carts drive on the service roads - that's up to them.  However, I will try to intregrate them into the mozaic of the terrain in the lest visually offensive way possible. So, to me, carts are a management issue, not a design isssue.

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