[Patrick_Mucci]

present and highlight golf course architecture than any other golf event on TV.

Many telecasts seem to be focused on play around and on the greens.

Today I was watching Phil and Freddy play a course in Oklahoma and couldn't help but think at how architecturally friendly, the telecast was.  The numerous camera angles, aerial and ground showed off the design of the holes along with the specific architectural features, be they fairway bunkers, water hazards, green surrounds and putting surfaces.

Shell should be complimented for sponsoring these matches.

I think you see exponentially more architecture on Shell's program than on any other.

What can be done to encourage more GCA friendly, televised events ?

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:

By far the best way to highlight architecture would be to have a golf course architect doing commentary on the broadcast, to explain how the players have put themselves in postion to attack the hole, or put themselves in a bad position.  That would get viewers thinking about the strategy that's designed into golf courses.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick:

By far the best way to highlight architecture would be to have a golf course architect doing commentary on the broadcast, to explain how the players have put themselves in postion to attack the hole, or put themselves in a bad position.  That would get viewers thinking about the strategy that's designed into golf courses.

Tom,

I think that's a great idea.

Who knows better than the person who designed the course, and, some of the announcers seem to be well "off base" with their architectural comments.


Great idea

[John Shimony]

Perhaps rather than helicopter flyovers to give the layout of holes they should use one of those Segway mounted cameras one sees on the British Open telecasts.  The networks could do pre-tournament drive-throughs of all the holes and have the architect, or if they are deceased, someone else with intimate knowledge of the course and architecture, describe what we are seeing and how it will or should affect play.

[David_Tepper]

The Shell's WWOG series has always been as much about featuring the location and venue of each match as it has been about the competition between the two golfers. Since there are only two golfers playing, there is much more time in the broadcast to feature the course itself. In addition, the competition between the two golfers is of little significance and that allows the broadcast a wider scope.

That makes that series of shows rather unique and very much different from the weekly TV broadcasts of professional golf tournaments. By their very nature, those broadcasts have to focus on the event and the competition between the many golfers in the field, rather than the course. That is what the overwhelming majority of the golfers have tuned in to see.  

My sense is some of the TV golf commentators (such as Ian Baker-Finch) have become more "GCA-aware" over the past few years and they do mention how the design of a given hole impacts what shots a player is likely to hit. In addition, the preview shows that the Golf Channel runs the 2 or 3 evenings before each major do devote some time to discussing the GCA-aspect of the course hosting the upcoming event.            

While it certainly could be higher, I think the GCA-awareness of golf on TV is currently higher than it has ever been.  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

It looks like Shell stopped producing these events in 2003. Here is a list of the matches over the years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell's_Wonderful_World_of_Golf

Of course, the Littler v. Nelson match at Pine Valley in 1962 is a classic as is the Snead v. Hogan match in 1965 at Houston .

[Bill_McBride]

Does it seem that recent matches are more promos than in the past?

[Bob_Huntley]

Steve,

Thanks for the list. I must say that if Shell packaged the series into DVD format they would sell well.

Bob

[Tom_Doak]

Does it seem that recent matches are more promos than in the past?

Bill:

It doesn't just seem that way.  It was that way, because the host course had to pony up a lot of $$ to host the event.  That's why pretty much all of the modern courses were real estate golf courses and/or resorts.  (I don't know how Sunningdale and Winged Foot slipped in.)  If there were any exceptions, it would be because one of the players only agreed to play on condition that they host it at one of HIS courses.

What a wonderful world!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Bob,

I think most matches are only on VHS:

http://www.scigolf.com/scigolf/dvd/dvd4.php

The Snead v. Hogan is on DVD as is the Nicklaus v. Snead at Pebble Beach:

http://www.practicerange.com/Hogan-vs-Snead-Shells-World-of-Golf-DVD-P518.aspx


http://www.allgolfshop.com/p749/Nicklaus-vs.-Snead,-Shell&%2339s-Wonderful-World-of-Golf-DVD/product_info.html

[RJ_Daley]

I must have SWWOG mixed up with a skins game, because I remember an event that featured Cape Kidnappers and Kuari Cliffs with Tom Doak and David Harman commentating.  At any rate, that broadcast did a pretty good job of highlighting the architecture.

I think it would be very cool if they did one from the New Prairie Club's two courses.  The lodge and set up there would be ideal.

[Willie_Dow]

Tom, Jack Whitaker lives right across from me here in our Condo outside Philly.

What about getting the two of you together, and evaluate a tape from one of the old films here on GCA ?

Could that be possible, Ran ?

[Sam Morrow]

present and highlight golf course architecture than any other golf event on TV.

Many telecasts seem to be focused on play around and on the greens.

Today I was watching Phil and Freddy play a course in Oklahoma and couldn't help but think at how architecturally friendly, the telecast was.  The numerous camera angles, aerial and ground showed off the design of the holes along with the specific architectural features, be they fairway bunkers, water hazards, green surrounds and putting surfaces.

Shell should be complimented for sponsoring these matches.

I think you see exponentially more architecture on Shell's program than on any other.

What can be done to encourage more GCA friendly, televised events ?

Gallardia is a good course, I can't remember it it's Arthur Hills or Tom Kite though.

[Jay Flemma]

Pat, great thread, and nice to see everyone on it.   A special Merry Christmas to each of you.

I love the show.  It's always a joy and a pleasant surprise to see what they have up next.

I think they should do Garden City and Ballyneal sometime...what about you guys?  What courses would you like to see on the show?

Sure, why not have the archies on...they do it all the itme at majors, and Doak is right...who better?

Dye at WS this year - "Of course it's a bunker.  I know because I built it...what's he doing going 70 yards wide on the 72d hole in the first place?"

[Bill_McBride]

Pat, great thread, and nice to see everyone on it.   A special Merry Christmas to each of you.

I love the show.  It's always a joy and a pleasant surprise to see what they have up next.

I think they should do Garden City and Ballyneal sometime...what about you guys?  What courses would you like to see on the show?

Sure, why not have the archies on...they do it all the itme at majors, and Doak is right...who better?

Dye at WS this year - "Of course it's a bunker.  I know because I built it...what's he doing going 70 yards wide on the 72d hole in the first place?"

Jay, as I asked above and Tom Doak confirmed, the modern series has nothing to do with the best courses, the new show is designed to highlight real estate and resort courses.

I loved the old series, with Gene Sarazen doing the commentary.  The matches are okay on the new series, but the courses are not top rung.

[Peter Pallotta]

Willie - if Tom D and Jack W could get together that would be great. But even if they can't, please don't let a chance for a long talk/interview with Jack slip away. I can't tell you how many times I've done that, eg musicians Toots Mondello and Peanuts Hucko and writer HW Wind -- not that I had anything to offer them, but maybe they wouldve been willing to talk to me anyway.
Peter

[Chris Buie]

You can see a 10 minute clip of Littler v. Nelson here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj04EC-zz2w
They are playing at some course in New Jersey. 
I love the series and wish they would bring it back properly or create the equivalent.  It would be light years better than the pablum they have on the TV now.

[Adam Clayman]

Donald J. Trumps recent effort is likely the best we can hope for. What a pity. I watched for the first time yesterday and boy oh boy ...  he's no Jack Whitaker.

My favorite part was when he said "Fazio" in reference to how the course was built. It seemed a bit too familiar and not specific enough, since there's more than one Fazio in the biz.

[PThomas]

since The Golf Channel could obviously use some new programming, i think this would be good and cheap too:

have a cameraman follow an archiect around a course he designed, and let him explain the holes and his thought processes

[Sam Morrow]

since The Golf Channel could obviously use some new programming, i think this would be good and cheap too:

have a cameraman follow an archiect around a course he designed, and let him explain the holes and his thought processes

That is a great idea and you're right, cheap.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom, Jack Whitaker lives right across from me here in our Condo outside Philly.

What about getting the two of you together, and evaluate a tape from one of the old films here on GCA ?

Could that be possible, Ran ?

Willie:

I'm not sure exactly what that would entail, but I would be happy to get together with Jack Whitaker anytime.  I've only met him once, briefly, at Shinnecock Hills.


Jay F:

I always thought the networks were nuts not to have Pete Dye in the booth for a bit of their telecasts on courses he designed.  I walked around with him quite a bit during the first TPC on the new course at Sawgrass in 1982 ... God did I learn a lot from watching that and listening to him dissect it.

[Joel_Stewart]

Does it seem that recent matches are more promos than in the past?

Bill:

It doesn't just seem that way.  It was that way, because the host course had to pony up a lot of $$ to host the event.  That's why pretty much all of the modern courses were real estate golf courses and/or resorts.  (I don't know how Sunningdale and Winged Foot slipped in.)  If there were any exceptions, it would be because one of the players only agreed to play on condition that they host it at one of HIS courses.

What a wonderful world!

It has to be a corporate boondoggle because I went to the Miller - Nicklaus match at Olympic and Shell brought in bus loads of people for the event.  I want to say they also played the course but can't remember if there was a pro-am.

[Willie_Dow]

Jack is out in the desert right now, but will be back come spring.  I'm off to Vero in early January, but the idea is much on my mind.

Thanks, Pat, for opening our eyes !

[Jay Flemma]

Tom, Jack Whitaker lives right across from me here in our Condo outside Philly.

What about getting the two of you together, and evaluate a tape from one of the old films here on GCA ?

Could that be possible, Ran ?

Willie:

I'm not sure exactly what that would entail, but I would be happy to get together with Jack Whitaker anytime.  I've only met him once, briefly, at Shinnecock Hills.


Jay F:

I always thought the networks were nuts not to have Pete Dye in the booth for a bit of their telecasts on courses he designed.  I walked around with him quite a bit during the first TPC on the new course at Sawgrass in 1982 ... God did I learn a lot from watching that and listening to him dissect it.

He was invaluable to me the entire week at WS.  The preview interview when he called into the other room for "Allie" made me LOL.  Then I spent the entire playoff with he and Kohler, including a walk-over to the spot Dustin Johnson made infamous.  It was great seeing the whole course through his eyes, but also to hear him talk of all his experiences...most of all how much he likes watching the spectators have a good time...he gets a kick out of them roaming his course like they do.

[Ronald Montesano]

I admire the zeal inherent to this thread, yet I believe that the average viewer will miss the point to a great degree, greater than what the GCA Forum zealot would, for one simple reason:  no connection to reality.  The average viewer will never play the course featured on the show; if the commentators/architects are able to directly connect the holes in question to ones on the average golfer's home course, there is a greater chance of investment on the part of the viewer.

Understand that I am not suggesting that these folks include the multitude of courses in the lower 48.  What I am suggesting is that the commentators/archies would speak directly to the viewer, essentially grasping the lens, shaking it and saying "Hey you, CHOP!  The next time you are standing on the XYZ tee on a hole that goes straight/moves left/doglegs right/goes downhill/rises uphill, consider XYZ..."

How do I know this?  Comment writing on the report card for high school students.  When I write "Little Thor should A, B and C..." the comment goes fairly off for the kid.  When I speak in the second person and write "Thor, you should/must/need to A, B and C..." the student recognizes and appreciates the directness of the commentary and concludes that I am speaking to her/him, not to the parents.

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