[Peter Galea]

Add this to your must read list. Shackelford has written the "GCA Manifesto." I just finished it this morning and am duly impressed. Although at first it is a stretch of the imagination, just go along with it. You will be rewarded.
Kudos to Geoff.

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Thanks Pete, yes it's far-fetched, but it wasn't meant to be War and Peace! Glad you liked it.

[Lou Duran]

Very light, enjoyable reading, specially for those who want to learn about gca, but are easily distracted by more technical writings.

[Chris Kane]

I've only managed to flick through it at this stage, but I liked the format.  It put the theoretical stuff into a context which I found useful.

Much easier reading than the technical stuff, and therefore more appealing IMO.  At first I thought the concept was bizarre, but it turned out fantastic.

I'll have so read it properly some time.

[Danny Goss]

I'll admit that I loved it and found it very educational. It was easy to read and well put together. Well done Geoff.  A must read for those ( like me ) just beginning to learn a little about golf architecture.

[Will Waugh]

Just a little confused but interested, lads. Where exactly do you find the said article/essay/book/manifesto?

[Peter Galea]

Just a little confused but interested, lads. Where exactly do you find the said article/essay/book/manifesto?

http://www.sleepingbearpress.com/detail.asp?isbn=1%2D886947%2D43%2D0

[SL_Solow]

I'm generally in agreement with Geoff and I've bought everything he has published so I hope he won't mind a little criticism.  I read the book right after publication.  The premise is great, the architectural points are well made but it ran out of steam and became extremely repetitive.  I thought with judicious editing it would have made a phenomenal short story.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I am sure I have this at home now. when was it released. John

[Dan Kelly]

Next up from Geoff S.: "The Captain Returns" -- to the new Riviera? A horror story, perhaps, in the tradition of Edgar Allan Poe? Just an idea.

SL_Solow --

I have not read "The Good Doctor Returns," so can't say if I agree with your literary assessment.

BUT! I do think the point you make, about judicious editing and about mediocre novels that might have made great short stories, is right on the mark.

Books today are too damned long! The reading public, apparently -- perhaps like the golfing public -- thinks: Longer is better. Give me my money's worth! So writers blather on, and editors see no need to polish and trim. Potentially fine short stories become (because there's no money to be made in the short-story field) mediocre novels. Potentially fine short novels become big, overblown epics.

My guess: If Fitzgerald submitted "The Great Gatsby" today, or if James M. Cain submitted any of his masterfully taut and lean fiction, most publishers would think "Too short" and send it back.

[Paul Perrella]

    Geoff,

  Having read more than 1300 books over the last decade I feel I am much more qualified to discuss their merits than golf course architecture. With that being said, I thought your Good Doctor was the best golf related book I had ever read and I have read a number of them. Although they are certainly different in every aspect, I gave excellent ratings to both your book and War and Peace. Probably the first reference ever to the Shack & Tolstoy.

           Keep up the good work.  Paul

[Geoff Shackelford]

Lou, Danny,
Thanks a bunch!

SL,
Fair criticism. It started out as a short story and perhaps it would have been better that way for some. But there isn't an outlet for short stories in golf, so I went the short novel route and Sleeping Bear was kind enough to give it a shot. Looking back, I'd love to change a few things, but at the same time, I've gotten many more emails about that book than all the others combined, and some letters that really blew me away about people's insights or personal experiences or new perspectives on design. So in that light, I don't know if I would change it too much, since the goal was to do what Chris pointed out, to get past the notion that architecture is technical and provide a fun way to read about design principles and the state of the game.

Dan,
I actually wrote a brief article for the Riviera club magazine several years back with Thomas coming back to see Riviera. He hated the cart paths, the kikuyu, the flood holes, etc... well, the management made me change it so that he came back, he was thrilled with everything, and at the end of his tour, warmly embraced owner Watanabe for his wonderful efforts. Brutal stuff! I get dizzy just thinking about it.  Thankfully, few people saw it.

Paul,
Yes, my first and probably only reference to Tolstoy. Thanks for the kind words,
Geoff

[Dan Kelly]

Geoff S. --

You write: "I actually wrote a brief article for the Riviera club magazine several years back with Thomas coming back to see Riviera. He hated the cart paths, the kikuyu, the flood holes, etc... well, the management made me change it so that he came back, he was thrilled with everything, and at the end of his tour, warmly embraced owner Watanabe for his wonderful efforts. Brutal stuff! I get dizzy just thinking about it.  Thankfully, few people saw it."

What do you mean that the management "made" you change it? How could they "make" you change it?

Very puzzling.

[THuckaby2]

DK - you of all people should be able to read sarcasm into these posts!

I really think Geoff was being facetious here.

And Geoff, add me to the legions of fans of "Good Doctor."  It got me much more "into" architecture and made me take some further looks at the MacKenzie courses around me... I wrote you a glowing email at the time it first came out, and none of my sentiments have changed today.  Loved it.

TH

[SL_Solow]

Geoff thanks for taking my remarks in the spirit in which they were offered.  I understand the problem and notwithstanding my comments I enjoyed the book and have shared it with others as a means of getting them interested.

[Dan Kelly]

Tom IV, Geoff S. --

What a stupid I am!  

[Geoff Shackelford]

Uh, Dan, I wasn't being facetious. I was working on the Riviera history book at the time and so I worked for the Tokyo management. I wrote the article, and they most definitely asked me to change it just the way I described because they worship Mr. Watanabe (he has a red carpet laid out only when he's in town), and I should have just not let them print it. But then again, with a circulation of 700, of which 20 would read the magazine, it wasn't a big deal.

Sorry though, wish I was joking!

Riviera is a unique place...the stories would make for a great novel! Hmmm...

[THuckaby2]

MASSIVE apologies - sorry Dan!

Me the stupid one.

That was just too funny... or sad.. to be true.  Yet another sad day in the annals of beloved Riv.

TH

[Dan Kelly]

Or maybe just a great short story?  

[cardyin2]

The golf pro at Timberton in Hattiesburg, MS recommended the book to me and loaned me his copy so I could read it during a cruise which disembarked from New Orleans last April.
Being familiar with the Valley Club at Montecito and having driven by the property at Camp Pendleton many times and envisoned where the golf course(s) might be sited made the book especially initriguing.  I believe I noted many of Mackenzie's quotes were lifted from his previous writings,  In all, it was a fun read-  EXCEPT FOR THE EDITING.  The typographical and grammatical errors were like fingernails scraping a blackboard.  Surely a published author knows when to use "to" and "too", among other things, and a copy editor apparently didn't catch the difference either. I noted some of the contributors to this website were cited in the Ackknowledgements, and I wondered how so many people could have reviewed material and not noted the obvious errors.  I may be somewhat different because I have been engaged in writing, and  proofreading and editing writings, for more than a generation. But sloppy errors are, in my opinion, inexcusable.    

[Geoff_Shackelford]

cardyin2,
Fair point again, typos are awful and I nearly pass out whenever one is found. It happens in all books, and sometimes it's the publishers fault, sometimes the editor for not running things by the author, sometimes the authors. Like in your post above, there is a typo, but it doesn't undermine your comments.

There were many quotes lifted from MacKenzie's writings. I'm not sure if you were implying that in a negative way, but it was most certainly intentional and was clearly stated in the Acknowledgments that this was the case.

Geoff

[Dan Kelly]

Cardyin2 --

Lend me an ear, won't you?

I presume that you'll agree: Sloppy errors are excusable here on the DG!

Much as I sympathize with you about the inadequacy of modern editing, I certainly hope that you can envison -- and will ackknowledge as much -- that these online discussion groups should be held to somewhat lower standards.

 

[Peter Galea]

Thanks to my friend, junior member, Richerd Goodale, I have a new appreciation for tyops. I like 'em. I do underline them in books I read, just for fun. I woeked at a newpaper years ago and one day we put on the street 3000 copies before anyone realized on the front page it read, pubic notices instead of publik notices. What a hoot! I studied phonics in grade school and I use grafeety on my PDA. Mistyakes in fiction don't bother me, as long as I ken sound 'em out, I get the gist of things. "The ends justify the meens." It's the plot that matters to me.
Pete "type B"

[cardyin2]

How many times in one's life does one have an opportunity to comment directly to an author about his work?  I liked the book, but the errors grated on me, and I couldn't resist  making the comments I did.  I am quite familiar with error in writing.  As an attorney, I have represented media interests for more than 40 years, and I have made a living cleaning up after error.  Error produced my livelihood and put our children through college. Editing is a process designed to detect and eliminate error.  That is why there are different eyes and layers of editing in the process.  For example, I misspelled a word in my comments, and Geoff immediately corrected it.  That's good editing.  As for this website, I don't hold anyone to any standards whatever because, among other things, there is no editing process.The first response to something I posted contained references to "sight" instead of "site" and used the word "suttle."  After that, I simply grimace and move on.

[Paul Perrella]

  cardyin2

 I do a fair amount of reading and I'm sure you would be shocked at the number of editorial oversights in many books. I offer this not as an excuse but as an unfortunate fact. I also see no evidence that this problem is limited to any one publishing company. I do find it amusing that while I don't always see my own errors, I can certainly recognize publishing snafus.

                Paul

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