Tilly's Shackamaxon up for sale...

[Matt_Ward]

Just to get back to the Shack thread -- I can't see the housing side of the equation going well. The existing neighborhood would fight like crazy to prevent high density housing tracts -- I do agree that there's much to be decided as Steve L correctly pointed out. Losing a Tillie layout would be a major loss though and should be avoided if at all possible.

[archie_struthers]

   

to k moran


Infidels yes , little no !

[Patrick_Mucci]

Everyone has to sacrifice in order to solve these problems, trouble is, NO ONE wants to sacrifice.

Patrick,

I hear this all the time, in fact someone just opined on this in the Opinion page of my local newspaper. What is it precisely that I need to sacrifice? Your statement has become a cliche, it is meaningless. Tell me exactly what you believe you need to sacrifice to be a part of the solution and not the problem.  

Maybe it's meaningless to you because you've accepted irresponsible financial practices as the norm.
Sound financial practices have to become the linch pin of all decisions.

Public Unions have to agree to scalebacks in benefits, the elimination of 20 and out and the elimination of  trebling of overtime in order to exponentially increase retirement benefits.

Government spending has to be controlled and tax revenues HAVE to BE DEDICATED.

You want to fix the bridges, tunnels and roads, that's what the gasoline tax was for, except that somewhere along the way, gasoline tax revenues were no longer dedicated for their intended purpose and instead, became part of the general treasury.

Cigarette and liguor taxes should be dedicated to healthcare.

For years and years and years, legislative bodies have been laden with too many lawyers and not enough accountants.

No more robbing or borrowing from Peter to pay Paul.

In other words sound fiscal policy has to be restored at every level, municipal, county, state and federal.

And, this has to occur simultaneously, not sequentially.

Vote, get involved in the election process? I think many of us have been doing this and what do we get in return? Well, I'll hold my opinion on the quality of the elected officials we seem to get in return, but it has led to believe that our salvation as a democratic government no longer lies in the elected officials as they have done a great disservice to our country. Maybe this is where you are headed with your meaningless statement, maybe there is something to what you and a million others keep repeating, so please elaborate.

You may think that financial discipline and prudent financial practices are meaningless, I don't.

Somewhere along the way, legislatures and bureacracies dismissed them.
It's time that fiscal discipline became THE foundation for rescuing our country.

You can either hold officials accountable, elected, appointed and career, or continue to let them run amuck with your money, your kids money and your grand and great grandkids money.

Every expense should be questinoed.

And each project should be put to the following question, "how are you going to pay for this, TODAY

[Patrick_Mucci]

KBM,

To distill the issue down to the lowest level, the municipal level, let's take a rather affluent city/town like Boca Raton, Florida.

I think everyone values the efforts and contributions of public employees/servants, but, the pension costs are growing, sometimes exponentially, while the funding mechanisms/sources are diminishing.

From 2005/06 to 2009/10 the Pension costs ALONE have risen as follows.

Year                Executive & General       Police             Fire                 Total

2005/06          3,454,127                     1.351.837      3,351,080          7,958,044

2009/10          3,403,893                     2,958,586      3,300,858          9,663,337

That's a snapshot of the historical record of JUST the Pension costs.

The projections for 2014/15 are far worse.

As the say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

One of the primary reasons that the city finds itself in this dilema is a reason that many cities find them selves in this dilema.

Originally, generous pensions were deemed a stealty way of counterbalancing what was once lower pay scales for public employees.

Pensions rarely received the kind of scrutiny that basic compensation and pay raises received, thus they were invisible for many, many years, until the liability became so large that it couldn't be dismissed as trifling,, let alone ignored.

In addition, in order to keep costs down, excessively high and unrealistic interest rate crediting was employed in calculating contribution and future liability costs

When you examine the relationship between ELECTED city officials, and the public servant unions, which represent a large voting block, it's easy to see that it's not an arms length relationship, that it's a relationship fraught with potential conflicts of interest.

Adding to the city's dilema is reduced revenues.
Home values are decreasing, hence revenues on property taxes have plummeted with NO relief in sight.

So, what should happen.

'Property taxes should go up, BUT ONLY if Pension beneifts are revised to reflect a more prudent policy.

No more treble overtime to exponentially inflate benefits.
No more 20 and out.

Let public employees earn a good pension in the same manner as traditional or private sector pensions are earned, calculated and administered.

That's just common sense. 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

As long as we're not talking Shackamaxon here, let me chime in:

Here's a town that just stopped making pension payments:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Alabama-Towns-Failed-Pension-nytimes-93215960.html?x=0

Chapter 9 Bankruptcy will be a growth industry for lawyers:

http://www.alleghenyinstitute.org/government/munbankruptcy.html

[Kris Shreiner]

I think Mr. Reed shows that you can make tough, practical choices AND still keep people on your side. He showed the union folks, clearly, how business (crazy giveaways) as usual would mean a bankrupt, unsustainable pension program longterm.

Where he REALLY gets it, and this is a lesson for everyone on this site and worldwide...was his re-investing in those struggling communities...by re-opening the community recreation centers and pools. If you couple that approach, with soild mentorship and educational tie-ins...YOU CHANGE LIVES....and begin to turn a society in decline and decay into one of positive progress, learning and optimism. If you also apply sound business principles, engaging community investment and ongoing engagement in sustaining the project's goals and continuity, it will remain a successful, desired community asset.

It isn't easy or sexy, doesn't have an immediate, fat quarterly return...but that friends is how it's done! In my view, urban and other municipal golf properties, especially those with good bones that have just been neglected through poor management or unrealitic funding...are where American golf should really focus much of it's resources going forward. Look at when the game has been healthiest in the U.S., and I'm not talking profit-wise for an industry. When was the game a postive, popular part of the fabric in the areas it was found? It certainly isn't now in many places and a big reason for that is the lack of strong, leadership-driven mandate to re-tool and re-energize our fading gems.

To just host a U.S. Open at a public golf venue, with millions pumped into it to get it ready for a Tour presentation, is hardly the finish line on the issue. It should be an opening act. Why not re-invest significant dollars generated from that event back into the very thing you claim to be so proud to embrace and showcase?

Mr. Fay just announced, during his retirement memo, 2010 was the most profitable financial year in USGA history. Wonderful! Now how about putting the game, not just conducting championships, front and center.

With collaboration, both with the other principle, administrative bodies such as the PGA TOUR, PGA of AMERICA, WORLD GOLF FOUNDATION, and other golf industry and outside expertise, develop a program to identify and structure re-furbishing, with community partnerships, underserved municipal  golf properties nationwide. I'm certain such a program would have far reaching benefits, that could build on and eclipse the impact of First Tee(which has been showered with tens of milions of dollars), as it would help provide access and exposure to golf for ALL age groups. Why not?

[Patrick_Mucci]

KBM,

I've advocated for "Pay as you Go" all of my life, personally and on every Board that I've been on.

Everyone will have to sacrifice as part of the solution is increased tax revenues for everyone, not just those deemed rich.

I have to laugh at the assertion that someone living in New York City who makes $ 200,000 a year is either rich or a millionairre.

The politics of envy must cease,  hard work should be rewarded, not punished.
And common sense and prudent accounting must become SOP if we're to emerge from the mess that these morons/egomaniacs that we trusted to do the right thing, have gotten us into.

End of rant

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

The situation in Prichard AL is not the way to go. Failure on that front has severe consequences and it should show others what can happen if that particular instance is magnified that many times over.

The reality is that public sector unions needs to understand that failure to make meaningful concessions now will only mean less people on the streets for public saefty (see Jersey City, Newark, AC and Camden) and those at the top end will demonstrate that outright greed is their only concern. Christie beats up the teacher's union in NJ because it failed to support him -- he is way too slient on the police and fire side of the equation when you look at what they earn and receive.

Kelly asks for sacrifices and he's spot on. The reality is that the $$ is in the health care and pensions. Without reform there -- the ner result will be a future heading more towards what you read about Prichard AL and that is, in my min, a dead end street no one should accept.

Now back to Shack --

Steve, not too many years ago the course was rated among the stat'e top 20 courses -- it's a shame what has happened because with just a few tweaks and other course improvements the layout can once again be a very good one.

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