[Jud_T]

IMHO if you have to force folks to eat there to meet a minimum there's a flaw in the business plan.

[Patrick_Mucci]

IMHO if you have to force folks to eat there to meet a minimum there's a flaw in the business plan.

It's got nothing to do with a business plan, it's about utilization patterns in the face of exterior competition and changing social values/patterns.

When a department has negative gross profit margins, why force volume up, you only lose more money.

[Jud_T]

Pat,

It's about maintaining a full dining complement that the market wouldn't demand otherwise...

[Mark Pritchett]

I appreciate a really good cup of coffee before a morning round.   

[Brent Hutto]

I appreciate a really good cup of coffee before a morning round.   

And some French Toast.

[Ben Sims]

It's got nothing to do with a business plan, it's about utilization patterns in the face of exterior competition and changing social values/patterns.

When a department has negative gross profit margins, why force volume up, you only lose more money.
[/quote]

Tally...Mucci 01 Fox 3.  Splash bogey. 

I agree 100% with what you are saying here. 

I don't know if we agree on the solution, but your statement above highlights two, extremely important points.

1)  Maximal variety with minimal utility is expensive for any business. So why even try?

2) Most importantly.  Why are F&B at a golf club thinking of outside F&B as competition?  There should be only concern for maximizing member happiness, financially and gastronomically.  The health of the club would benefit by being a service aspect for convenience.  But NOT the focus.   

Likely though, Mr. Mucci, that changing social dynamics will affect the future of the service industry (F&B, cart girls, show shines, towels) much more than outside "competition".

[Chris Cupit]

IMHO if you have to force folks to eat there to meet a minimum there's a flaw in the business plan.

It's got nothing to do with a business plan, it's about utilization patterns in the face of exterior competition and changing social values/patterns.

When a department has negative gross profit margins, why force volume up, you only lose more money.

Again, I do not like FB minimums for a lot of reasons and I understand Pat's point but I think Pat is forgeting that a huge factor in food and beverage operations are the fixed costs of being open whether you serve one customer or one hundred.  Many clubs hope to "force" people into the dining areas through minimums and it is clearly more cost effective to serve more people.

As an example, if I am open on Monday night for ala carte dinner I must have a minimum of a bartender, server, cook, dishwasher and manager to close up.  If I only serve eight people I obviously lose money but as that number goes up and I serve eighteen or maybe eighty I pass a point of paying for my fixed costs (i've only included labor here) and then I have a chance to make an actual profit.  Obviously at eighty I need more servers and maybe an extra cook but the point is that increased volume helps improve margins although maybe not to a break even or profitable level.  But, the margins do get better unless you are a complete idiot!

[JMEvensky]

1)  Maximal variety with minimal utility is expensive for any business. So why even try?

Because not many clubs have the balls to change a 75 year old way of doing business.

Full service dining is frequently a black hole,but as others have said,a lot of the fixed costs have already been borne(updated kitchens,dining rooms,clubhouses,etc.).The usual thinking is that "we've got it so let's get the most out of it".Hence,the idea to drive the members toward club dining with the hope that it will pay off somewhere else at the club.

Sometimes the devil you know is less scary.

As a general rule,member-owned clubs are the worst run businesses in the world.Some should be HBS case studies.

[Steve Lapper]

Archie,

I've NEVER seen a club include liquor as part of their minimum.

It's a FOOD minimum, to encourage utilization of the kitchen, not the bar, which always seems to do well in many clubs.

Yet you are required to have two livers for admission at one of your clubs!!

[Mike Hendren]

We have a great Fried Bologna sandwich, excellent burgers and the chili and the onion rings are not bad

Chris, two questions:
1) Is the bologna pre-packaged or do you hand cut half inches slices for frying?; and
2) Before frying do you cut slits in the outer edge to keep the slice from bubbling up for even frying?

Bogey

[JC Jones]

We have a great Fried Bologna sandwich, excellent burgers and the chili and the onion rings are not bad

Chris, two questions:
1) Is the bologna pre-packaged or do you hand cut half inches slices for frying?; and
2) Before frying do you cut slits in the outer edge to keep the slice from bubbling up for even frying?

Bogey

3)  Wonderbread or wheat bread?
4)  Hellman's or Miracle Whip?

[Philippe Binette]

My dream menu wouldn't even require a oven, just some fridges, a panini machine and a BBQ

1) Paninis or grilled sandwiches, (tuna, grilled cheese, grilled vegetables etc)
2) Chips
3) Green or cesar salad
4) Open BBQ in the evening
5) Ice cream for dessert or cake bought at a local bakery

Drinks:
Beers and whiskys

Capuccinos and expressos


Done

[JMEvensky]

4) Open BBQ in the evening

With the name Phillipe Binette and all you want is BBQ?Your ancestors are spinning in their graves.

[Carl Nichols]

If people are willing to join clubs that have food minimums, which are designed to offset losses that occur when you keep dining options open at times when they wouldn't otherwise make money, why hasn't the market spoken?  The market is saying that people are willing to pay X, or be required to spend X, on dining each month/quarter/year as part of the cost of ensuring that you'll have an open kitchen, server, etc., on a Tuesday afternoon when no one's around, and a private restaurant would be closed.  City clubs do the same thing. 

[Anthony Gray]

   Kibi

[Philippe Binette]

JMEvensky,

I'm french-canadian, not french and although I have a love affair with "gastronomie" I feel there's a time and place for everything...
a golf clubhouse is a place to relax and have a good time with friends... so tested and true food works just fine.

Fine dining is an activity in itself that, to execute properly, requires attention and a good 4 hours.

Golf food is closer to the pub concept than fine dining.

But I'll put dijon mustard on my burger... just like the french would do.... or Barack Obama

[JMEvensky]

JMEvensky,

I'm french-canadian, not french and although I have a love affair with "gastronomie" I feel there's a time and place for everything...
a golf clubhouse is a place to relax and have a good time with friends... so tested and true food works just fine.

Fine dining is an activity in itself that, to execute properly, requires attention and a good 4 hours.

Golf food is closer to the pub concept than fine dining.

But I'll put dijon mustard on my burger... just like the french would do.... or Barack Obama

Phillipe,understood and I agree about the time/place for everything--I should've added a smiley.

In my part of the world,BBQ is considered pub grub AND fine dining.

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