[JWL]

Paul
I found your explanation about the stops and starts at Diamante interesting.    It is often amazing how little control of various things we have on a project, and then read where people play and critique courses without any understanding of the compromises that are often necessary just to get the project completed.   Well done...maybe our paths will cross in Cabo with GT early in the New Year.    Cheers

[Greg Tallman]

Paul
I found your explanation about the stops and starts at Diamante interesting.    It is often amazing how little control of various things we have on a project, and then read where people play and critique courses without any understanding of the compromises that are often necessary just to get the project completed.   Well done...maybe our paths will cross in Cabo with GT early in the New Year.    Cheers

Which reminds me... I owe you an answer... coming soon Seņor Lipe

[Carl Nichols]

For those who live in or have visited Cabo, if I were planning a 4- or 5-day golf trip to Cabo, how would you prioritize the courses -- and how much driving would be involved? 

[Greg Tallman]

For those who live in or have visited Cabo, if I were planning a 4- or 5-day golf trip to Cabo, how would you prioritize the courses -- and how much driving would be involved? 

Carl

Must Plays - CDS Ocean and Diamante
Next Level - CDS Desert, Palmilla, Bay of Dreams (2.5 hours-overnight trip a good idea), Querencia (private but available with introduction)
Fillers - Club Campestre San Jose, Cabo Real
Too Private(No Access) - El Dorado

Good home base would be Hilton or one of our on site hotels; Sheraton or Fiesta Americana.

Shoot me a PM and I would be happy to discuss further

[Michael Dugger]

I think this course looks fantastic.  The setting is just epic, the long views...the beach and dunes.  It is quite unique insofar as there is little to see except golf and nature.  Just tremendous...

[George Freeman]

I think this course looks fantastic.  The setting is just epic, the long views...the beach and dunes.  It is quite unique insofar as there is little to see except golf and nature.  Just tremendous...

Michael,

It is really hard to show in pictures just how epic the setting is.  My particular pictures do absolutely nothing to portray it properly.  I'll post a couple pictures this weekend which will hopefully show it better.  It is a really magnificent spot.

[Carl Nichols]

For those who live in or have visited Cabo, if I were planning a 4- or 5-day golf trip to Cabo, how would you prioritize the courses -- and how much driving would be involved? 

Carl

Must Plays - CDS Ocean and Diamante
Next Level - CDS Desert, Palmilla, Bay of Dreams (2.5 hours-overnight trip a good idea), Querencia (private but available with introduction)
Fillers - Club Campestre San Jose, Cabo Real
Too Private(No Access) - El Dorado

Good home base would be Hilton or one of our on site hotels; Sheraton or Fiesta Americana.

Shoot me a PM and I would be happy to discuss further

Thanks Greg; appreciate it.  Need to get down there, just trying to figure out when.

[Eric Smith]

Really have enjoyed the tour thus far, George.  Diamante looks to be one very special golf course.  I've enjoyed viewing the photos from their website for some time and noticed a particularly attractive piece of golf course real estate offered for sale on there. If you haven't taken the online tour of villa #5, here is the link.... http://diamantecabosanlucas.com/gallery/photos/golf_villa5/  I think it is the perfect golf course home.

[paul cowley]

Thanks Jim and Michael

More on #12 George. Don't know if you found it but there is a special garden spot if you can hit a drive up the left fairway towards and through the large mounding where a ball can run out to a flat area with a perfect angle to the green...about 185 yds away. You need to challenge the lake though, but worth it IMO.

#13 is one of the prime candidates to finish the bunker detailing and perimeter sandy waste areas. It needs just a little to gain a lot.

[Greg Tallman]

George

#13 is where it was originally planned. We resisted putting it on the lagoon, instead opting for its transitional position up the slope of the dune. We felt water holes were not what the course design needed. The lagoon was a given as it is our irrigation pond, and I spent much time trying to make it naturally looking in the desert environment....as opposed to a Palm Springs creation. I stole aquatic plant species from the estuary at San Jose, and the birds, fish and wildlife flocked there on their own. It was designed to allow for 4 or 5' of shoreline fluctuation. I like it. I also like your photo tour.

Paul - The environmental czar of Mexico would like to have a word with you... and trust me, she is one tough cookie!

 

[paul cowley]

Please let the Czarina know I will look forward to an audience if she chooses.

[Greg Tallman]

Please let the Czarina know I will look forward to an audience if she chooses.

Obviously joking but taking from the estuary... pretty wiley move there Seņor Cowley. It turned out pretty darn good.

[Jud_T]

The jury's in, if I can walk the course anyone can (minus the shuttle from 9 green to 10 tee).  Congrats Paul, the place blew me away and some of the dunes reminded me of Kingsley (seventeen is essentially a sister hole to KC seventeen).  Place is world class.  Had a high standard to reach after Cabo del Sol Ocean and Bay of Dreams, but this place takes the cake.  I'll post some additional pix when I get back to the frozen tundra, but no 2 dimensional image can do justice to the scope of this place...My preconceptions about Love Design (and Nicklaus for that matter) have been shattered...Is it true that Mickelson has signed on to do the other 18 and they're planning on moving ahead in 18 months?

[Jud_T]

some additional pix of the front nine:

[Jud_T]

[Greg Tallman]

So, How did you fair from on the last pic... just short on #9... club selection?

[Jud_T]

not well...hit a pitching wedge into the hill and it came back down...that was actually one of my only minor beefs.  from there the shot that's really required is a flop shot but hitting a 60-degree wedge off that turf is a pretty low percentage play.  The slope is really too steep to play a running shot effectively.  Unless you just take your medicine and hit something over to the back fringe or well right, which in hindsight was probably the play, or if you're not a big hitter just lay back to you're proper wedge distance I guess...I don't mind the big slope as much on 17 because you're coming in with a short club, although someone capable of getting home in 2 might feel otherwise.  I think my favorite hole is #8...

[Greg Tallman]

not well...hit a pitching wedge into the hill and it came back down...that was actually one of my only minor beefs.  from there the shot that's really required is a flop shot but hitting a 60-degree wedge off that turf is a pretty low percentage play.  The slope is really too steep to play a running shot effectively.  Unless you just take your medicine and hit something over to the back fringe or well right, which in hindsight was probably the play, or if you're not a big hitter just lay back to you're proper wedge distance I guess...I don't mind the big slope as much on 17 because you're coming in with a short club, although someone capable of getting home in 2 might feel otherwise.  I think my favorite hole is #8...

With the exception of 17 we think alike.

I love 8... pictures cannot make it compare to the other "eye candy" laden holes but it is as fun and thought provoking as any.
9 green - wholeheartedly agree... missed opportunity and a hole that disturbs the "flow of the round" with not only flat tee shot (no big deal) but the green itself. Have commented to Paul that a massive geen with huge fall from back to front would have been preferable and more in keeping with the rest of the course... obviously he disagrees

17 is juts not to my liking... love the tee shot where you have a hard time figuring out the proper line, the second shot that again gives you options n the layup... but the green site... not a fan. I always go back to the same question which is. - Can a lady who generates minimal clubhead speed EVER get the ball high enough to reach the green? Even from the bottom of the hilll I doubt most have a chance.

[Jud_T]

The reason I don't mind 17 so much is that 17 at my home club, Kingsley, has essentially the same massive dune you have to climb to the green.  I think I actually prefer the one at Diamante because anyone who hits 2 decent shots will have a wedge or 9-iron in there hands.  At Kingsley, if you're not within 135 yards, and it takes 2 pretty good whacks to get to that distance, you probably won't have enough loft to get it up and hold it anywhere near the green, and you end up with a short layup as your ball rolls back down the slope or you're over in the crap if you don't find the rear bunker.  Some here will tell you I hit like a lady anyway....

[George Freeman]

#15
The fifteenth is a shorter par 4 that heads directly out towards the sea and dead into the wind (making it play much longer).  The teeing ground is close to being on grade with the fairway, limiting your view of hole.  There is a large falloff/ridge on the right side of the fairway that is hidden from view, however this feature makes the fairway play quite a bit larger than it appears.  Any drive other than the far left of the fairway results in a shot over scrub to an interesting green full of contour.  Really interesting hole that I would like another shot at.



Sorry, only one picture of the drive.  Another 20 yards or so of fairway extends past where the fairway appears to end in this pic.

[Jud_T]

George,

Another very good hole that really plays much longer on that exposed part of the course.  You can get all kinds of lies if you find the gunk short and right of the green (I should know!).  It's deceptive in the sense that if you've been playing a 1 club wind all the way around all the sudden it's a 2 or 3 club wind out on the point...

[Greg Tallman]

Would only add to George's comment that only tee shots finding the far left edge of the fairway have a clear shot to the green.

It is almost impossible to find that far left edge of the fairway. I have hit seevral what I thought were perfect(left center) tee shots that did not stop until in the scrubby waste.

Looking at George's phot0 pretty much any ball hit at the flag from the tee and not cutting is in the scrub... stay right.

[George Freeman]

Would only add to George's comment that only tee shots finding the far left edge of the fairway have a clear shot to the green.

It is almost impossible to find that far left edge of the fairway. I have hit seevral what I thought were perfect(left center) tee shots that did not stop until in the scrubby waste.

Looking at George's phot0 pretty much any ball hit at the flag from the tee and not cutting is in the scrub... stay right.

Greg,

Are you talking about the scrub directly at the end of the fairway?  As the yardage book states, it's 304 from the tips to the end of the fairway, and 273 from tee II.  Into any kind of wind I would guess that scrub is pretty unreachable for most?  This hole plays directly into the prevailing wind, correct?

[paul cowley]

You are correct George. #15 is a hole that we did little except clear the scrub while leaving the existing contours, including the green, and then irrigate and grass....similar to #7's efforts. The area to the right of the drive leaves a very interesting elevated blind shot to one of the largest greens on the course. The area was aerodynamically stable in its existing state and we didn't want to temp the wind gods.

I have always found reaction to #9 interesting....it finds its way into the top 3 of about half of those who play it. The existing cacti forest was strong enough to leave intact...the arroyo was a given...necessitating a green elevation to rise above major erosion events.

I'm pleased to see that #8 gets similar ratings from some. The site was totally flat...a "step child" hole in its raw state. Often these type of holes end up much better than the site gives...probably because more thought is required building something from nothing as opposed to having to react to and incorporate existing terrain features. I know I'm not the only one with similar feelings.

[Greg Tallman]

Would only add to George's comment that only tee shots finding the far left edge of the fairway have a clear shot to the green.

It is almost impossible to find that far left edge of the fairway. I have hit seevral what I thought were perfect(left center) tee shots that did not stop until in the scrubby waste.

Looking at George's phot0 pretty much any ball hit at the flag from the tee and not cutting is in the scrub... stay right.

Greg,

Are you talking about the scrub directly at the end of the fairway?  As the yardage book states, it's 304 from the tips to the end of the fairway, and 273 from tee II.  Into any kind of wind I would guess that scrub is pretty unreachable for most?  This hole plays directly into the prevailing wind, correct?

Talking about left George and yes the prevailing wind makes the length of the fairway largely irrelevant but balls hit down the left center will trickle into the scrub frequently. As noted I have done it a handful of times when hitting on a line that appears perfect... last time playing companion stated "perfect shot" to which I said "nope I am in the ?%$#" and sure enough I was a foot or two in the gunch, still playable but not position A as it would have appeared to be from the tee. That said I really like the hole though playing in a horserace format there last year hit second shot from bottom fairway to the far back pin... thought it was perfect.. again a few feet to far or too far left... or both!... death was the result.

Don't get me wrong, I get a real kick from playing 14-15-16 particularly in a 35 MPH wind... it's just fun. Nothing quite like 132 yard 5-irons on 16! From the tips of roughly 160 you will need a hybrid or straight faced iron on many, many days.

As noted earlier in the thread picking the correct tees or better stated a better combination of tees is of paramount importance. Diamante may actually be the best example of a course that coudl go without tee markers and make it more interesting.

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