Did they avoid the dramatic dunes in the late 1800/ early 1900 links layouts ?

[Ally Mcintosh]

NO

Melvyn

Do you think Melvyn?

If you take your great grandfather, I'm not sure he worked on any mountainous courses although I will await your correction. Which holes did he advise on at Royal County Down?

The turf must have been key.

[Mark Pearce]

   I don't have an objective gauge of "dramatic" but 50 feet still seems less than dramatic to me.

Mike, look for a five story building and think about hitting a tee shot over it from down the street a few hundred feet.   That's fifty feet.

Bill,

Exactly.  We had a 4 storey building at school which housed, amongst other things, the science labs.  I remember in one lesson measuring the effect of gravity and having to measure the height of that 4 storey block.  35 feet, I think.  A 50 foot dune in play would be very dramatic.

Mark

[Sean_A]

   I don't have an objective gauge of "dramatic" but 50 feet still seems less than dramatic to me.

How high does a dune need to be to seem dramatic to you?  At 50 feet a designer would seriously be pushing the limits.  As examples, I am guessing

St Enodoc's 6th to be about 20-25 feet above the fairway
Sandwich's 4th about the same, maybe a bit less high
Lahinch's Klondyke to be a bit taller than #6 at St Enodoc
Burnhams's 10th to be about 20 feet above the tee

The tallest I would know of would be Burnham's Majuba back in the day and that would probably top out around 35 feet above what would have been the old tee.  I don't know how guys did it with the old equipment.

Ciao

[paul cowley]

The Dunes Course at Diamante in Cabo are in excess of 100' in places and were a challenge, but its not as much the overall height, but the steepness of side slopes and the space between the dune ridges that are the key issues in creating space for a suitable golf hole.

Tom D on his visit there said he had never worked on a site as severe.

Ballybunion New is similar and a great redo opportunity in my mind.

[Tom_Doak]

Paul:

They are still trying to figure out how to fix Ballybunion New.  I couldn't figure out how; maybe you can!

[paul cowley]

Tom....after the first 8 holes I started to redesign with a blank canvas....pass the word if you care...the site is too good to not be what it could be.

[mike_malone]

 I've wondered if Cashen would be better as 12 good holes that had alternate tees for another six on each side. The walk is horrendous there.

[RSLivingston_III]

Tom

Are you familiar with any use of significantly raised tees during the ending decades of the gutty era?
US or UK
I think I have identified one at Kent CC in GR that I believe might date back to the original 1899 course.
I'd really rather know about 1860-1890 courses.