Maderas Golf Club-Poway, California

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Things are happening in San Diego, which in knowledgable circles has always been an overated golf destination of sorts, but with the new remodel of Torrey Pines, the emergence of Barona Creek as the county's best, high end country clubs-- The Bridges of Rancho Sante Fe and Crosby National, and the unheralded Maderas.

The fact is that "Our" Neal Meagher has surprized me by building a golf course of some substance while handling a less then appreciative to the cause--owner and what could be described as the makings of an ecological nightmare corner of the property. Ironically those holes are pretty good, all things considering.

Yes, it has its usual gimmicky items such as a faux waterfall & creek, and a little too much containment, still under the expert hand of very good superintendent, Maderas is a very enjoyable round of golf. It has everything to do with the effort, even despite many obstacles that can get in an architects way. Even better is the fact that the architect is willing to listen to critique, no matter how harsh, because he wants to better himself. I find that quite refreshing.

My favorite hole is without doubt the par 4, 2nd which features an uphill tee shot over a defining depression. the approach should be, in all instances for the sale of fun--be played off of the left greenside containment which will knock the ball down, right, on to a very wild green where it can roll around and hopefully come close to the hole. How refreshing, the element of luck returned to the game!

The 2nd green. (sorry for the quality of the picture, but the conditons for taking any pictures at that time and degree of climate weren't possible for the most accurate of shots)

Another great hole was the slightly uphill par 3, 4th. which features a creek bed bisecting the fairway right down the middle up to the green.



the par 4, 5th Cape

The 10th

The Approach to the 16th

Neal has produced some fun greens at Maderas, and they are the hi-light of the course, but he has also managed to produce some interesting variety of par 3's and some neat crossings over natural creek beds, several times during the round, yet aren't environmentally destructive to the point where the golf is affected.

Great job Neal, and hopefully while everyone is down at Barona Creek in May, they will try to get by for a quick round.

[Jeff_Stettner]

Ahhh, Tommy, considering that this course is credited to Damian Pascuzzo ... could it be ... should it be ... yes, in fact you wrote good things about a Graves/Pascuzzo course, but with your ususal cunning, avoided doing it publicly. Veeerryy sly.
Anyway, I too like Maderas, though I will say that number 10 is the best hole on the course. The bunker scheme is really good, and the green's slant from front to back makes the short-iron approach a neat little challenge.
Maderas is certainly one of the best courses in San Diego.
Do you know if they changed the 6 green, which I found to be really cool? I know that the owner was thinking of doing so. Also, how close are they to going private? If I'm not mistaken, that too was in the works.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Congrats neal, Is this a course that might be accesable on the King Cup weekend?

[Matt_Cohn]

Tommy,

Good call!!! Maderas is in the same category with Barona Creek, and in particular because of how well designed the greens are. I really enjoyed the course a couple summers ago when the greens were very, very firm and fast - there were so many different ways to have fun with all of the green contours. The greens are a little softer now but many of the options remain.

I like your pictures but I'm not sure if people can tell just how good Maderas looks. It really is an awesome course visually, especially with the condition being so good - I was there in January and it's just about ideal.

I have a different set of favorite holes.
#3 is a long, straight downhill par-5 that tempts you to rip it off the tee, even though there's trouble on both sides.
#5 is an all-star, very long downhill par 4 cape hole, going left around a barranca; a perfect place for a running approach shot, with another barranca right of the green.
#12, a mid-length par-4, over a hill, then down to a shallow green protected by a pond.
It's hard to choose, there are a lot of fun holes!

If people have one gripe, it's that like many courses with Johnny Miller's name attached, it's hard, and it's really hard for higher handicappers. But, I think it's fair and fun. I've shot 67 there from the tips, so I think once you know your way around, it's definitely playable.

Overall it's a close call between Maderas and Barona. I think it's just personal preference for a wide-open look at Barona vs. a little more "compartmentalized" (but not artificial) look at Maderas. I'm really reaching for stuff here...they're both great designs and they're both a lot of fun, I think.

[Gib_Papazian]

Any positive comment on Maderas coming from me is bound to sound specious, but this is a fun ride on a tough piece of land.

I think the strength of Neal's architecture are his routing plans and putting surface contours - absolutely wild.

The owner, who I am told is a terrible putter,  wanted to blow up the three most interesting greens - including #2. I took it upon myself  to  write him a personal letter telling him the golf course would be grossly compromised by any modifications to the  putting surfaces.

It pays to remember that as good as Maderas is, Neal designed it before his epiphany . . . . .

[Scott_Burroughs]

I've also played Maderas, but I brought my D game with me that day, and the course kicked my arse.  #2 green is very good.

Matt, #3 is by no means a straight hole.  It doglegs right off the tee.  As good as you are, I guess it would play straight.  Admittedly, I hit a big one and cut the corner, but it's still a dogleg.

I would call #5 an excellent hole if only the fairway was more than what seemed to be 15-20 yards wide.  With a barranca (pond?) on the left and bunkers on the right and a 460 yard hole (487 from tips) though downhill, give me a little bit of fairway to work with, please!  I hooked my drive in the barranca and left me with a fun 250 yard approach downhill.  Pulled a very hard 2-iron left and was dead meat with a back right pin placement.

The next hole, however, was one of the worst holes.  It had a huge carry to reach the fairway but had an extremely narrow landing area where left is dead meat.

14-18 were fun holes.

[Matt_Cohn]

Scott,

You're right about #3, it does go a little right! I guess I think of it as 2 straight shots because the fairway will make the ball bounce right, so there's no requirement to cut it off the tee.

You're right about #6 too; the green is good but it's weird that we're forced to hit driver just to reach the fairway, on a hole that's only 360 (?) yards long from the tips.

As for #5, that is a narrow fairway! Again, I see your point here. With the length and angles on that hole, that fairway could extend a mile to the right, and the strategy of the hole wouldn't be compromised - it might even be a little better. I had never thought of it that way before.

I love the 2nd green. Should have been saved for a hole where we could see it from the fairway?

[Neal_Meagher]

Thanks Tommy for the good words and pictures of Maderas.  I'm glad that it sounds like so many people are discovering it now.

However, it's important to give credit where credit is due and, in truth, this particular golf course project had more cooks in the kitchen than should be allowed by law.  But, even still, the routing that was mostly outlined by Mr. Graves and the particular detailing around the main features and hazards turned out much better than I ever thought possible.

Owing to the rather compact nature of the workable area, the project manager, Art Noehren, wanted to focus on the creation of an intimate feeling place rather than a broad and expansive one.  So, rather than having broad fields of green and massive cart parking areas near the clubhouse, the outgoing and incoming tees and greens are right there, just as they should be.  The overall effect works, I believe.

Yes, Scott Burroughs and Matt Cohn are right that some of the holes are less than easy or perhaps even "fair".  No. 5, for instance, is a big monster of a hole and perhaps a bit more fairway could have helped.  But that intimacy I just spoke of got in the way, because immediately out to the right is the first fairway and then further down is the parking lot.  This is a bit of real-world stuff that, like it or not, we must deal with and do the best as possible.  However, the squiggly-wiggly mounding put in as a way of disguising the cartpath down that side could have been a bit less severe.  That is a trend that I hope is reversing across the board.

As to the forced carry for the 6th hole, well to me this is just a little gem of a sporting golf hole, the kind that we have gotten away from and now call suspicious and unforgiving.  There are about 15,000 other golf courses across the country where you can practically putt your way across the entire course, so it's not such a bad thing to have a few that offer something different.  Just my opinion and not one that a whole lot of others may share.

And to John Bernhardt, I will be down there tomorrow and will check with them about the availability of tee times that will dovetail with your outing at Barona Creek.

[THuckaby2]

Looks VERY cool and well, put me down with John Berhardt here, I'd sure love to see this course when we're all in the general vicinity come April... I'll post on the Barona thread re that.  Any efforts you can give toward this would be most appreciated, Neal!

TH