The Great California Flood

[Tim Nugent]

Any news from the Golden State on how many courses suffered from the recent deluge?  Anyone seen the effect to the Barranca on #8? Or was Pacific Palisades spared?

[David_Tepper]

Tim -

Here in the SF Bay Area, we were spared the brunt of the storm, even though it rained 5 days in a row. I don't think the course around here have suffered any material damage. Looks like the area hardest hit was between LA and San Diego.

Here are some pics from SoCal:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2010/12/21/national/a161609S07.DTL&object=%2Fc%2Fpictures%2F2010%2F12%2F22%2Fba-California_St_0502735902.jpg

DT

[astavrides]

I'm going to LA tomorrow for 4 days.  Any courses or regions (e.g. Inland empire, orange county, soule park, rustic, olivas, etc) particularly playable or unplayable as a result of the rains?

[Mike Benham]

Any news from the Golden State on how many courses suffered from the recent deluge?  Anyone seen the effect to the Barranca on #8? Or was Pacific Palisades spared?

#8 on which course?

Qualcomm Stadium, some of the hotels got hit pretty hard.  Riverwalk is probably underwater but that is no great loss ... (San Diego)

[Kyle Henderson]

Any news from the Golden State on how many courses suffered from the recent deluge?  Anyone seen the effect to the Barranca on #8? Or was Pacific Palisades spared?

#8 on which course?

He must mean the "restored" water channel at Riviera.

[Pete Lavallee]

Actually, Riverwalk in San Diego's Hotel Circle is offering a $19.99 nine hole special, with cart, today. Of course that's because the other 18 are completely submerged under 14 feet of water! The Friars 9, on the high ground by Friars Road will be open today. The embankment for the trolley tracks have kept the flood waters out of that nine. Here's the best photo I could find:

[DMoriarty]

Played Rustic this morning and it was in very good shape.   The course has had eight inches of rain but no damage at all and very little runoff through the barranca.   The greens were a little soft and there was some water in bunkers, but the turf was not even a bit soggy.    A sand base is a wonderful thing.    It always amazes me how beautiful Southern California can be after it rains.

As for Los Angeles, my concern was more about LACC given all the new barranca work that might not be quite grown in, but I haven't heard anything about either Riviera or LACC or any other courses.    There has been a lot of rain but it hasn't all come in an abrupt deluge, so hopefully there hasn't been much erosion damage.

Here is an OLD PHOTO of Rustic as a reminder of how destructive run-off damage can be.

[Bill_McBride]

Played Rustic this morning and it was in very good shape.   The course has had eight inches of rain but no damage at all and very little runoff through the barranca.   The greens were a little soft and there was some water in bunkers, but the turf was not even a bit soggy.    A sand base is a wonderful thing.    It always amazes me how beautiful Southern California can be after it rains.

As for Los Angeles, my concern wass more about LACC given all the new barranca work that might not be quite grown in, but I haven't heard anything about either Riviera or LACC or any other courses.    There has been a lot of rain but it hasn't all come in an abrupt deluge, so hopefully there hasn't been much erosion damage.

Here is an OLD PHOTO of Rustic as a reminder of how destructive run-off damage can be.

David, I was wondering (and worrying) about Rustic.  Why do you think there would be less water running down through the course this time?  Just a lot less rain? 

[Tim Nugent]

Any news from the Golden State on how many courses suffered from the recent deluge?  Anyone seen the effect to the Barranca on #8? Or was Pacific Palisades spared?

#8 on which course?

He must mean the "restored" water channel at Riviera.

Thanks Kyle, you are correct. Another case of the brain working faster than the fingers.

[David_Tepper]

I played Pauma Valley CC, a RT Jones course is northern San Diego County, the first weekend of December. The front nine of the course is routed around and across a large grassed-in drainage channel that is anywhere from 30- to 50-yards across and 4- to 6-feet deep in spots. It was bone dry when I was there, but my guess is it isn't today.   

[Ian Andrew]

Floods got the Eastern Provinces in Canada too.

This is Highlands Links 6th hole

[DMoriarty]

Bill,
 There was no water running down the wash at all this morning, even though the road in was still wet from the rain. It looked as if there may have been a trickle no more than a foot or two wide through the barranca yesterday or sometime recently, but no standing or running water in the barranca at all.

I think that this is pretty normal.   When Rustic first opened there was a deep channel within the barranca, but in some places it was only a few feet wide.  My guess is that it was cut from decades (centuries?) of run-off from storms like this last one, or worse.

There was definitely a lot more rain in the storm before that photo was taken, at least three times as much, and it fell over a shorter period of time.    

But the real difference is that there had been a major fire that burnt the watershed for miles above the course, leaving little mature vegetation to stop the water. Here is a photo of the 11th green with the 13th fairway in the background. The fire damage around the course wasn't the major problem, it was the fire damage for miles above the course.  



Fortunately, things have grown back since then.

[Peter Ferlicca]

Out here in Coachella Valley, all the courses that have the main wash running through them are ruined.  Cimmaron in Cathedral City will probably be closed for at least 2 weeks.  Many courses that have the wash run through golf holes will have to come up with a shorter alternate routing for at least a week.  Courses such as Morningside, Thunderbird, Rancho Las Palmas, Monterey, Tahquitz Creek, Cathedral Canyon all have holes that cross over the wash.  Out here in Palm Desert, when we have a huge rain storm the town shuts down, gas stations start closing, it is quite hilarious.

[David_Tepper]

PFerlicca -

I am curious - on the courses that have "the main wash" you mentioned, is this a grassed-in channel of some sort that is in play and mown from time to time or is it a concrete-lined drainage canal of some sort? Or is it a barranca filled with rocks & weeds that is played as a hazard?

DT   

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,
 There was no water running down the wash at all this morning, even though the road in was still wet from the rain. It looked as if there may have been a trickle no more than a foot or two wide through the barranca yesterday or sometime recently, but no standing or running water in the barranca at all.

I think that this is pretty normal.   When Rustic first opened there was a deep channel within the barranca, but in some places it was only a few feet wide.  My guess is that it was cut from decades (centuries?) of run-off from storms like this last one, or worse.

There was definitely a lot more rain in the storm before that photo was taken, at least three times as much, and it fell over a shorter period of time.    

But the real difference is that there had been a major fire that burnt the watershed for miles above the course, leaving little mature vegetation to stop the water. Here is a photo of the 11th green with the 13th fairway in the background. The fire damage around the course wasn't the major problem, it was the fire damage for miles above the course.  

Fortunately, things have grown back since then.

Very glad to hear it, David.

[Randy St John]

The 18th and 16th greens at Wilshire CC about to go under yesterday afternoon. Walking only until at least Sunday, but no damage to speak of.

[Alex Miller]

Played a Tiger's old stomping grounds today, Dad Miller. They had a new lake over holes 4,16,17, and 18. We only played the nine they had open. Glad to hear Rustic is doing well. Will try to hit that next week.

I can't really complain though because at least we are able to golf most of the winter  . PM me if anyone is thinking of playing Rustic in the upcoming week.

[Dale Jackson]

PFerlicca -

I am curious - on the courses that have "the main wash" you mentioned, is this a grassed-in channel of some sort that is in play and mown from time to time or is it a concrete-lined drainage canal of some sort? Or is it a barranca filled with rocks & weeds that is played as a hazard?

DT   

Not to steal Peter's thunder but there is at least one (maybe others?) main channel that has been built to handle severe water runoffs in the Coachella Valley.  In several spots parts or all of golf courses have been built in and around the wash.  The wash is normally dry but yesterday it was anything but!  I can well believe the holes in the wash on any of those courses will be out of commission for some time.

I played The Classic Club this morning, and while carts were on paths only (sorry Melvin), the work they had done to make the course playable was really impressive.  By the time we finished mid-afternoon, other than some washed out bunkers the course was very playable.

[Peter Ferlicca]

Here are some pictures I took of the wash with a river running through.  There was a driving range underneath that, but probably will not be back open for 1 month to remove all the silt.

[Ronald Montesano]

Ian,

Where else in the maritimes did flooding hit?  We've had no news of this in western New York.

Ron M.

[Jon Spaulding]

Out here in Coachella Valley, all the courses that have the main wash running through them are ruined.  Cimmaron in Cathedral City will probably be closed for at least 2 weeks.  Many courses that have the wash run through golf holes will have to come up with a shorter alternate routing for at least a week.  Courses such as Morningside, Thunderbird, Rancho Las Palmas, Monterey, Tahquitz Creek, Cathedral Canyon all have holes that cross over the wash.  Out here in Palm Desert, when we have a huge rain storm the town shuts down, gas stations start closing, it is quite hilarious.

Peter, in the context of this discussion group, it'd probably be a good thing if most of those courses got wiped out......exception being Cimarron which was relatively fun the one time I played it. They allow(ed) walking which at the time was an anomaly.

Nice photo of the channel.

I did not have time to go down to my course and take photos, but did say a prayer that it would get washed away......

On the way to getting voluntarily bent-over and price-gouged at the Apple store Wednesday, I did note that the water in San Juan creek flowing into Doheny State Beach was as high as my eyes have seen. The bridge washed out in the Winter of 1969 but was elevated slightly and made it this time.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

It amazes me how what we look at as a normal very heavy rain completely upsets the apple cart in California drainage should solve all golf course issues unless erosion takes place.  I was however so impressed with how they got that stadium from under water to playable in a day.

[Ian Andrew]

Where else in the maritimes did flooding hit?  We've had no news of this in western New York.

New Brunswick is devestated in places since they have been hit multiple times with 3-4" of rain.

Highlands Links had 4" in one storm and the damage is extensive.

[Matt_Cohn]

Video on riverwalk:

http://www.10news.com/news/26270500/detail.html#