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Tom_Doak

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Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« on: January 10, 2011, 06:47:49 PM »
These are the people I think about most often when designing a course, or just the people who I would put in charge of the game if I wanted to protect it from ruin. 

Please note that my list does not include clients, nor associates past or present.  Several in each category would be candidates for my list, but if I included one, I'd have to include them all.  It's presented alphabetically, of course.


John Ashworth - If I was the president of golf, John would be the Secretary of Keeping the Game Cool.

Archie and Sheila Baird - You could say Sheila was born into golf -- she is Willie Park's grand-daughter.  Archie, a retired veterinarian and renowned golf collector, is the keenest golfer I know; he loves to play foursomes matches, and he wins way more than his share by hitting a 140-yard wood shot close for a net birdie.  He's my living reminder that a course needs to be fun for players of his age and ability.  Secretary of Education, thanks to Archie's little museum at Gullane.

Bill Coore - The more I'm around him, the more I'm humbled.

Ben Crenshaw - From the time I wrote to him at age 18 to ask how to pursue this career, he has treated me like I was his younger cousin, letting me tag along in practice rounds to talk about courses [and see Seve up close!].  When he took us out to Austin Golf Club last year, I asked on the way out how often he gets out there when he's in town, and he quickly responded, "Every day."  Ben is already the Secretary of Defense of the Game ... I think W. appointed him.

Pete and Alice Dye - I owe them my whole career; they allowed me to watch and learn and they never held anything back.  But it's more than that.  Pete's enthusiasm for the work of golf course construction is the same example I try to set for everyone around me, and his battle of wits with great players was a master class in design.

Kim Gardner - The reason I pay just as much attention to how women will play my courses as how the men will -- I never met anyone who loved to play golf more than Kim.  She had her sights on the LPGA, but she only got as far as a Curtis Cup player, US Amateur semi-finalist, and the Futures Tour; now living happily ever after as a club professional teaching kids the game.  She's also the one who gave me the title for my next book -- "Americans are going to ruin golf."

Woody Millen - My favorite member of the blue-blood, old school golf crowd.  He was the project chairman at Piping Rock when I did the work there for Mr. Dye 25 years ago; we had dinner and talked golf every night for two months straight.  Still participates on the board at Palmetto Golf Club.

Brian Morgan - The first great golf course photographer, and a true globetrotter.

Fred Muller - Now in his thirty-second year at Crystal Downs, Fred's hospitality to a college student in 1982 is the main reason I live where I do today.  In this list, he also represents the many other great club pros whom I have met over the years -- guys who were not only good players and teachers, but who could fix clubs and keep the green committee on the straight and narrow.  I don't get the sense that so many of the young guys today love golf in as many ways.

Ken Nice - The best line I ever heard about him came from Dave Wilber, who said if an architect thinks of his golf courses as his children, then Ken is the guy you hope your daughter will marry.  Secretary of Agriculture, naturally.

Harrie Perkins - Jim Urbina calls him the original Martian, just a guy who appeared out of the blue who loved everything about golf courses and wanted to hang around us a bit to understand it all.  His idea of a great vacation is to go from Texas to the President's Putter at Rye, in January, just to watch.

Bill Shean - When he hosted me at Butler National, back when I was in college, Bill was the classic club champion type player who wasn't able to play at the next level; he was just too humble to believe he belonged.  Eventually, he went to Bob Rotella, who advised him to get a bit of an edge, and he wound up setting the amateur course record at Pine Valley, and then winning the U.S. Senior Amateur.  Twice.  Occasionally I will meet someone who doesn't like him, and I know at once that he kicked their butts in competition, because otherwise he is still one of the nicest people in the world.

Dick Youngscap - I wish he'd been my client, but since he wasn't, I can include him here.  His background as a building architect gives him a unique perspective on the client-architect relationship, but most of all, he has succeeded where others fail because he is much more practical than any of the rest.  Secretary of the Treasury -- and I wish to God he was really it, instead of the numbskull we've got in there now.

Those no longer with us, who might otherwise be on this list: 

Peter Dobereiner
Heather Farr
Jack May 

Tim Bert

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 06:52:45 PM »
Tom - Care to elaborate with an anecdote or two regarding Bill Coore's inclusion on the list?  I think you expressed so much with very few words there but it would be interesting and insightful to hear some examples.

Michael Whitaker

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 07:25:15 PM »
Tom - Woody Millen is indeed very old school blue-blood... but, a cool guy to spend time with! The first time I met Woody he reminded me of one of those old woolly looking Scottish caddies with his driving cap, upturned collar, and unfiltered cigarette hanging from his lip. I mentioned this to one of Woody's friends and he said, "Oh, please do tell Woody, it will make his day!" Small world!
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Bill_McBride

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 07:27:57 PM »
Tom - Woody Millen is indeed very old school blue-blood... but, a cool guy to spend time with! The first time I met Woody he reminded me of one of those old woolly looking Scottish caddies with his driving cap, upturned collar, and unfiltered cigarette hanging from his lip. I mentioned this to one of Woody's friends and he said, "Oh, please do tell Woody, it will make his day!" Small world!


Mike, wasn't Woody one of our hosts at the Palmetto Dixie Cup?  If so, great guy. I loved the dinner at that club.

JC Jones

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2011, 07:30:31 PM »
Tom - Woody Millen is indeed very old school blue-blood... but, a cool guy to spend time with! The first time I met Woody he reminded me of one of those old woolly looking Scottish caddies with his driving cap, upturned collar, and unfiltered cigarette hanging from his lip. I mentioned this to one of Woody's friends and he said, "Oh, please do tell Woody, it will make his day!" Small world!


Mike,

Woody was quite the host at last year's Dixie Cup.  I remember talking to him outside of the Green Boundary Club and lapping up all the great stories he was telling.  I wish I could remember the funny remark he made about Tom Paul.

Tom,

If my memory serves me, I believe he only referred to you as "Tommy" anytime he was talking about you.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Padraig Dooley

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2011, 07:33:32 PM »

Fred Muller - Now in his thirty-second year at Crystal Downs, Fred's hospitality to a college student in 1982 is the main reason I live where I do today.  In this list, he also represents the many other great club pros whom I have met over the years -- guys who were not only good players and teachers, but who could fix clubs and keep the green committee on the straight and narrow.  I don't get the sense that so many of the young guys today love golf in as many ways.


Tom, I have to second that Fred is a great guy.
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

Mike_Young

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2011, 08:25:42 PM »
Tom,
Did you ever meet Billy Joe Patton....he died last week but if you had met him I would have thought he would have made your list....

Also, Fred M told me that when you met him he was the coolest dude you had ever met....and you stayed around to see if he could rub off.... ;)
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2011, 08:57:48 PM »
Mike:

No, I never met Mr. Patton.


JC:

Pete Dye and family still refer to me as "Tommy" also.  But, so did my mom, since my Dad was also a Tom, with a different middle name. 

The first time Ben Crenshaw called my house, he didn't say who he was at first, and my mom wasn't sure if the call was for me or my dad.  She didn't want to use "Tommy" in case it was a friend of mine from school, so she asked if he wanted "Young Tom or Old Tom".  Ben was still laughing about that when I got on the phone.

At least half of the people I've listed knew me before I turned 21.  They gave me a great head start, and I'm glad that they are still around to remind me of my humble beginnings.

Bob Jenkins

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2011, 09:13:18 PM »

Tom,

Your opening post is one of the coolest postings I have read on GCA and I just want to thank you.

It shows me that you have a huge appreciation for those who have helped you along the way, mostly anonymously and that says a lot about you. I may be saying more than I should but many of us who are not in the business (and I am sure many who are in the business) appreciate your contribution to this site in a big way. Thank you.

The listing of Favorite People in Golf can probably go a long way with a lot of other on this site and is a great idea.

Bob J

Scott Warren

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2011, 09:21:57 PM »
A great list Tom. Thanks for sharing and thanks to George Pazin for having the idea for these lists so that stuff like this could come out.

Tim Bert is right - So much meaning in so few words re: Bill Coore.

Matt Kardash

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2011, 09:33:54 PM »
Tom,
Have Pete or Alice Dye seen any of your work, even so much as a picture? if so have they had anything to say about it?
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

JNC Lyon

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011, 09:39:18 PM »
John Ashworth seems to be this very elusive character in the world of golf.  He doesn't get a ton of mentions on this site, or anywhere else for that matter.  Yet every once in awhile his name comes up in an interesting way.  Tom Doak, didn't you mention that he found the hole that is now the 10th at Renaissance?  I know he spent some time along the East Lothian coast, particularly at Fidra, the island that was some inspiration for Treasure Island.  I got the chance to meet him last year at the Walker Cup, and he seemed like a great fellow who really takes the game seriously.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Tom_Doak

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2011, 09:52:56 PM »
Tom,
Have Pete or Alice Dye seen any of your work, even so much as a picture? if so have they had anything to say about it?

Matt:

To the best of my knowledge, the only time Pete Dye has seen one of my original courses was taking a quick peek at High Pointe when he was at Grand Traverse Resort many years ago.  However, I have gotten some nice notes from Alice and Pete in recent years regarding the awards for Pacific Dunes, Old Macdonald, etc.; they have seen the pictures in the magazines like everyone else.  I would love to show them around one or more of my courses, but asking an 85-year-old gentleman to fly somewhere to feed one's ego would be a bit gauche, don't you think?

They have seen a bunch of the consulting work we have done.  They were both at Yeamans Hall a few years back, and several members regaled them with stories of how Jim Urbina and I had fixed up the course, to the point that Alice wrote me a note about it.


Mac Plumart

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2011, 09:57:30 PM »
Thanks for this list, Tom.

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Shane Wright

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2011, 09:59:42 PM »
I second the sentiments here.  George, thank you for the great idea of these lists. Tom, thank you for sharing such a great tribute.


Matt Kardash

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011, 10:06:28 PM »
Tom,
Have Pete or Alice Dye seen any of your work, even so much as a picture? if so have they had anything to say about it?

Matt:

To the best of my knowledge, the only time Pete Dye has seen one of my original courses was taking a quick peek at High Pointe when he was at Grand Traverse Resort many years ago.  However, I have gotten some nice notes from Alice and Pete in recent years regarding the awards for Pacific Dunes, Old Macdonald, etc.; they have seen the pictures in the magazines like everyone else.  I would love to show them around one or more of my courses, but asking an 85-year-old gentleman to fly somewhere to feed one's ego would be a bit gauche, don't you think?

They have seen a bunch of the consulting work we have done.  They were both at Yeamans Hall a few years back, and several members regaled them with stories of how Jim Urbina and I had fixed up the course, to the point that Alice wrote me a note about it.



I would imagine having Pete and Alice walk one of your courses's with you would mean the world to you though. I hope for you it happens one day.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Tom_Doak

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011, 10:07:46 PM »
John Ashworth seems to be this very elusive character in the world of golf.  He doesn't get a ton of mentions on this site, or anywhere else for that matter.  Yet every once in awhile his name comes up in an interesting way.  Tom Doak, didn't you mention that he found the hole that is now the 10th at Renaissance?  I know he spent some time along the East Lothian coast, particularly at Fidra, the island that was some inspiration for Treasure Island.  I got the chance to meet him last year at the Walker Cup, and he seemed like a great fellow who really takes the game seriously.

JNC:  Elusive is a good word for John A.  Many years ago, he was Michael Murphy's first choice to play the lead in Golf In The Kingdom.  [They are good friends.]  He is a very good player -- played a bit of college golf at Arizona back in the day.  And he hit on Fred Couples and John Cook when they were young, to be the Tour players to represent Ashworth -- two pretty good draft choices.

When he left his company years ago, because he didn't like managing a big company, he sold some of his stock and was going to develop the property that is now Archerfield and The Renaissance Club.  [Actually, he decided to contact us about the job after playing golf with Archie Baird, and asking Archie who would be the best Scottish architect to design a true links course; Archie told him to skip the Scots and call the young Americans who had visited earlier that summer.]  John and a friend, David Thomas, lived in Dirleton for a year trying to organize the permits and investors for the deal, only to have the bigger piece (Archerfield) pulled out from under them by their major investor.

John came back to the USA and founded a new company (Fidra) and grew that until IT got too big.  Now he's back as a creative consultant for Ashworth, but half his time is devoted to thinking about ways to make golf cool.  He's got a magazine he wants to do, among other things.

JNC Lyon

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2011, 10:20:01 PM »
Tom,

Very cool story.  I hope he continues to do new and good things for the game.  As for the magazine, golf needs a magazine that is devoted to something other than equipment and instruction with the occasional architecture piece.  He could find plenty of good writers from this site alone, no?
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2011, 12:33:22 AM »
She's also the one who gave me the title for my next book -- "Americans are going to ruin golf."


Is this really fair when the real blame goes to just a handful of people such as the three architects with the last name Jones?

JNC Lyon

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2011, 12:40:36 AM »
She's also the one who gave me the title for my next book -- "Americans are going to ruin golf."


Is this really fair when the real blame goes to just a handful of people such as the three architects with the last name Jones?

While I think is a classic quote, I'm pretty sure the Jones and Fazio family did not invent buggies or the five-hour round.  Of course, neither did anything to stop those things.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Colin Macqueen

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2011, 01:25:15 AM »
Tom,
A very interesting list.  As an outsider I only knew three of these names, Coore, Crenshaw and Dye.  I was going to ask you why John Ashworth was elected to keep golf "cool" and Googling him I realise (guess?) he must provide sartorial splendour for discerning golfers. I must Google the others.  The other thing that struck me about the list is just how generous these people were with their time and offers of support to you as you forged a career.  An endearing American trait I feel.

Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Tim Martin

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2011, 09:11:09 AM »
I remember being at Landfall in Wilmington N.C. back in the late 80`s and visiting the pro shop after a round on the Dye Course. It was the first place that I ever saw the Ashworth clothing line. The shirts were so different with the geometric patterns and the brushed cotton fabrics. I remember plunking down what was a fair amount of money at the time, at least in my world, for a shirt with a diamond pattern across the front. Not long after I saw Fred Couples wearing a similar one on T.V. and the company`s popularity seemed to explode. Definitely an apt moniker-The Secretary of Keeping the Game Cool. 

Adam Clayman

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2011, 09:29:18 AM »
I agree with JNC. The Jones name may have ruined gca, but, I believe the sports ruin is due to an inherent desire to improve things.

Golf didn't need improving. It was perfect with it's imperfections.

At least that's the feeling I get when I try to put myself into ol' CBM's shoes, back in Chicago, (and New York) back around the Columbian Expo of '93 and going forward.

Tom, Looks like you may have upset a few people by not including them. I know I was shocked I didn't make it the list.  ....  .....   ;)
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Chip Gaskins

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2011, 09:35:49 AM »
Tom

Great list, thanks for the insight.

I have been lucky enough to play with both Fred Muller at Crystal Downs and Bill Shean at Chicago Golf Club, both are fantastic men and true treasures to the game of golf.  Tom you are lucky to call them your personal friends.  Amazing folks to hang around for sure.

Great story about Old Tom and Young Tom....I bet Mr Crenshaw laughed pretty hard at that without your mom having a clue why!

Chip

PCCraig

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Re: Yet Another List - My Favorite People In Golf
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2011, 09:47:34 AM »
Oh yeah, the Jones name ruined golf... ::)

H.P.S.