Future USGA Open course selections

[Ronald Montesano]

Assuming that this be true (http://www.nj.com/golf/index.ssf/2010/12/summit_native_and_usga_executi.html), how will David Fay's retirement influence future course selections for the national championships?  I guess not as much as the appointment of his successor, so I've answered my own question.

[JR Potts]

Nothing  like a thread that never starts.

[Ronald Montesano]

Not true, Potsy...you might have said "the successor will strive to go off in a different direction, ensuring that TPC courses inhabit the list of th 2020s with regularity."  See, that was a tease, so you'll have to do better next time.

[Matt_Ward]

Ron:

The insertion of public courses will continue. Why?

The USGA can extract far more from them than with a number of the private clubs. This is especially so in the Open events held by the USGA.

Certain private clubs will remain but the public / daily fee side will be the more telling point.

[Ronald Montesano]

Matt,

With your pardon,

1...Elaborate on "extract."

2...What additional public courses would be candidates?

[Matt_Ward]

Ron:

Your "pardon" is accepted ...

Extract means what it means. The USGA knows public locations are desirous of the attention and visibility that a Open brings -- especially the Men's event. The USGA can get these locations to host other less revenue-producing events like the Women's Open and leverage that side of the equation to land a Men's Open.

Frankly, the USGA can pit these different public venues against one another just like FIFA does with soccer and the IOC with Olympic sites. The private clubs don't really need a US Open to validate their standing as in years past and they don't have the wherewithal to tap into the kind of $$ that some public locations can muster.

I don't see the USGA completely abandoning private venues because a few of them really want to stay in the rota -- see Oakmont as a good example.

In regards to other public courses -- it's possible the US Open may entertain other locales beyond the most obvious ones.
Bethpage is still a contender -- Erin Hills is another -- Torrey is not out of the equation for the SoCal area. You now have Chambers Bay. Newport National is a fine public layout in the NE area. It would not surprise me to see the Open head to TX with a public option too.

[Ronald Montesano]

Bethpage is the right course at the wrong time of the year...2002 was surviveable; 2009, near-catastrophic thanks to rain both times.  Doesn't benefit from the sandy soil found in the Hamptons.

Erin makes sense, with Chicago 2 hours away and Milwaukee much closer...even those golf-fearing, god-loving (or is it the other way around?) Minnesotans might make the trek, with Minneapolis only 5.5 hours away.

I agree that the mid-southwest definitely deserves a shot at an Open.  Would you see it being a private or a public down that way?  Which courses would be front-runners, in your estimation?  I would have to believe that mid-June is not the deathly-hot season that PGA championship time would be.  How about the south east, or does Pinehurst cover that?

[Phil_the_Author]

For those that are unaware, Bethpage is considering an offer to become part of a three-course rotation for the Barclay's. If they accept this, and the talks are beyond preliminary but not at the decision-making point, then they won't host another U.S. OPen. Likewise if they sign a deal with the PGA. They are also currently speaking with them about hosting either the 2020/21 PGA and the 2028 Ryder Cup.

The USGA going back to Bethpage for another Open is 50/50 at best at this moment and only because some concerned people in both organizations made contact.

[Ronald Montesano]

Philip,
Would you agree that August in NYC, while sauna-esque, is better than the rainfests of June?

[Tim Martin]

Philip,
Would you agree that August in NYC, while sauna-esque, is better than the rainfests of June?

Ron-If you look at average rainfall patterns for NYC August is historically wetter than June. The three driest months are January, June and October. 2002 and 2009 as far as expected rainfall go were unlucky. As far as holding the PGA in the NYC area in August the 2005 PGA at Baltusrol was the equivalent of four days in Hell, 100 degrees with 100 percent humidity. If you are looking for an analogy hotter than Rex Ryan`s wife`s feet.  

[Matt_Ward]

Ron:

The concept of public courses being used more and more is just getting cranked up. Frankly, the US Open will be a sellout at just about any venue it chooses to go to. However, public courses likely have the greater capacity to sell more tickets.

Ron, a number of years ago the NCAA decided that any final four event would need to hold far more than your traditional b-ball arena. If memory serves, I believe the last one held at a traditional b-ball arena was at the Meadowlands. Bethpage could sell 50,000 tickerts without any issue. I'm siure Erin Hills will do no less. Ditto for Chambers Bay. Merion, on the other hand, will need a shoe-horn to get a max of 15-17,000 people on the grounds.

The SoCal market is also a special one and likely will be re-visisted. Maybe they opt for LACC but I don't see the club changing its outright no answer to hosting it.

Ron, plemty of public side situations will now be more prevalent because of what Bethpage, Erin Hills, Torrey and Chambers Bay have done. The private clubs will be part of the mixture but the bar for $$$ is not with them and the USGA is in a much better position because of the involvement of such clubs to extract that much more in the negotiations.

[Phil_the_Author]

Ron,

In the 40 years that I lived in New York I saw a lot of August rain.

Remember, too, if there is too much rain in June to hold the U.S. Open at Bethpage then there is too much rain to hold it at Shinnecock, Winged Foot, Baltusrol, etc...

The rain in 2002 was limited to a single day with a lone brief shower Sunday evening as well. The problem with the rain on Friday was not the ground but the wind and constncy of it. The one in 2009 faced an entire month of rain prior to the Open and, in fact, the ONLY course in the entire area which could have held the Open in even the manner that the Black did was the Black. Anywhere else it would have been cancelled because Bethpage drains far better than any other course in the New York area because of its unique sandy subsurface.

[Ronald Montesano]

Philip.

I did not realize that Bethpage had a sandy subsurface.  I know that Shinnecock does, as do all the courses in the Hamptons, which led me to suggest that they would handle rain much better than does Bethpage.

I guess it's a roll of the dice, as it is anywhere.  I know that when the PGA held its senior championship at Oak Hill a few years back, as many upstate NYers could have told them it would be cold and rainy in May as Welshmen could have told the Ryder Cup folks about weather in Wales in October.  The $$$ speaks louder than common sense and wisdom combined.

[Joel_Stewart]

Ron:

The insertion of public courses will continue. Why?

The USGA can extract far more from them than with a number of the private clubs. This is especially so in the Open events held by the USGA.

Certain private clubs will remain but the public / daily fee side will be the more telling point.

I'm pretty sure the USGA contract for the US Open is the same at all golf courses, private or public.  It's basically a take it or leave it proposition.
 Not sure what you mean in "extract".  The key to the USGA is now days is space, corporate tents, merchandise tents, parking, television city and accomidations.  They need locations larger than 36 holes which is why Bethpage and Pinehurst work so well.