[Mac Plumart]

Okay, we always talk about architecture, routing, bunker placement, etc.  And we always talk about the Architect as Genius (had to steal that one from you Mike Young   ), but let's go back to the beginning, before all this can even begin and let's break down how it all evolves.

Let's use this as a hypothetical...

One guy wants to build a golf course.  Not a real estate development.  Not a country club.  The course will have a par 3 course and an 18 hole golf course.

What does he do next? 

I would think he would have to identify where he wants to build the course in terms of general area...Mid-West. East Coast.

And then begin a search for appropriate land.

Is that correct?

If not, where does it begin?  If so, what is next?  Or how much more specific does it need to be on those fronts.

[Mac Plumart]

I guess things that come to my mind as things I know have to be done/analyzed that I am ignorant on are:

Permitting.  When should the owner look into this?  Prior to land purchase, I would assume.  And what types of permitting need to be applied for.

Soil types.  I've heard sandy loam is the best.  But do soil test need to be done.  Again, if so...when?  And what are you looking for?

Financing...I think I have a real good understanding on that front.

Like I said, I think it would be cool to outline a step by step process for doing this type of thing from scratch.  It could educate future would-be developers.  It could educate all of us on how the developers decisions shape what the architect does.  It could show us how the land and restrictions on the land affect the developers ideas and the architects work.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mac

May I suggest you get a 'pure blood' Scot to design the course. It will save you money and time and after all he will understand what you are looking for

Melvyn

[Mac Plumart]

Melvyn...

It seems to have worked for Mike Keiser at Bandon!


Seriously, I found a basic outline of what I am interested in.  For others interested, page 195 of Anatomy of a Golf Course by, who else, Tom Doak.  

He also had this on his site...

http://www.renaissancegolf.com/selected_essays/what_will_it_cost/


Page 120 in Tom Fazio's Golf Course Designs starts a string of pretty good information as well.  

Brad Klein's Sebonack is a good guide as is Dream Golf by Goodwin.  

Perhaps not as detailed as I'd like, but it gives me a good idea of how the process works.

I do think this would make a good thread for the reasons I outlined previously, in case anyone wants to discuss.

PS...I think Tom Doak said something interesting in his Anatomy book on page 195; "The construction process is not a series of steps, but of overlapping steps, performed on each successive hole in the following order: "

And then he gives his 12 point list.  Pretty good stuff!

EDIT...Bingo...http://www.asgca.org/course-design

[Brett_Morrissy]

Mac,
In light of nothing else so far, educate us on the financials - you said you have that in hand?

Land + business plan/model + right builder

[Bruce Katona]

1. Find one person who has multiple million dollars (pounds, euro's, whatevers) who has no  nee to get or receieve any return on their capital for several years.

The remaining items now fall in line.

Pretty difficult in today's worls to locate many who can get past #1 above.

[PCCraig]

Mac:

Steps #1-1,000: Hire someone who knows what they're doing to build it for you.


You should read Driving the Green its a great, but very sad. story of a guy who bought land in Florida and built the "course of his dreams."

You can buy a copy for $1-2 on Amazon. Well worth your time if you're really interested in building something and the process involved.

[Michael Dugger]

Mac

Without the finances to support this venture you cannot begin.

Without a parcel of land selected and purchased, you cannot begin obtaining permits.

To deem if a parcel of land is suitable for golf you will need folks to look at it, and draft plans

It makes sense that by the time you get to looking at parcels of land (and buying them,) you have a business plan and golf course architect in mind.

It's not unheard of to alter some of this stuff mid stream, like changing architects, but changing your financial source mid stream is not a good idea!!!

[RJ_Daley]

Mac, yes John Strawn's book, "Driving the Green" is a good narrative story of an actual conception to finish golf project.  But, Dr. Mike Hurdzan's book, "Golf Course Architecture" is more of a text book detailing many aspects of course construction that you should have, if you don't already.

[Tim Nugent]

Nothing is ever "cookbook" but every journey begins with a single step. A common place to start that journey is "defining the dream."  Next I would determine what kind/style you desire. At this time, you would be wise to try to match up Architects who have worked in that style. They will be of great help in refining "The Dream" into a business plan, perhaps the most important part of which would be an operational Proforma and preliminary budgets.
It should be noted that up to now, no time has been spent on anything regarding design or construction.
Now, a search for suitable land should be undertaken.  An experienced architect will be able to ascertain suitability from a site review and identify flaws that may prove expensive to overcome. This can be thought of as a Site Feasibility Study.
Only after several parcels have been identified, some conceptual routings should be done and a preliminary development budget for construction prepared and plugged into the Proforma. 
Too many just jump right into the design and/or land purchase before or ever doing this upfront work and it ends up costing much more or resulting in flaws that are too great to overcome.

[Mac Plumart]

Guys...thanks!  I've just glanced over this, but I will dig into it more throughout the day.

Brett...you asked about financials and wanted me to educate you on that aspect of it.  Frankly, I don't know if I can educate anyone very well on this thread, but I know a few things about it. 

First and foremost, you have to have capital. 

Secondly, whatever short fall you might have...you need to be able to overcome that with access to capital. 

If the owner has a boat load of money, he has capital and, therefore, access to capital.  No worries. 

If he doesn't have adequate capital himself, he needs to be able to tap into capital.  He could raise capital from friends and potential members.  For example, get a group of 50 guys to kick in $100,000 and becoming founding members.  That is $5 million for seed money.  Loans are also an option, but that avenue is probably really hard to come by these days unless the collateral is amazing.  Securities based loans are available...usually 70 to 80% loan to value with very low interest rates.  I am sure the land can be used as collateral as well, but I am not sure on the loan to value ratios on this and/or the interest rates.

My opinion on this is that to get involved in the building of a course the owner needs to have deep pockets and cash flow from multiple sources.  It most likely would put a strain on the operation and pressure everyone to cut corners to get a finished product online and generating revenue, if the operation is run on a shoestring and/or another cash flow source (business, trust account, huge bond portfolio, etc) isn't in place.

I think this aspect highlights the importance of the right owner regarding the end product of a golf course.

I also think this highlights the need to a TRUSTED partner who knows how to build a course and manage expenses on the job and on the maintenance side of things when the project is done. 

These are just my thoughts from someone with business experience, but no golf course construction and/or management experience whatsoever.  If someone with expertise wants to jump in, please feel free.  And if I am totally incorrect, PLEASE correct me...as that is the point of this thread to get some real world knowledge flowing.

[George Pazin]

Patience and persistence are probably underrated. After reading Dream Golf and Miracle at Breeze Hill, I'm amazed the owners were able to navigate the crap and get it done; there seems to be a need for a guy to do this (don't ask me!).

[PCCraig]

Guys...thanks!  I've just glanced over this, but I will dig into it more throughout the day.

Brett...you asked about financials and wanted me to educate you on that aspect of it.  Frankly, I don't know if I can educate anyone very well on this thread, but I know a few things about it. 

First and foremost, you have to have capital. 

Secondly, whatever short fall you might have...you need to be able to overcome that with access to capital. 

If the owner has a boat load of money, he has capital and, therefore, access to capital.  No worries. 

If he doesn't have adequate capital himself, he needs to be able to tap into capital.  He could raise capital from friends and potential members.  For example, get a group of 50 guys to kick in $100,000 and becoming founding members.  That is $5 million for seed money.  Loans are also an option, but that avenue is probably really hard to come by these days unless the collateral is amazing.  Securities based loans are available...usually 70 to 80% loan to value with very low interest rates.  I am sure the land can be used as collateral as well, but I am not sure on the loan to value ratios on this and/or the interest rates.

My opinion on this is that to get involved in the building of a course the owner needs to have deep pockets and cash flow from multiple sources.  It most likely would put a strain on the operation and pressure everyone to cut corners to get a finished product online and generating revenue, if the operation is run on a shoestring and/or another cash flow source (business, trust account, huge bond portfolio, etc) isn't in place.

I think this aspect highlights the importance of the right owner regarding the end product of a golf course.

I also think this highlights the need to a TRUSTED partner who knows how to build a course and manage expenses on the job and on the maintenance side of things when the project is done. 

These are just my thoughts from someone with business experience, but no golf course construction and/or management experience whatsoever.  If someone with expertise wants to jump in, please feel free.  And if I am totally incorrect, PLEASE correct me...as that is the point of this thread to get some real world knowledge flowing.

Don't even think about getting a loan. The best projects that make it are those with owners with very deep pockets or a whole lot of equity members. There is such an oversupply of land today that using it as collateral is useless (no bank in the US wants anything to do with raw land right now) and in turn your rate, even if you did get approved, would be sky high and expensive.

The obvious answer to finding capital used to fund a golf course construction is real estate, and it's almost impossible to buy land for a course in an area close to a major city and not fund it with the sale of RE. Hence why the only courses being built today without real estate (on purpose) are in the middle of nowhere (think Sand Hills / Bandon / Cabot Links) where the land is cheap.

Real estate leads owners into having to "market" thier club, leading them into hiring an overpriced and medicore GCA in order to attract interest in the course and properties. Then the next mistake in building a club..."infrastructure." Because people buying homes on the property want roads, parking, food, activities, etc... the owner is forced to build an expensive huge clubhouse and all the extras that people want.

Anyway...an owners expenses can climb in a hurry. There is a reason why new course construction is at a standstill right now!

I think your best bet (assuming you actually want to start, fund, and build a club) would be to build a very low-key club in an area with cheap land. Invite your closest wealthy friends to join (think 50-100 tops). Figure out what it would cost....and divide by 50-100. Instead of a set monthly dues and initiation....take the total expenses for the year and divide by 50-100.

That's if you want to build a new course. You could always buy an existing golf course from a bank somewhere at a huge discount and turn it into whatever you want it to be. But many of those courses are going under for a reason, or 30.

Good luck.

[Mac Plumart]

Pat and all,

Much appreciated.

Again, this is a total hypothetical (as I stated in the first post). 

I think we far too often assume that every golf course was built to be the "best in the world" and we critique and criticize every course in that manner.  I thought by doing this exercise that we could see the different motivations, limitations, and mind-sets of the developer/owner, as I stated in the second post.   

This thread really highlights some of the issues that face owners and this site, in general, shows how every course will be scrutinized from each person's idealized vision of what a golf course should be...which may not be anywhere close to the owners vision and/or reason for building the course.  This point I personally find to be vital to understanding what the actual golf course is.

Thanks again...great stuff!!

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:

Your advice to stay away from loans is excellent.  But, I'm not so sure about the advice to build a course and divide the expenses 50-100 ways.  They won't be your friends forever if they have to pay too high a portion of the operating costs of the club.  There are a lot of courses in America right now with 100-150 members, and the only ones that aren't "in trouble" are the ones where the owner is subsidizing the maintenance of the course.

This ought to be the time of the cycle when a potential course developer with money in the bank could find a great deal on the right piece of property.  But I don't see any of that happening at the moment ... I don't think land prices have come down to realistic yet, with the government and the banks continuing to try to prop them up.

[PCCraig]

Pat:

Your advice to stay away from loans is excellent.  But, I'm not so sure about the advice to build a course and divide the expenses 50-100 ways.  They won't be your friends forever if they have to pay too high a portion of the operating costs of the club.  There are a lot of courses in America right now with 100-150 members, and the only ones that aren't "in trouble" are the ones where the owner is subsidizing the maintenance of the course.

This ought to be the time of the cycle when a potential course developer with money in the bank could find a great deal on the right piece of property.  But I don't see any of that happening at the moment ... I don't think land prices have come down to realistic yet, with the government and the banks continuing to try to prop them up.

Tom:

The reason I gave the example of a club splitting the annual expenses is that I've seen it at a couple of clubs here around Chicago. Granted the members of these clubs are the kind of guys that don't ask "how much" in the first place. In both cases I don't think a mortgage is included in the annual cost, and both operations are modest (one is "modern" and another "classic").

Then again, if annual members dues at a club don't cover the annual expenses then there better be a deep pocket somewhere or a high net worth, otherwise it won't be around for long.

Raw land is pretty much worthless in today's economy and banks own much of it here in Chicago, for example. But it's still land, which historically has been a good long term asset so banks generally don't like the idea of selling it for nothing just to get it off their hair...as many have already written the loans off and have nothing but time now.

[archie_struthers]

 

iIf you like builidng things, there's a whole lot of fun in developing a golf course , at least for us golf nuts. The birthing proces is a mix of politics, art , pragmatism, economics , engineering , and intestinal fortitude. It is at the same time exhilarating , exasperating and extremely educational.

The first step is the obvious why ? As the costs can be quite staggering>  see Doak above.

If the why is that you can afford the time and money to see it to fruition , good for you . With rare exception , the owners are going to have to fund it for a while until the time it becomes self sufficient....and most today don't get there

Assuming the above doesn't slow you down, you have to be prepared for a fairly long siege at the planning stages , particularly in sites that include any water features or are near water.  An inordinate amount of permitting is the norm , and if there is any early push back from the government at your selected site , let the buyer beware. It usually doesn't get easier, as many people for whatever reason like to fight golf course development . This in spite of the obvious open space  and recreational benefits to the public.

In my mind the only real good opportunities these days are for very low end courses , that fill a void that may exist in certain communities , and can run without a lot of ancillary suppot services.  This isn't too exciting for most of us , given the architectural bent of same.

or

places like Bandon, where a visionary like Mike Keiser has the personal wealth to wade thru any potential obstacles and understands a niche market that few would have bet on ....good for him and us!


or

your own place , where money earned is immaterial and you can invest 5-10 million and afford to spend 10% of that a year to have a good time .....and these places do exist....yet the owners typically tire of the toy ...the for who for what syndrome


given this dark analysis ..if you have a good golf course or club in your neighborhood , support them and help them flourish... it's a lot easier to be a member or customer than the potentate!

[Eric Smith]

Mac et al.,

I just finished reading the excellent club history, "Pine Valley Golf Club, a Chronicle" and in it is the letter written by Committee on Organization Chairman, Howard W. Perrin, that was sent out to solicit memberships to a select group of Philadelphia area golfers. The way in which it is written harkens back to simpler times. The financing portion of the letter reads:
                                                                       A tentative plan for financing it is as follows: To pick out 200 to 250 good fellows, who are fond enough of the game and sufficiently interested in a plan of this kind to buy one share of stock, at $100 per share. That will give us $20,000 as a starter. Then eighteen men have already been found, each of whom have agreed to plan and build one hole. In a rough way, it is estimated, that means $1,000 a hole. This is $18,000 more. Then when things get going, an annual due will be charged of some small amount that will be enough to maintain the course.

Good fellows indeed! 141 men answered the call and signed up as charter members as a result of the letter.  

[Mac Plumart]

Excellent stuff, Eric!  Excellent.

I think there is a lot of value in studying how the best clubs got started and contrasting that to clubs that had good courses, but failed.

Thanks!

[Tom_Doak]

Mac:

One of my favorite "foundation" stories is that of Moortown, Dr. MacKenzie's second course.

They had only been able to raise a little bit of seed money, so Dr. MacKenzie advised them to use it to build one hole and show everyone what sort of course it could be.  And he took their money and went out and built a par-3 hole, and a lot of people signed up, so they could finish the rest.

That would be difficult to do today -- you'd have to own the land outright, and in most jurisdictions, you'd need grading permits, use permits, and the like.  But, in the right place, it could still be the way forward.

[Ian Andrew]

They tried that at Wyndansea in BC - a Nicklaus project - and now they have a single oceanside hole gone to fallow.

[Tom_Doak]

Ian:

Is it not better to have built and lost than never to have built at all?

[Ian Andrew]

Is it not better to have built and lost than never to have built at all?

Tom,

I knew you were a really good writer - but I had no idea.... 

[Ronald Montesano]

No, it's not better, just bitter.

I recollect this lesson every time I drive past the 18 fallow holes of The Belfry-Rochester that adjoin both sides of Interstate 90 in western New York. The course opened softly and I actually saw players out there once, some six years ago.  Never opened to the public.

[Mac Plumart]

Tom D...

I mentioned that to some people awhile back, that is the Moortown model.  I think it's got legs.  Time will tell.

Thanks!

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