News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Carl Rogers

The 4th at Riverfront is featured as one of Renaissance Design Group’s best par 3’s on their web site.  My one and only possible contribution to this web site is to further explain and document the hole.  My handicap index is in the middle 4’s which colors my observations. Yardages: Blue ….. 175, White …..159, Green …..141, Red …….105.  The scorecard it says it is the 16th handicap hole. IMO, No. 4 is not the 16th easiest hole of on the course.

It is the 2nd par 3 on the course that lies between a par 4-1/2 ish hook dogleg right semi “alps” 480 yard 3rd and the 350 yard ish dogleg left (from the white tees) par 4 5th.  Access to the 4th tee is gained by bridge crossing over a wetland.

http://

While on the bridge, note the flagstick location as this is the best vantage point.  The tee shot is uphill but only enough so to slightly obscure the target making depth perception difficult to gauge (a common theme at Riverfront).



There is a bunker back right which is blind from the tee on line with the freestanding oak tree.  Avoid this bunker.  In the summer the holes plays generally into the wind on most days.
Strategy is:
1.   if the flag is back, do not miss right.  
2.   if the flag is middle or front, get over the front bunker and stay “below” hole which favors right portion of green.
Thus is the paradox of the hole; pin position effects club selection as well aiming direction.  For me, this was not apparent until the 8th or 10th time playing the hole.  The contours of the green can only be guessed because tee is the shot is very slightly below the green.



Access to the green is around a grouping of trees & vegetation loosing sight of the green. For an extended period of time, the golfer is left wondering where the tee shot has come to rest. The tee shot from the forward tee is also sort of blind and requires a high quality shot



The walk-up approach to the green adds to the suspense, but as you get 20 feet from the green, the quality of the tee shot is finally revealed.  Putting is very much easier if your ball is below the hole and on the same side of the sloping crown.



This is bunker blind from the tee.                                                          







The greens at Riverfront are not easy to describe, which is why I took a bunch of overall measurements and include a drawing with some descriptions. The shape of this green is a generally like a subtle curved trapezoid-parallelogram.   The most salient feature is a curvilinear sloping crown starting back left moving toward the front right.  Turned up edges create counter slopes toward this crown.  
No level putts exist here and a myriad of breaking putts exist from everywhere.  The front right is a mini punchbowl.



One other observation about this hole and many others at Riverfront … missing greens.
If the pin is located front or middle, missing short right leaves an easier chip shot than a long putt down, across and/or over the sloping crown.  If the pin is back, missing slightly long leaves an easier chip than a long putt from the front of the green up & over the diagonally positioned ridge.



When to play???  Springtime is dicey, weather and course conditioning wise.
The best time of year to play Riverfront is from September 20 to November 1.  In that time of year, the weather is cooler and dryer and the greens firmer. The super, Mr. Andy Woolston, there from the beginning, is then able to buzz the greens down a bit and all of the green slopes play to their fullest.  Friday’s are often busy with outings, call ahead.  Most of the pictures posted here were taken in late October and into November.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 08:02:44 PM by Carl Rogers »

Jim Eder

Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2010, 03:41:05 PM »
Really terrific write-up and pics!!!

scott_wood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 06:14:15 PM »
have "missed" Riverfront twice while returning north from HHI...
won't miss it the third time  ;D

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2010, 02:09:00 AM »
Carl - nice post, the index of par 3s rarely reflects their true scoring. In the UK we play more matchplay golf if this hole was actually the 4th hardest scoring hole on the course would you be happy get a shot with a 6 iron in you hand (yes!!) but giving a shot to a nine handicapper??
Cave Nil Vino

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2010, 08:53:13 AM »
Other than the ability to see the green, I see some similarities to the first par 3 on The Osprey at Kiawah. Maybe it's the fronting bunker just passed the water hazard.  ::)
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2010, 09:06:39 AM »
Other than the ability to see the green, I see some similarities to the first par 3 on The Osprey at Kiawah. Maybe it's the fronting bunker just passed the water hazard.  ::)

I was thinking the same thing. Add a road on the left and take out some of the trees on the right and it's very close.

Not saying that I think the 2nd at Osprey is a bad hole either, just that it looks similar.
H.P.S.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2010, 09:43:40 AM »
Re:  bunker between wetland and green:  This course was built under restrictions from the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act, which mandated a buffer of native vegetation around all of the wetland areas.  So, that could have been long, unmaintained grass right up to the edge of the green.  I managed to convince the local council that a bunker, which required no chemical input and which collected runoff into subsurface drainage, would be okay within the buffer zone.  I suspect that's the case for other courses, as well.

It has been ages since I've been back to the course [or to the area ... like Lubbock, it's just not on the way from Traverse City to anywhere].  Carl, say hello to Andy for me.

Carl Rogers

Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2010, 10:05:42 AM »
Tom,
I imagine Andy is not doing much right now except waiting for the snow to melt which it will by Saturday.

Was this green site pretty much how you originally "found" it?

As this was one of your first courses, did this green site remind you of other greens on other courses you had worked on or studied?

What other par 3 holes on other early courses were under consideration for the "best" label.  I thought the 13th at Beechtree NLE RIP was a very good hole though a a little longer than this one.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 11:10:13 AM by Carl Rogers »

Jeff Doerr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2010, 11:02:59 AM »
Carl,

I love #4 and wish I would have played with you on my trip out there.

A few more pics:





Cheers, Jeff
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Mike Tanner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2010, 01:27:11 PM »
Excellent post, Carl. That hole is one of the most picturesque remaining on the course. Too many sightlines have been encroached upon by the housing. That said, Riverfront is one of my favorite courses in Hampton Roads.
Life's too short to waste on bad golf courses or bad wine.

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2010, 10:21:36 AM »
I like this hole for many reasons. And I have three putted this hole more times than I have birdied it.

The green is mostly blind from the tee so when you arrive at the green you are either pleasantly surprised or dread your putt.

The green is very difficult because there is a subtle ridge that runs from the middle of the green up to the ten o'clock position. The last time I played, the pin was on this ridge so putts went left and right.

I think the front pin position is the hardest because the green has the steepest contours in this place. The easiest is back right because you will have an easy putt if you are short or right. If you pull your tee shot left, then this is a very difficult putt as the green slopes left to right and front to back.

I like this hole because of the variety of the tee boxes. Some days they move the tee box up and it plays 135 yards and other days it plays 165 yards.


Carl Rogers

Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2010, 06:08:55 PM »
As this thread winds down, I thought I would add a few more comments.  Tom, please correct me as needed.

1. The 4th hole is the lynchpin to the routing of the front nine.  Long before the houses or streets or utilities or the bridge across the wetland in the early 90's, Tom must discovered and realized this interesting pair of peninsulas had to be in the course routing somehow.  Behind the 4th tee is the 8th green, a very attractive green site, at the edge of the wetlands, in its own right.

2. As I have discovered overtime, Riverfront green complexes are a series of themes and variations.  They may represent an interpretation and extrapolation of template archetypes.  The 4th green is actually one of the tamer greens on the course.  There is a lot of design density to the course.

3.  The landing areas of each hole and the subject of approach shot play deserves its own thread.  My next project, now that I have the hang of Photobucket ...

4.  Last summer as many courses were under great heat stress, that problem did not exist at Riverfront.  A lot of water gets poured on the greens and the super, Mr. Woolston knows what he is doing.

5.  I am not sure that the 4th is my favorite hole.  The 10th, 13th & 14th are also favorites.  The 14th could have made the short list for RDG's best par 5's.

This is an under the radar course.

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renaissance Design Group Best Holes - Riverfront 4th hole Suffolk,VA
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2011, 08:49:45 PM »

While I like the fourth hole, I think the 12th hole is one of the best long par 4s anywhere because of the split fairway and the great bunker that sits 20 yards in front of the green.

I also like the 15th hole because of the importance of hitting to the right side of the fairway to have a good approach to the green. I am not sure what is the best hole at Riverfront but there are lots of good holes there. Now, we just need the the snow to melt so we can return to the links.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back