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Tim Martin

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Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2011, 04:35:41 PM »
I understand Google's value as a business, I don't understand Facebook's.My real point was that if I'm going to buy something from, or sell something to, you I'm going to do it in person if it has any real value. I'm saying this in the context of Jeff's thread by the way, I get Ebay and Amazon's model as well but I wouldn't buy a house through either.

Jim,

Why go to a store to buy anything if you can do it online?  I just bought my first car over the internet and saved several thousand in the process. I thought you'd never want to buy shoes online but a female business associate swears by Zappos.  Most people do the majority of their real-estate shopping online, only going to see a chosen handful of interesting properties.
Jud-There is quite a distinction between personal shopping and two parties meeting over golf/dinner to discuss and possibly ink a large business deal. No one disputes that buying a pair of shoes could easily be accomplished via "Zappos".

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2011, 04:39:39 PM »
I'm saying this in the context of Jeff's thread by the way, I get Ebay and Amazon's model as well but I wouldn't buy a house through either.


Please note my earlier disclaimer. My comments are in the context of Jeff's question...to paraphrase - "is the digital age going to hurt the golf business do to reduced deal making?"

I say NO and my only evidence so far is that the deals you guys are all talking about were never consumated on a golf course anyway.

JESII

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Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2011, 04:40:08 PM »
Tim made my point.

Jud_T

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Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2011, 04:42:07 PM »
Tim and Jim,

People used to say the same thing about buying and selling futures, stocks and bonds....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2011, 04:50:21 PM »
Maybe, there's clearly something there. Are you saying the digital age will cause major problems for the golf industry?

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2011, 04:57:14 PM »
No, I'm just playing devil's advocate.  But I do question how many of today's kids will seek out 4 hours away from all the overstimulation of the world...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2011, 04:59:29 PM »
Tim and Jim,

People used to say the same thing about buying and selling futures, stocks and bonds....

Quite a leap from financial instruments to golf courses. And I say that as one who has a good bit of knowledge of the former.

Smartphones will likely have an impact, as will social networking. It will probably just be more lateral than positive or negative. Maybe a phone will have good enough picture quality that Tom D can see what his associates are doing - positive. Maybe someone will pick his architect based on his Facebook likes - negative...

No, I'm just playing devil's advocate.  But I do question how many of today's kids will seek out 4 hours away from all the overstimulation of the world...

Jud, they just need to hit that one shot that opens their eyes... :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Paul OConnor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2011, 05:03:59 PM »
Actually, the interesting back-story of Hillcrest closing , and that Twin Orchard will be picking up maybe a third of their members, is that both of these clubs were/are predominately Jewish cubs, and that the same scenario unwound on the south side a couple years ago when Ravisloe closed and most of the members moved to Idlewild.  Both those clubs were historically Jewish clubs, although at Idlewild more than half the pre-merger membership was non-Jewish.   Maybe there is just a shortage of Jewish golfers, or those potential younger members have chosen to join clubs that do not have strict religious affiliations.  As the religious intolerance barriers at other clubs drops, either from a more enlightened membership, or out of economic necessity, the homogenous religious club may be a relic of an earlier more intolerant era.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2011, 05:17:53 PM »
Tim and Jim,

People used to say the same thing about buying and selling futures, stocks and bonds....

Jud-Buying and selling futures, stocks and bonds was and with some frequency still is done over the phone for trading of personal accounts. Although you would certainly know far better than I would I imagine that most if not all institutional transactions are accomplished via computer.Regardless of which method is used or preferred there is no face to face meeting required for said transaction on the individual side. I never needed to play golf with a stockbroker/have dinner to effectuate this type of purchase so I don`t see the relevance. As an aside I would imagine as a municipal bond hedge fund manager part of your due diligence in selecting securities for your fund involves meeting with city treasurers/controllers before large placements are made to your portfolio and that these personal relationships are important in many cases and can`t merely be supplanted with computer/social networking vehicles.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2011, 05:31:51 PM »
Tim,

I'd be surprised if Jud did that.  Maybe he does.  I represented some municipalities in bond offerings and rarely were we meeting with potential downstream investors.  Usually just the underwriter and depending on the size of the offering, only at the closing dinner.

I'm not as bullish on Facebook as others are.  It is a complete waste of time and people are getting tired of the privacy issues.  That being said, I am very bullish on social networking, generally.





I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2011, 05:40:48 PM »
The OP seemed to ask if the ease of doing business remotely and quickly will undermine the value of golf to business deals.

I'd say that those looking for fast deals and fresh meat would not have had much interest in networking on the golf course. Those looking to build and consolidate relationships always did have and, IMO, will continue to.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2011, 06:06:52 PM »
FYI- for the record I'm not in munis, but Government bonds, futures, options, derivatives etc....So what you guys are really saying is that in order to sell personality, confidence and trust and build a client relationship you need face time... Believe me I'm all in favor of building friendships on the golf course for business or otherwise, I just wonder how much of it will be condoned/expensed even after the economy's booming again....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2011, 06:31:27 PM »
last I checked, municipalities were governments..... ;) ;D

Business will get done on the golf course, it just might not be with the guy sitting next to you in the cart.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 06:36:08 PM by JC Jones »
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2011, 06:40:52 PM »
If these gadgets are so helpful they should allow someone more time to be on the golf course.   Jeff, I remember when the internet first became main streamish. I thought airlines would suffer because business travel would disappear. Well clearly that was wrong. Logical but wrong. F2F is still how the majority of B2B is done.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2011, 06:40:56 PM »
If you call a gaggle of blowhard spendthrift sandal-schleppers government.  Oh, wait a minute....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2011, 06:44:35 PM »
I must be younger than I think I am, not only do  I use facebook, but I have never used a golf course for business purposes. 
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2011, 06:49:11 PM »
Actually, Richard, no it's not like your grandpa saying he doesn't need a PC.  Businesspeople, and even retirees, need PCs for good and productive reasons.  They are business tools.  They're productive.    They save time.  

Conversely, Facebook - and you said it yourself - lets you know more about your friends.  What you're basically saying is that it's an unproductive tool to screw around during time you have to waste.  Facebook is, literally, a waste of time.    There's a big difference.  

Shivas,

I think you are underselling the strength of facebook here.  It is an effective means of communication and organisation.  Have a look at the stats on how much young people are emailing.  They find it much easier to co-ordinate their lives on facebook than by email.  It is no secret that Facebook is lookin to try to make emails redundant.  They will do that by offering a more efficient product.  

Anything can be used 2 waste time, not just facebook.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2011, 06:51:27 PM »
FYI- for the record I'm not in munis, but Government bonds, futures, options, derivatives etc....So what you guys are really saying is that in order to sell personality, confidence and trust and build a client relationship you need face time... Believe me I'm all in favor of building friendships on the golf course for business or otherwise, I just wonder how much of it will be condoned/expensed even after the economy's booming again....
Jud-Thanks for the reply. Sorry if I misrepresented why type of hedge fund you are involved with. It seems that we are on the same page to some degree. You are probably correct in that companies are certainly going to be more stringent when it comes to these types of expenses.

JC- You may be right that investors are dealing with underwriters who are clearly desirous of placing the offerings. My point is that a personal relationship would probably benefit the investor and the municipality. On your second point I agree about Facebook and the privacy issues, way too much info for my tastes.

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2011, 08:04:01 PM »
How does Facebook generate revenue?

Take what google knows about you and what advertising companies know about you and multiple it by 400.  That's where facebook has its value.

Think about what facebook knows about the users:  their friends, things they like, what they wear, what they buy, where they shop, when they shop, where they live, who they're related to.....etc.

It knows everything about you.  You know why?   Because we're all telling it.

It wouldn't shock me if in 30 years we find out that the CIA started facebook.

But, to answer the question at hand, I think IPhones (and other electronic devices) have made it much easier for me to connect while on the golf course and connect with other like-minded golfing folks.  For me, it has made the game more accessible.  God bless technology.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 08:05:42 PM by Ryan Potts »

Carl Rogers

Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2011, 08:23:02 PM »
Who are the real golfers in all of this discussion??

Does the game really matter to this demographic or is it just another 'multi-task'?

I am just a 57 year old phuddy-duddy.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2011, 02:05:37 AM »
I don't think it has anything to do with iPhones or Facebook per se, but is just a recognition that golf takes up a LOT of time, and with more and more options for people to spend their scarce free time, they may not choose to devote an entire day to working out a deal on the golf course.  Its just as easy to work out a deal via text messages while you are each doing your own thing.  Face time is a baby boomer concept, and those guys are starting to retire...

If people who are only golfers because it helps them in business stop being golfers because it is no longer necessary, is this really a loss to the game?
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Jason Walker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2011, 10:54:20 AM »
The Blackberry (or whatever smart phone you use) has saved my golfing life.  If it weren't for the ability to read and respond to email and return urgent and semi-urgent phone calls I'd never be able to get out and play.  I still do plenty of business and entertaining on the course, but if it weren't for the ability to have that device with me it would be far less, and I'm positive my customers and business partners wouldn't have the time either.






John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2011, 11:20:16 AM »
The Blackberry (or whatever smart phone you use) has saved my golfing life.  If it weren't for the ability to read and respond to email and return urgent and semi-urgent phone calls I'd never be able to get out and play.  I still do plenty of business and entertaining on the course, but if it weren't for the ability to have that device with me it would be far less, and I'm positive my customers and business partners wouldn't have the time either.


Exactly, but face to face calling could be the end of us unless I can sell my office background app to Apple. 

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2011, 11:44:36 AM »

Exactly, but face to face calling could be the end of us unless I can sell my office background app to Apple. 

Beta Test, while you were away at Dismal.
 

Greg McMullin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2011, 01:25:14 PM »
would anyone happen to know if there are any statistics showing the golf participation rates for ages 12-18 and 18-25 covering the last 10 years?

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