2010: My favorite golf hole I played and why...

[Jerry Kluger]

I would like to point to one hole at Bandon but I can't - they were all memorable and fun - I would really have to play the courses a few more times to pick out a favorite.

[Bill_McBride]

I had seen pictures and read about the 17th at Crystal Downs.  You see that it's a 310 yd par 4 and think you should have no more that a 15 ft birdie putt.  Ha.  The card says 310 but it plays considerably longer because it's uphill.  The fairway also slopes from right (trouble) to left (more trouble) and is quite narrow.  The left hand side is so treacherous that a few years ago a friend of mine drove down in the bad stuff and wound up fracturing his leg and missed out on the next leg of his golf holiday, his three day visit to Pine Valley.

I found it to be a tough tee shot with a four iron.   I am a relatively chicken golfer off the tee and have no problem laying back.   Driver never entered my mind.  I didn't stripe it but found fairway, about 130 yds out.  Like the tee shot, the approach is also do or die.  Short and left is the safest place to miss because there is no good going against the large fall off to front and left.  Right and long are severely punished.  Uphill shots are what you seek around the green, regardless of length.  Because my putting is not strong, I'd rather had a 20ft uphill putt than a 4 ft downhill slider.  I fear the 20 ft come backer up the hill.  Many thanks to my host for a very special day.

Steve-
What a great picture of 17 from the tee.  I have played the course twice and both times drove it down and to the left leaving myself a nearly blind second shot.  Is it possible to lay way back - 6 iron or 7 iron off the tee - to give yourslef a better look at the green for your second shot?  The picture makes it seem as if there is spmewhat of a plateau before it goes down but I can't remember.  I am pretty sure anything more than 180 yards off the tee feeds down to the aforementioned blind second shot.  The hole comes at a great point in the round.

Hope all is well with you and Happy New Year.
Rob

I tried to be real smart and hit a 3 hybrid way up to the right, expecting a bounce over the hill and a SW up the throat of the green.

No such luck; the ball stuck up there and all I could do was chop it out of thick rough with the ball way above my feet.  Easy double.  

[Gary Slatter]

I found this very difficult but over the past few years my two favourite holes are the 1st and the 17th on the Old Course.
The Road Hole is my lifetime most difficult hole to par or birdie, and yet someone in our fourball, with a higher handicap, always pars the hole (Gordon Murray always pars the hole and he's a 15).  I actually hate the hole but love playing it!

My favourite hole though is the first hole.  The conditions always vary, I've hit 6 iron wedge and driver three wood.  The hole looks so simple but your tee shot has to be well left if the pin is front or middle, on days when weather is not a factor (rare).  The green appears simple, most putts are straight although none look straight.  The byrne in front requires serious consideration, I've seen so many balls end up there after great looking drives.  I've seen 4 players hit it OB right on golf's widest fairway - one day I had to knock down a three iron starting at the bridge on the 18th fairway, in order to avoid going OB right.  On paper it's a birdie hole, and it can be, but nothing is automatic on the Old, on any hole.

[Mike Benham]

At least 3 options from the tee, plus shot types, risk reward without penal ...

I'd love to hear your take on the options ... are they directional or distance?

[Rob Bice]

I had seen pictures and read about the 17th at Crystal Downs.  You see that it's a 310 yd par 4 and think you should have no more that a 15 ft birdie putt.  Ha.  The card says 310 but it plays considerably longer because it's uphill.  The fairway also slopes from right (trouble) to left (more trouble) and is quite narrow.  The left hand side is so treacherous that a few years ago a friend of mine drove down in the bad stuff and wound up fracturing his leg and missed out on the next leg of his golf holiday, his three day visit to Pine Valley.

I found it to be a tough tee shot with a four iron.   I am a relatively chicken golfer off the tee and have no problem laying back.   Driver never entered my mind.  I didn't stripe it but found fairway, about 130 yds out.  Like the tee shot, the approach is also do or die.  Short and left is the safest place to miss because there is no good going against the large fall off to front and left.  Right and long are severely punished.  Uphill shots are what you seek around the green, regardless of length.  Because my putting is not strong, I'd rather had a 20ft uphill putt than a 4 ft downhill slider.  I fear the 20 ft come backer up the hill.  Many thanks to my host for a very special day.

Steve-
What a great picture of 17 from the tee.  I have played the course twice and both times drove it down and to the left leaving myself a nearly blind second shot.  Is it possible to lay way back - 6 iron or 7 iron off the tee - to give yourslef a better look at the green for your second shot?  The picture makes it seem as if there is spmewhat of a plateau before it goes down but I can't remember.  I am pretty sure anything more than 180 yards off the tee feeds down to the aforementioned blind second shot.  The hole comes at a great point in the round.

Hope all is well with you and Happy New Year.
Rob

I tried to be real smart and hit a 3 hybrid way up to the right, expecting a bounce over the hill and a SW up the throat of the green.

No such luck; the ball stuck up there and all I could do was chop it out of thick rough with the ball way above my feet.  Easy double.  

Bill-
I do remember thinking about going up the right side although I was afraid of pushing it into the trees.  Great risk/reward because I believe a well executed tee shot to the right would leave an open path to a visible green.  Still not an easy shot especially with the slope of the green but at least the shot is in front of you and on a more equal level.
Rob

[Matt_Ward]

Hard to single out just one hole but if forced to choose -- the envelope please ...

drum roll / drum roll ...

and the winner is ...

The 3rd at Old Macdonald !!!

Just a stunning hole -- the blind tee shot is riveting -- makes you wonder where you finish -- the walk over the large mounds is akin to a child awaiting the daylight heading into Xmas day.

The hole turns nicely in the drive zone and the range of options is too numerous to mention them all.

Aggressive play can reap a huge reward but the tee shot must smartly avoid a whole series of penal-style bunkers. The last one on the left side is devilish to the max. Great contoured green and just about any number can be had here with the right / wrong circumstances from eagle to double-bogey. The last element that makes the 3rd so stunning is that it provides for the player(s) the first real glimpse of the rest of the round to follow.

[JC Jones]

Kingsley Club #13, 285 yard Par 4, Various conditions, a bunch of times:

I can't wait to birdie it next July and close out the grudge match 7 & 5.

[Mike Wagner]

Phil,

Great call on EH #2!  My favorite hole would tend to change out there a bunch, but it always came back to #2.  It really rewards a great tee shot - I love when the landscape allows you to "see" the shape, but doesn't absolutely demand it (a hard draw around the left hill).  Then you've got the most puckering shot on the golf course - I've seen a lot more "easy 5s" than "easy 3s" there.

The new green is MUCH better...

Another great call on BM #8 - I'm a huge fan.  In fact, I love every hole out there - my favorite course in WI.

[Jud_T]

Kingsley Club #13, 285 yard Par 4, Various conditions, a bunch of times:

I can't wait to birdie it next July and close out the grudge match 7 & 5.

The only way that's happening is if I'm sandbagging only to raise the stakes massively over at the Downs!

[Jud_T]

Great call on EH #2!  My favorite hole would tend to change out there a bunch, but it always came back to #2.  It really rewards a great tee shot - I love when the landscape allows you to "see" the shape, but doesn't absolutely demand it (a hard draw around the left hill).  
The new green is MUCH better...

Mike,
Can you detail why it's much better beyond USGA playability/maintenance concerns?  Haven't been back up since the latest renovation, but I find it hard to believe.  The old green was near perfect IMHO....

[JC Jones]

Kingsley Club #13, 285 yard Par 4, Various conditions, a bunch of times:

I can't wait to birdie it next July and close out the grudge match 7 & 5.

The only way that's happening is if I'm sandbagging only to raise the stakes massively over at the Downs!

Are we playing both Kingsley and CD with 1 club or just Kingsley?  And if both, do we have to play each course with the same club?

[Phil McDade]

Phil,

Do you prefer the 2nd green post-renovation?

Jud:

I didn't see the 2nd green in person prior to the expansion. I will say this -- that is one small green, even expanded by 50 percent as it was under the latest renovations out there. My sense is that it'd be really tough to find four (six?) pin positions for the US Open there with the original green. I don't think the enlarged green detracts from its central appeal and challenge, which is a very small, domed target (similar to what I've seen in pics of Pinehurst #2), with plenty of ways to take on a recovery shot (putts, lob wedges, bump-n-runs) should one miss the target. Several folks whose views I respect suggest the approach to the 2nd is a real a..-puckerer; I might play the hole short, to the fairway visible off the tee (even though it's a blind approach shot) to leave a full shot into that green.

[Bill_McBride]

My favorite hole in 2010 was #12 at Ballyneal.

It's a 375 yard par 4, uphill dogleg slightly left I guess.  There's a deep bunker and thick junk on the left side, so it's easy to slide your tee ball out to the right where it takes a steep slow down into a hollow, leaving a mostly blind mid iron or hybrid.  Here's the tee shot, I think from the up tee, you can see the slope that takes you far down to the right:



The real genius of the hole is the green and surrounds.  The green is very large, and cut into four quadrants by steep ridges, one down the middle front to back, the other across the middle left to right.  The quadrants are each a bowl with steep slopes off the ridges, resulting in lots of opportunities to play away from the hole or even past the hole looking for a trickle back result.  I played the hole alone twice (in the loop 10-11-12-9!!!!), and spent quite a bit of time.  It's worth it!

Here's the green - whaddya think?  



My honorable mentions for 2010 (Deal, Porthcawl, Pennard) are loaded with great holes, so you can see how highly I rated Ballyneal's 12th.  

[Morgan Clawson]

Bill,

An amazing hole and green indeed! Certainly better than #4 at Keller!

Terrific photos!

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

An amazing hole and green indeed! Certainly better than #4 at Keller!

Terrific photos!

Morgan, I can't take credit for the photos, they are off Ballyneal's website:  http://www.ballyneal.com/site/hole_tour

But thanks!

[Tim Bert]

Some wonderful selections on this thread.  I don't know how you guys narrow it down to one hole.  I can't play this game.

[Jud_T]

Kingsley Club #13, 285 yard Par 4, Various conditions, a bunch of times:

I can't wait to birdie it next July and close out the grudge match 7 & 5.

The only way that's happening is if I'm sandbagging only to raise the stakes massively over at the Downs!

Are we playing both Kingsley and CD with 1 club or just Kingsley?  And if both, do we have to play each course with the same club?

We haven't decided...How about 3 clubs, same for both rounds regardless of course...

[Mac Plumart]

Jud and JC...

I want in on this 3 club tournament.  Where do I sign up?

[JC Jones]

Kingsley Club #13, 285 yard Par 4, Various conditions, a bunch of times:

I can't wait to birdie it next July and close out the grudge match 7 & 5.

The only way that's happening is if I'm sandbagging only to raise the stakes massively over at the Downs!

Are we playing both Kingsley and CD with 1 club or just Kingsley?  And if both, do we have to play each course with the same club?

We haven't decided...How about 3 clubs, same for both rounds regardless of course...

3 clubs is for little girls and whiney ann arbor wannabe hippies.  Man up and play it one club, same club for each course.  (which, by the way, totally kills my plan because I had KC all worked out with one club but I dont think I could pull it off at CD).

[JC Jones]

Jud and JC...

I want in on this 3 club tournament.  Where do I sign up?

I wouldn't so much classify it as a tournament so much as a battle to the death between a Spartan and a Wolverine.  Internet aggression turned loose for 36 holes on the two greatest courses in the state of Michigan.  

You are welcome to come play and watch Jud be humiliated (I think the more witnesses the better, I fully plan on inviting Mike D so he can watch a fellow Wolverine brought to tears on his course).  We will be doing it sometime around the 4th of July.  Otherwise, if you come to northern Michigan, at any point this summer, I'll gladly play you in a 3 club match at Kingsley (or Belvedere, but that wouldn't be fair ).

[Jud_T]

3 clubs is my minimum, and that wouldn't be pretty either....Hell, I have a hard enough time with 14!  3 or 14, your choice.  Either way I think I'm gettin' my fair complement of USGA strokes....

[Bradley Anderson]

15th hole at Holston Hills


The mounds are sized in such a way as to give the illusion, from the tee, that you need more carry to clear the right side than the left side. Note that there is also more fairway in front of the right side, than the left side, to add to the illusion. But all that is needed to clear the right side is an extra 10-20 yards or so from the tee.


The left side of the green is very heavily guarded. Clearly you want to position your tee shot on the right side.


My favorite hole in 2010.

[JC Jones]

3 clubs is my minimum, and that wouldn't be pretty either....Hell, I have a hard enough time with 14!  3 or 14, your choice.  Either way I think I'm gettin' my fair complement of USGA strokes....

We are 7 months away and you're already starting to complain.  I'm fine with 3 clubs but let the record reflect that I was in for a 1 club match.  I'm like a 20 handicap so I'm pretty sure you'll be giving me strokes.  

The real question is this: if you beat me, will you say that you did it as well as an ivy leaguer could?

[Jud_T]

I'll say that I was slumming it regardless...   Ivy league, hell I think I'm STILL on several waitlists at Yale! Also, I think that we should agree that the loser has to wear the other school's colors at any GCA event for the following year, up to and including the rematch!....

[Mike Wagner]

Jud,

The old green was simply too small.....and it's still tiny.  It was increased 40%.  It was also flattened a bit which, IMO, added made it even better.  It's a subtle green, looks flat, but has a good amount of break.

It really is a puckering shot...the old one was just not receptive enough.  I've seen a lot of really good players flinch around that green and turn what looked like 50/50 birdie opportunities into 5s (on the new one).

I think it will also entice longer payers at the AM to go for it now (given the right wind) and the old green you just wouldn't consider even getting lucky and keeping something on.