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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« on: January 12, 2011, 11:26:30 AM »

On the Chicago thread, there was a link to an article about Hillcrest closing, which I read.  Following it were comments from readers, and I took note of this one:

Anthony M. wrote:
This should be no surprise, in general. Golf courses and clubs went through the same period of ecstatic growth, as in housing, that our entire nation experienced since 1990. It is unfortunate that some older clubs are dropping by the wayside. However, they are not as attractive to the next generation, as small as it has become for golf.
In addition, deals are global and fast. Younger business people do not want to spend 4 to 6 hours on the course and then a few more in the clubhouse to cultivate deals. They can get a lot more done over their iPads, Blackberrys and so forth in much less time.



Is this true, or are the country clubs still the place to cultivate business?  They survived the reduced tax breaks back in the 80's that many predicted would result in their demise.  But, can they survive the computer age and be relevant?  Or can business survive being so non perosnal?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2011, 11:32:29 AM »
Jeff, it is not the iPhone that is changing the world. It is Social Network that is changing the world. And it is not getting less personal, it is getting more personal.

Today, I know far more about my friends and colleagues through their social network update than I have ever known before. That kind of digital relationship is going to filter in more and more into business environments. How golf fits into that world, I am not sure...

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2011, 11:42:09 AM »
Jeff, it is not the iPhone that is changing the world. It is Social Network that is changing the world. And it is not getting less personal, it is getting more personal.

Today, I know far more about my friends and colleagues through their social network update than I have ever known before. That kind of digital relationship is going to filter in more and more into business environments. How golf fits into that world, I am not sure...

Dear Richard,

     When are you going to accept my Facebook friend request?

Sincerely,
J.C. Jones
-----------------------
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Peter Pallotta

Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2011, 12:20:23 PM »
I don't know Jeff -- but as Shivas says, to me the social network is anything but.  I think that when people don't need to gather together and work and live with eachother and depend on eachother, they never really learn how to gather together and live and work and depend on eachother; and then it isn't very long before they forget why they should work and live and depend on eachother; and pretty soon they are beyond all caring about such questions. Which means that golf clubs will be affected.

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer.  Those are the thoughts that came to mind.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 12:25:46 PM »
I don't know Jeff -- but as Shivas says, to me the social network is anything but.  I think that when people don't need to gather together and work and live with eachother and depend on eachother, they never really learn how to gather together and live and work and depend on eachother; and then it isn't very long before they forget why they should work and live and depend on eachother; and pretty soon they are beyond all caring about such questions. Which means that golf clubs will be affected.

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer.  Those are the thoughts that came to mind.

But don't you kinda feel those are people looking for an excuse not to leave the house anyway? As much as I enjoy this site, I'd rather be out playing golf. I don't see any social networking changing that.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 12:26:30 PM »
Pete,

I tend to agree, especially since we have great examples of how people tend to treat each other on the internet, vs face to face.

When you think about it, golf may have played a small part of it, gradually transferring the living emphasis from the friendly front porch to the private back yard view, although you can argue which is cause and which is effect.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike Sweeney

Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2011, 12:43:05 PM »


Is that moderate enough ?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 01:16:39 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2011, 12:52:47 PM »
"You guys are really missing the big picture."

Man, how could we be so dense?  Good thing Mike's here to clarify matters!

Everything in moderation, my brethren.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2011, 03:23:57 PM »

But don't you kinda feel those are people looking for an excuse not to leave the house anyway? As much as I enjoy this site, I'd rather be out playing golf. I don't see any social networking changing that.

But you're not doing that, George. You're not out playing golf. Or at least I thought you said you played only once last year. So what does this mean? I haven't the slightest idea.  Just an observation, that's all.

This site talks lists a quite a bit, it might be a fun exercise to ask posters to come up with their GCA.com Surf & Turf Quotient (S/T = X). Posters give an estimate of how much time in a year they average on this site vs how much time they would estimate they spent on the golf course.  Then rank em from one end S heavy to the other end T heavy.  Riveting stuff, I tell you!

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2011, 03:39:48 PM »
Jeff, it is not the iPhone that is changing the world. It is Social Network that is changing the world. And it is not getting less personal, it is getting more personal.

Today, I know far more about my friends and colleagues through their social network update than I have ever known before. That kind of digital relationship is going to filter in more and more into business environments. How golf fits into that world, I am not sure...


Richard,

Other than this site and personal emails, I do very little online communication so please tell me how it is that you looking at my facebook page helps me get to know you better?

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2011, 03:44:35 PM »
Jim, it really does not matter if you do little on-line communication. That is kinda like my grandfather used to say how he doesn't need a PC. Social Network has exploded with under 35 generations. This is the future. The participation rate among under 35 with social network is astoundingly high and is the reason why Facebook IPO will be as big as Google IPO was.

I know far more about my friends and what they are up to with Facebook then I ever did before. That is only going to get more and more comprehensive as today's kids grow up and become adults.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2011, 03:49:58 PM »
Whew!  I am so glad we didn't have camera phones, youtube and facebook when I was growing up.   Its bad enough that I can still remember some of stupid crap that I did, I don't need it available on demand.  :)

Brian Marion

Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2011, 03:52:53 PM »

On the Chicago thread, there was a link to an article about Hillcrest closing, which I read.  Following it were comments from readers, and I took note of this one:

Anthony M. wrote:
This should be no surprise, in general. Golf courses and clubs went through the same period of ecstatic growth, as in housing, that our entire nation experienced since 1990. It is unfortunate that some older clubs are dropping by the wayside. However, they are not as attractive to the next generation, as small as it has become for golf.
In addition, deals are global and fast. Younger business people do not want to spend 4 to 6 hours on the course and then a few more in the clubhouse to cultivate deals. They can get a lot more done over their iPads, Blackberrys and so forth in much less time.


Is this true, or are the country clubs still the place to cultivate business?  They survived the reduced tax breaks back in the 80's that many predicted would result in their demise.  But, can they survive the computer age and be relevant?  Or can business survive being so non perosnal?

Like all things, some clubs must change the way they do business so that they can appeal to potential members and even current members. Notice I said some not all, as each club must decide for itself what service model it wants to be and how that will affect their business.

The previous model was bring in a client, golf, wine, dine, do some business on the course but, the times are a'changing, decision makers do not have the luxury of 6 hours of "in the dark" time playing golf and all the travel and meals that may surround that days activity. Couple that with a "no cell phone policy" and you are really asking for trouble in recruiting the modern younger potential member.

So, if a club wants to be a place where business gets done, embrace wifi and smart phones on the course and market yourself as being such. If you want to be blue blood old school golf, then be that way just know how that will affect your potential client base.

Case in point, our club has multiple wireless routers so I can sit and work on the laptop while eating or watching the course. (I'm not doing that now!). We do not have a cell phone policy, it's left up to each individual group of players and anyone abusing their fellow golfers would get the hint pretty fast.

We are also in the process of upgrading systems and internet/web/social media presence. A big part of that upgrade is member online management of their own activities. Tee times, dining reservations, etc. The pro shop and F&B will still call back and give the personal touch but it can't be ignored that today's members and tomorrow's future members are online and engaged that way.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 03:55:04 PM by Brian Marion »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2011, 03:53:00 PM »
If Gen-Z can't live without facebook, a lot of clubs are going to have to rethink their no cellphone policy.  Or maybe the refuge from the wired in world will become even more valuable for some....Now if I could only get the kid off the XBOX long enough to work on his short game!
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2011, 03:56:08 PM »
I understand Google's value as a business, I don't understand Facebook's.My real point was that if I'm going to buy something from, or sell something to, you I'm going to do it in person if it has any real value. I'm saying this in the context of Jeff's thread by the way, I get Ebay and Amazon's model as well but I wouldn't buy a house through either.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2011, 03:59:19 PM »
But you're not doing that, George. You're not out playing golf. Or at least I thought you said you played only once last year. So what does this mean? I haven't the slightest idea.  Just an observation, that's all.

Life circumstances, doesn't have anything to do with the social networking. I have tons of invites to play!

Hey Jim, I just listed a bridge on ebay, you might want to check it out! :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2011, 04:02:58 PM »
Facebook has a potential to be even more valuable than Google.

Facebook is what teenagers and college kids check the most (after texting) everyday, even more than Google. Facebook is how they organize their social life. Any site that has that kind of attraction is going to be very very valuable to anyone who is looking to get exposure (i.e. sell their goods).

You bring up a point about buying a house. You may not buy a house (actually that is not far out of line) through Facebook, but you may find your next realtor through Facebook and that realtor may keep you up-to-date on your possible housing purchase through Facebook.

Tech companies have been trying information push model for a very very long time (unlike Google where it is information pull) and none have succeeded until Facebook. This is a very very big deal.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2011, 04:06:13 PM »
I forgive anyone who feels as if they may have offended me through what they have said to me, about me or around me on this or any other social network.  I do not ask or require your forgiveness in return but only wish that you may continue your life with as clean a conscience as I possess today.

To quote my favorite critic OW: “Nothing makes one so vain as being told one is a sinner. Conscience makes egotists of us all.”

Come back and post, your absence only feeds my vanity.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2011, 04:06:47 PM »
As important as social networking has become deals will continue to get done on the golf course. Most individuals/companies are not going to ink deals without actually meeting someone first. Although Facebook is a brilliant social networking medium the level of disclosure is what turns me off. I am really not interested if a friend of a friend of a friend had a colonoscopy last Thursday.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2011, 04:09:36 PM »
How does Facebook generate revenue?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2011, 04:10:19 PM »
My 15 year old son is a leader much like me.  He recently deleted his Facebook account and through his courage more will follow.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2011, 04:14:51 PM »
How does Facebook generate revenue?

advertising

Paul OConnor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2011, 04:17:19 PM »
Shivas,
Facebooks' books, you've seen them?

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2011, 04:18:17 PM »
How does Facebook generate revenue?

Advertising and generating website flow.

They just turned a profit for the first time in FY 2009, after a years of big deficits. I've also seen their financials and the sky is the limit with them. Not to mention they are barely in some of the world's largest markets: China and Russia.
H.P.S.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do IPhones Impact Golf's Future?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2011, 04:24:33 PM »
I understand Google's value as a business, I don't understand Facebook's.My real point was that if I'm going to buy something from, or sell something to, you I'm going to do it in person if it has any real value. I'm saying this in the context of Jeff's thread by the way, I get Ebay and Amazon's model as well but I wouldn't buy a house through either.

Jim,

Why go to a store to buy anything if you can do it online?  I just bought my first car over the internet and saved several thousand in the process. I thought you'd never want to buy shoes online but a female business associate swears by Zappos.  Most people do the majority of their real-estate shopping online, only going to see a chosen handful of interesting properties.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

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