[Mike Jansen]

Making a trip to Scottsdale for Spring Training and have a day to golf... little did I realize how many great golf courses are there. 

WeKoPa Sagauro has always peaked my interest and I am leaning heavily that way... this is my first trip to AZ so I would like to experience desert golf at its finest.

I am considering these others, please let me know if any of these are better choices:  ASU Karsten, Phoenix CC, TPC, Talking Stick, Grayhawk are all close to my hotel.  These are a little further than I want to travel, but can be convinced: Troon, Whisper Rock, Golf Club of Scottsdale, Estancia, Boulders, Desert Mountain

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Be sure to play Vista Verde -- just down the street on Dynamite Rd from Troon North. Better course and better overall value.

For what it's worth -- even though it's a slightly longer trek head to the western side of the valley and play Raven at Verrado and a few of the other courses in the Buckeye / Peoria area. Trilogy is another that comes to mind -- likely you can access Engh's Blackstone as well.

Heading south nearby to Sky Harbor also works -- you have Whirlwind and Southern Dunes in that neck of the woods.

[Andy Troeger]

Mike,
My personal opinion having played most of the courses you mention would be to go to We-Ko-Pa Saguaro. I think its the best course in the valley--public or private. That said, I'm not sure I'd pass up an opportunity at Whisper Rock or Estancia if they are options just because you can always go back to Saguaro being that its public.

Vista Verde is good too and less expensive, but I'll disagree with Matt that its the better course comparatively. Vista Verde is probably a better driving course and I would say harder than Saguaro.

[Jud_T]

Talking Stick North and WeKoPa Saguaro would be my choices, but I haven't played all that's on offer....

[Ben Sims]

Mike,

I've only played Vista Verde, Talking Stick North, and Saquaro in the PHX area.  I would rank them TSN, Saguaro, VV.  I love TSN because no one does green to tee transitions better than Bill Coore and the routing also provides a ton of variety in length, hole shape, etc.

For other reasons as well, Talking Stick North feels like the beginners guide to understanding golf architecture and a course that any fan of golf architecture must see.  

[Andy Troeger]

I'll also vastly disagree with TSN. I just looked at my list and out of 37 courses in AZ that I've seen I have Saguaro at #2 and TSN at #27. TSN has a few really good holes, but the vast majority are just long and flat. I'm looking at the card and the course is hardly a poster child for hole length variety--every par four is between 356 and 439 from the 6500 yard markers and from the tips its 391 to 471. With only two par fives, that's a lot of medium to long par fours. Its easier than most long courses because of the width, but I'd include Longbow as another course that I'd rather return to than TSN. TSN is a nice walking course, but Saguaro and Vista Verde are both walkable too.

[Tom Yost]

WeKoPa Sagauro has always peaked my interest and I am leaning heavily that way... this is my first trip to AZ so I would like to experience desert golf at its finest.

Nothing more needs to be said.  For public access, Saguaro will give you the best Arizona desert golf experience.

[Tony Weiler]

I also really like We-Ko-Pa Saguaro.  If I had to rank my Scottsdale/Phx. courses it goes like this: 

WKP Saguaro
Grayhawk (Talon)
Vista Verde
WKP Cholla
TPC Scottsdale
Whirlwind (Devil's Claw)
Raven at So. Mt.
Sun Ridge Canyon

I certainly have less experience in the area than some, but for me I'd start with WKP Saguaro.  If you can get on the private courses you mentioned, that might be an option as well.

[Harris Nepon]

I only have one Arizona trip under my belt, so limited info here.

I wasn't a huge fan of Talking Stick. i played it before I knew anything about GCA and found it very boring.

I liked both courses at Grayhawk a lot. Probabyl Raven more than Talen.

I've never seen anyone mention it, but a course called Dinosaur Mountatin at the Gold Canyon Golf Resort was my favourite in Arizona. It's not in Scottsdale, think it was about 45 mins outside but well worth the drive IMO. Not sure about it's GCA relevance, but awesome course.

Raven at Verrado was great. We played 18 and got out for another 18 right after with a $20 "fee" to the cart guys.

[Eric Olsen]

we ko pa, saguaro is a must play

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

If you have private options available to you -- then Whisper Rock is a place to go. 36 top flight holes -- especially Lefty's original 18.

Desert Mtn's Chirichua and Geronimo are worth playing -- provided you've got serious game to play them.

Desert Forest is also worth checking out too.

Andy and I see Vista Verde differently -- Ken Kavanaugh did a stellar job there and frankly C&C's Saguaro has plenty of so-so holes in the front third of the course.

[Carl Nichols]

Why I would pick Saguaro over VV:  (1) much more interesting site; (2) much more walkable; (3) as of two years ago, better experience (VV was operating out of a trailer); and (4) at least as good of a design. 

Don't have experience with other privates, but would consider Desert Forest, which as I understand it was one of the original desert layouts and thus there's a bit of a history lesson to it.  Also, cool, understated vibe to the whole place; a bit tight in places, but a very cool course.

[Mark Smolens]

Making a trip to Scottsdale for Spring Training and have a day to golf... little did I realize how many great golf courses are there. 

WeKoPa Sagauro has always peaked my interest and I am leaning heavily that way... this is my first trip to AZ so I would like to experience desert golf at its finest.

I am considering these others, please let me know if any of these are better choices:  ASU Karsten, Phoenix CC, TPC, Talking Stick, Grayhawk are all close to my hotel.  These are a little further than I want to travel, but can be convinced: Troon, Whisper Rock, Golf Club of Scottsdale, Estancia, Boulders, Desert Mountain

Having trouble picturing a hotel which is "close" to both Karsten (in Tempe on southern side of Valley) and Greyhawk (north Scottsdale).

That said, you cannot go wrong with Saguaro or VV -- critics of either are picking nits in my view. Each is a fabulous place to play. I might give Saguaro 1 over 1A if only because you can double up with the Cholla course for your afternoon round (not very walkable imo, but a fun golf course). I recognize that opinions vary on TSN, but I've always enjoyed it. The site may be flat and featureless, but I'm not certain that that's not a plus in terms of the architectural merit of what C&C have created.

If you have access to the private courses on the north side of the Valley, you probably can't go wrong with any of them. I've only played Apache at Desert Mountain once, but absolutely loved it. Could be the hardest, fastest course I've played on this side of the pond -- and a large percentage of the membership hates the place so it's very easy to get on there. Whisper Rock was incredible. Where else can you hit balls on the range next to Miller Barber? And see the indexes posted of Paul Casey and Aaron Baddeley? I've never been to Desert Forest, but intend to correct that deficiency some time this winter.

I see the Greyhawk courses as Troon North wannabes. . . and without a Troon Card I can't see forking over the major cash to play either course at Troon North. The Whirlwind courses make for a nice 36 hole day without traveling between, and a little further south at Southern Dunes seems worth the drive to me. Skip Karsten and TPC Stadium -- if you want to give the TPC your money, play the Champions Course next door and spend the money you save eating sushi at Ra downtown.

[Matthew Petersen]

Karsten and Grayhawk aren't TOO far apart. Karsten is across the street from Scottsdale and as "north Scottsdale" goes, Grayhawk would be at the southern edge of it.

I will second the votes for WeKoPa. Two excellent courses out there, both definitely desert courses and yet both with distinct style, which is cool. I do like the Grayhawk courses, personally, but neither plays much like a desert course. Vista Verde is a fun option as well.

[Jim Franklin]

If you can get on Estancia or Whisper Rock then play there. Otherwise, Saguaro and Vista Verde are good substitutes. Saguaro may be better than E or WR, but the experince at the privates makes it your first choice.

Personally, I thought Desert Mountain Renegade was terrific for the variety. Very different than any other course I have played.

[Jud_T]

Mike,

I've only played Vista Verde, Talking Stick North, and Saquaro in the PHX area.  I would rank them TSN, Saguaro, VV.  I love TSN because no one does green to tee transitions better than Bill Coore and the routing also provides a ton of variety in length, hole shape, etc.

For other reasons as well, Talking Stick North feels like the beginners guide to understanding golf architecture and a course that any fan of golf architecture must see.  

Ben,

Although it's not the popular opinion here or in the rankings (funny coincidence?), I agree completely.  Talking Stick North is a must play for any GCA fan.  The bunkering is brilliant and there's a lot more going on around the greens than it appears at first glance.  This is probably the only course I've ever really enjoyed playing from 7100 yards...  

[Sven Nilsen]

Can't go wrong with either of TSN and WKP-S, WKP may have a bit more interest because of the elevation, but TSN is nothing to smirk at.

I second the Blackstone recommendation, especially if you can play 36.  There are not many places better to spend a day out there, and if you can get access its a great value compared to what you'd pay to play the high-end resorts.

[Mike Jansen]

Well guys thanks again!  Looks like WeKoPa Sagauro is a favorite amongst all, and Vista Verde is something to look into.

Mark S. - to answer your 'logistics' question... "close" to the hotel is everything within 30 min, the others were 40-60 min.  I'll be across the street from Scottsdale Stadium, where apparently the Karsten course is the closest listed... Arizona CC and Papago are the closest otherwise.

[Matt_Ward]

One other option that gets little mention but is walkable and free from housing clutter -- the Outlaw layout at Desert Mtn.

Gets little mention but Nicklaus did a fine job -- firm and fast and minus the debatable par-4 10th -- is most enjoyable.

[A.G._Crockett]

Another vote for Saguaro as an absolute, 100% must play.  I liked the Cholla course as well; great 36 hole day.

[Jerry Kluger]

Vista Verde is usually very well priced while WKP courses can be pricey, same thing for Dinosaur course which I have heard good things about but pricey too.  Best value is to walk at TPC but not the tournament course. 

Here's a fun little secret - go to Jerry's Golf Balls.  They get balls from the maintenance crews at the desert courses where golfers are afraid of the snakes, etc.  - Balls are almost brand new and a substantial savings. It is really close to Scottsdale. Thousands of balls - all types. 

[Mark Smolens]

Vista Verde is usually very well priced while WKP courses can be pricey, same thing for Dinosaur course which I have heard good things about but pricey too.  Best value is to walk at TPC but not the tournament course. 

Here's a fun little secret - go to Jerry's Golf Balls.  They get balls from the maintenance crews at the desert courses where golfers are afraid of the snakes, etc.  - Balls are almost brand new and a substantial savings. It is really close to Scottsdale. Thousands of balls - all types. 

Jerry, I had to chuckle. I played with a member at Troon North once. He walked, and every hole wandered thru the desert in areas he knew that he'd find balls. He gave me a dozen Pro-Vs, practically new, and kept 2 dozen for himself. 1 round. He said he'd been bitten by rattlers 3 or 4 times tho. . . not sure a golf ball is worth that.

[Jerry Kluger]

Mark: My son loves it - they literally have thousands of golf balls sorted by brand and quality - they also get the newest balls within a short time after they are released and usually with the logo of one of the exclusive private clubs.

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