[Paul OConnor]

Terry,

If a "raft" is two, then you are correct regarding Indian Hills par fours, because that is the exact number that are over 400 yards long.  Most of the par fours are of the 330-385 yard variety, and generally not too tough.  While Indian Hill is certainly beautifully maintained, and is a lovely walk in the park, great golf it is not.  

Sunset Ridge, in my opinion, has some of the finest greens in Chicago.  And you are right about the haircut.  I've played there many times over the years, and last year remarked to my host how I had forgotten how tight it can be off the tee.  He told me I should just hit it straighter.  

Agree on Edgewood Valley.  Played there for the first time last summer.  My first putt on the practice green to a pin in the middle of the greeen rolled 40 feet past and off.  "Oh, that's the way it's gonna be, huh?", I said to myself.  The layout is nice, but the greens are over the top tough for a first timer.  

Not sure which list Conway Farms is on for you, maybe neither, but since I have played it lots, I put it in my top Chicago private courses.  It can play awful tough from the tips, and the conditioning the last few years has been the firmest of any course in the area.  

Cheers.

[Terry Lavin]

Paul,

Thanks for your post.  I thought for sure there were four par 4's over 400 at Indian Hill, but I demur to you.

As for Conway Farms, I liked that course when it opened, but it fell from my esteem the last time I played it because of inconsistent bunkering style (a couple huge revetted bunkers and a Pac Dunes like monster on the 17th hole, totally out of place), the tree and bush plantings in the last ten years (trying to "frame" most of the greens and hide the housing) and the Las Vegas like 18th hole with the cheesy boulders and the fake creek.  Worst of all, however, are the omnipresent cart paths, which is a complete shocker, because the course is walking only!  Ridiculous.  When it opened, it had the feel of an unspoiled wetlands, linksy kind of place, but that's gone nowadays, in my judgment.  Fun to play from the right tees and absolutely a stern test from the tips, however.  There's no question that it is a tough challenge to play.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Not sure which list Conway Farms is on for you, maybe neither, but since I have played it lots, I put it in my top Chicago private courses.  It can play awful tough from the tips, and the conditioning the last few years has been the firmest of any course in the area.  

Paul,
They could start the improvements there by getting rid of that goofy sod faced bunker.  I've only played the course once so I can' fairly judge it, but I if I did I would have to knock them a step or two down for making me hit balls out of the rough on the downslope in front of the range to warm up the day I was there.  The highlight of that day was dinner down the street at Knollwood with you, Terry, Jack, etc.

This list shows the wonderful depth of good golf in Chicago.  It would be impossible to make a list 10 deep like this for Houston - a similar population base.

[PThomas]

i havent played it and i'm certainly not saying it shuld make this list..but didnt Art Hills redo some course in some suburb recently?  if so which course?

[jonathan_becker]

i havent played it and i'm certainly not saying it shuld make this list..but didnt Art Hills redo some course in some suburb recently?  if so which course?

ruth lake

[Sam Morrow]

Not sure which list Conway Farms is on for you, maybe neither, but since I have played it lots, I put it in my top Chicago private courses.  It can play awful tough from the tips, and the conditioning the last few years has been the firmest of any course in the area.  

Paul,
They could start the improvements there by getting rid of that goofy sod faced bunker.  I've only played the course once so I can' fairly judge it, but I if I did I would have to knock them a step or two down for making me hit balls out of the rough on the downslope in front of the range to warm up the day I was there.  The highlight of that day was dinner down the street at Knollwood with you, Terry, Jack, etc.

This list shows the wonderful depth of good golf in Chicago.  It would be impossible to make a list 10 deep like this for Houston - a similar population base.

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[Terry Lavin]

i havent played it and i'm certainly not saying it shuld make this list..but didnt Art Hills redo some course in some suburb recently?  if so which course?

He redid Ruth Lake some time back.  My sense of propriety prevents further comment, Paul, but I have it on good authority (the golf pro told me) that you rated it for GW last summer, so what are your specific thoughts about the track?

[JR Potts]

Ruth Lake - I think it's pretty good with a few bad holes.  A friend of mine who would have to recuse himself if I were ever in the appellate court thinks otherwise. 

That said, I never played it pre-Art Hills.

[PThomas]

i havent played it and i'm certainly not saying it shuld make this list..but didnt Art Hills redo some course in some suburb recently?  if so which course?

He redid Ruth Lake some time back.  My sense of propriety prevents further comment, Paul, but I have it on good authority (the golf pro told me) that you rated it for GW last summer, so what are your specific thoughts about the track?

Terry, i was thinking of a different course, but i certainly could be confused..

Ruth Lake was nothing out of the ordinary and although I have only played 3 of the courses on your list , i can see why it didnt make your list as i've heard good things about 5 of the ones i've played..I have never heard any discussion about Indian Hill and the same for Medinah 2

and I wonder if Butterfield might , in some people's eyes, belong on simply the "10 Best " list in CHicagoland and not on your "Hidden " list...if not know perhaps in the future when more people play it

[John Kavanaugh]

I've only played the course once so I can' fairly judge it, but I if I did I would have to knock them a step or two down for making me hit balls out of the rough on the downslope in front of the range to warm up the day I was there.  

Private courses should tell all visitors that their range is closed.  Brad Klein once recommended that we all hit balls out of the rough on the downslope of the range, I think they were doing you a favor.

[Matthew Sander]

Paul,

Could you be thinking of Ivanhoe? I think they had a renovation (and/or added 9 holes) by Hills about 6 or 7 years ago.

[PCCraig]

Terry:

A great list, a few of my thoughts below:

Top Ten Hidden Private Club Gems in Chicagoland

1. Exmoor:  Just a terrific golf course on a jagged edged piece of property in Highland Park.  It's a much better track than its neighbor, Bob O'Link, which gets most of the chatter.  This is a Ross/Prichard special, in the mold of Skokie and Beverly.  It's not nearly as formidable as either of those courses, but it's plenty difficult, interesting and demanding.  It has a pseudo-Redan par three that's just diabolical and a beautiful looking 18th hole that ends with a great view of their West Wing lookalike clubhouse.

I haven't played Exmoor since they've redone the course but I remember some nice holes there. This does fit the mold of your list as it doesn't get much attention to be honest.

2.  Butterfield:  Even before the recent Steve Smyers renovation, Butterfield was one of those clubs that nobody really talked up, because it was only known as a pretty tight Oakbrook area community club located near the beastly Butler.  Smyers' renovation just might put it on the map, although there's the typical carping by a certain percentage of the membership bemoaning the bunkers, mounding and internal contouring on the greens, not to mention the fact that four or so of the 27 holes feature rectangular greens.  Too many angles for the Micks with Money crowd I guess!

I played here a few times when I was in high school with a family friend and remember liking it, but I can't remember too many individual holes. I would be really curious to see what Smyers did with the property after seeing his work at somewhat nearby OFCC.

4. LaGrange:  This is a Bendelow/Langford/Mark Mungeam offering in the western suburbs.  They did host a Women's Open about twenty years or so ago, but it's still under the radar.  Mungeam is the architect who redid Olympia North in advance of the Open and you'll see reminiscent bunker shaping at LaGrange, but on a smaller scale.  They have a phenomenal short par 4 (#12?) that is probably only second to Shoreacres #11 in that category.  A great test of golf on a small plot of pretty flat land.

Played a high school tournament here once and remember loving it after posing a good score the pictures I've seen of the renovated course look really solid though.

6.  Indian Hill:  Home to the Murray brothers in the caddying days, this bit of Blue-blood Americana is quite possibly the hardest "short" course you'll find in Chicago.  I'd send them Pete Dye's chainsaws, Thunder and Lightning, if I thought they'd use them, but they love their willows and silver maples up there in La-di-dah Winnetka, I guess.  The par 3's and most of the par 5's are short, but they have a raft of stout par 4 holes.  It's on a small piece of land surrounded by $5 million dollar homes of the social ruling class, but their locker room is straight out of the 1920's, complete with a loft level and a table of Republicans playing dominos!  A great experience and a vastly underrated golf course in terms of difficulty.

I'm shocked that Indian Hill made your list. In my mind it's one of my least favorite designs in Chicago and one that Ross must of drawn up while sitting on the can. In many ways it's just a very high end residental development if I've ever seen one...  

7.  Sunset Ridge:  Its neighbor North Shore rightly gets a lot more attention, but this William Diddel gem is nothing but fun.  It doesn't kill you with length or ridiculous bunkering, but the doglegs and the greens will conspire to make you shoot higher than you'd like.  Another course that desperately needs barbering.  I counted thirty conifers within thirty yards of a green on a couple holes, but if you Photo-shop them in your mind, you can see what a special place it is.

Sunset has some nice holes and they called the work done on the course (and the clubhouse) a few years ago a "renovation" but there wasn't much done of note. The members love their course and really have no desire to change it. A nice set of greens though.

9.  Oak Park:  A great old-fashioned neighborhood club in a western suburb nearly adjacent to the city of Chicago.  It's a Donald Ross course that needed renovation and a chainsaw party.  It got a Rick Jacobson re-do and a huge thunderstorm that the grounds crew took great advantage of and removed hundreds of trees without having to take a vote that probably wouldn't have turned out the right way.

Other than probably one of the neatest clubhouses in Chicago (cool Frank Lloyd Wright style) there are some great bones here in the course, with a nice set of Ross greens, however if they've taken out trees I can't imagine how tight it was beforehand! They need to give this the Old Elm treatment and they would have something really special.

10.  Old Elm:  Okay, unlike the others I haven't played it, but if I haven't played it, it must be a hidden gem, right Bunky?  I'm TOLD that it had original Ross greens, short but fun par 5's and that the tunnel-vision tree problem has been eradicated.  All I need to do is suck up to Mike Keiser a lil bit to get out there, but I haven't set about that task yet.  Maybe next year!

Along with Shoreacres and Chicago Golf, Old Elm is my favorite place to play golf in Chicago. I've been lucky enough to be able to play here quite a few times in the past few years and I just love the golf course. It gets knocked for being "too short" and "an old man's" course but those people are idiots. Sure, at 6400 yards and par-73, you have a good chance at breaking par here if a scratch golfer, but it really plays as a par-70. Awesome greens, tons of subtle strategy, and zero play makes this a total pleasure. (plus the Ginger Snaps and good craft beer the President of the club buys every year doesn't hurt either).

As for Conway, I think it's a nice course, but nothing to write home about and a course I find boring after multiple plays. Really good players (Scott Rowe, Luke Donald) love the course though because from the tips it's goofy hard.

[Paul OConnor]

What about Hinsdale CC?  Glen View GC?  Both old line courses with not too much attention.

[PThomas]

Paul,

Could you be thinking of Ivanhoe? I think they had a renovation (and/or added 9 holes) by Hills about 6 or 7 years ago.

dont think so Matt --  has someone worked on whatever course is on First Avenue on its east side near 22nd st??

[Paul OConnor]

Riverside?  Neither hidden nor gem.

[Terry Lavin]

What about Hinsdale CC?  Glen View GC?  Both old line courses with not too much attention.

I've heard great things about Glen View GC, but haven't played it yet.  Never played Hinsdale and don't remember any particular chatter about it, to tell you the truth.

[Jeff Shelman]

I'm going to call the following line from Pat Craig to be the best so far in 2011:

"It gets knocked for being "too short" and "an old man's" course but those people are idiots."

[Rob Bice]

Rob,

I don't put Bob O'Link in this category for several reasons.  First and foremost, this isn't a list of #11-20 in Chicago.  This is a list of "hidden gems".  Second, because everybody seems to know about Bob O'.  It is not under the radar and hasn't been for a long time.  It used to be on the Top 100 GD list back in the day and it has all sorts of notoriety because of the men only rule.  Thirdly, it's only the tree situation that keeps it out of the Top Ten.  To me, it's a good golf course that is being hidden by an unbelievably oppressive set of trees.  They seem to take pride in the fact that they won't cut down trees or do anything that might be interpreted as modernizing their environment.  They like it the way they do and if you don't, well that's your problem, Charley, seems to be the prevailing attitude.  As an example, their 11th hole (?) is the "Willow" hole, where they've historically (meaning since the 60's when the elms died) had willows on both sides of the fairway, all the way up to the green.  It's an abomination.  The Bob O' guys always talk about how good the maintenance is at the club (and it is good) by referring to the fact that the willow branches are all cut at the perfect height to allow carts to drive underneath them without getting hit!  (That sentence alone will get Melvyn to reach for the Glenfiddich!)  Worse yet, when a willow dies there, they replant a willow tree.  It just might be the only well-known private club that is still planting willows.  Having said all that, it's a very good golf course, with a great mix of long and short holes and a couple great par 5 holes.  17 and 18 are a little underwhelming, but otherwise a lot of really good holes.  I just wish they'd cut down trees, re-cut the fairway lines and put some angles back into the place.  It would vault into the Top Ten if that work were done.

Terry-
Sorry, I should have referenced your specific comments about Exmoor where you mentioned it was much better than it's neighbor.  I wasn't implying Bob O' Link should be part of your list of 10 because I agree with you that it doesn't fit the criteria.  I should have elaborated more with my question.  I am a huge fan of Exmoor although unfortunately haven't played it in a while.

I have played Bob O' Link a few times over the years and have definitely enjoyed the rounds.  However, your comment regarding the trees is well taken.  I do remember being in the fairway a few times on mostly straight holes and being blocked on my second shot by overhanging trees.  Maybe if I played the course more often I would be able to take the trees into account strategically although it seemed a bit much in spots.
Rob

[Terry Lavin]

I'm going to call the following line from Pat Craig to be the best so far in 2011:

"It gets knocked for being "too short" and "an old man's" course but those people are idiots."

But in the same post, he extols the virtues of the "great craft beer" that the club president brings in, surely that dilutes the idiot comment or points it in a different direction!

[Jud_T]

Terry,

Glen View is a pretty solid old school track with some very good holes that I think you'd enjoy....It deserves to be on this list IMHO....

[PCCraig]

What about Hinsdale CC?  Glen View GC?  Both old line courses with not too much attention.

I've heard great things about Glen View GC, but haven't played it yet.  Never played Hinsdale and don't remember any particular chatter about it, to tell you the truth.

In my opinion GVC would be #2 or #3 on your current list of 10 once you get around to seeing it Terry. It's a Flynn course (only one left in IL?) redesigned by Esler in ~1999 many on here would love.

[PCCraig]

I'm going to call the following line from Pat Craig to be the best so far in 2011:

"It gets knocked for being "too short" and "an old man's" course but those people are idiots."

But in the same post, he extols the virtues of the "great craft beer" that the club president brings in, surely that dilutes the idiot comment or points it in a different direction!

Thanks Jeff!

Terry:

Old Elm doesn't have a liquor liscense, so 1) the members have to stock their own lockers full of their favorite drink, and the club provides the mixers (there are alot of tall bottles of premium vodka next to many's shoes ) and the president of the club purchases all of the beer for that particular year for the club, meaning people drink what beer the club president likes and the last couple years have been solid!

[JR Potts]

Damn those Northshore clubs.

As a half-lebanese, half-irish agnostic who looks either jewish or muslim, I've never been invited to said clubs.   

[Terry Lavin]

It seems to me that it's a stretch to call any course that has held the United States Open Championship "hidden."

I also wonder what Terry means by "gems".  That covers a lot of different types of stones.  I see at least a few rhinestones on this list...

Who?  Me?  Loose standards?  I'm shocked, just like the copper was shocked that there was gambling in Casablanca.

I'm sure there are those who'd question some of the choices, that's the fun of lists, but if you're speaking about LaGrange, it was a Women's Open and it still seems to be under the radar, dontcha agree?

[JMEvensky]

 and the president of the club purchases all of the beer for that particular year for the club, meaning people drink what beer the club president likes and the last couple years have been solid!

Does this mean that the President just orders all the beer or pays for it also?

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