[Greg Tallman]

George,

Is there anything there there- clubhouse, houses, houses under construction? What is the travel time from Palmilla? How much is the round trip taxi? I'm thinking of a trip this winter.

Thanks.

Steve,

They have a "temporary" club house (in quotations b/c the temp clubhouse is nicer than half of the real clubhouses I have been to) and a few homes are under construction.  I'm not sure how far it is from Palmilla, but it is about a 20 min ride from the harbor in Cabo.  The taxi ride is about $25 each way from there.

From palimilla you are looking at 50-65 USD each way and about 35-40 minutes depending on traffic in the one bad section (traffic bad) you have to drive through.

[Greg Tallman]

Add my thanks for the pics and tour George, very enjoyable.  The diagrams and your notes are a big plus.

The course doesn't look as hard in the pics as those course and slope ratings would seem to imply--or maybe I'm trying to say it looks like more fun than difficult.  What did you think about it from the tees you played on the Goldilocks scale  -too hard, just right, or too easy?  I note the front has 3 par 3s, so is it a tale of two nines, one that's a lot of fun, and one that requires you to bear down?

How did your lovely bride-to-be like it?

Eric, You have pretty much nailed it... with no wind the course is actually pretty easy. With a 15 MPH wind it is a blast and with a 30 MPH wind (not at all uncommon) it is a moster.

No wind - Tips
15 MPH - Combo I & II
30 MPH - Combo II & III

[paul cowley]

George:
Walkable?

Yes, it is walkable.  We didn't walk, but I wish we had.  I met a gentleman later in the trip who played quite a few rounds at Diamante during the week and walked all of them.  He said other than one or two decent walks from green to tee, the course was very walkable.

Negatory - I am as big of a fan of Diamante as any but for anyone to label it walkable would be a pretty good stretch. 9 green to 10 tee is probably more than a half mile and from 13 green to 14 tee another major excursion. 6 to 7 is no picnic either.

Wimp....I always walk and I'm 59...9 to 10 about 300 yds...13 to 14 about the same....love ya though

[Peter Pallotta]

Call me crazy, but when I look at No. 8 I think I see the hand of someone who is very famiiliar with Pebble Beach's 'inland' holes.

I like very much the fact that when the terrain is flat the hole is too. 

Thanks, George.

Peter

[Sean_A]

Sean...it leads to the next tees which you can see on the rear edge of the dune. Part of the grassing was to help with dune stabilization as this was one of the more exposed locations, but just too good of an area not to explore. The entire hole is as minimal as  it gets...just a little clearing and added irrigation. The next hole was built entirely from scratch.

Paul

Cheers.  Because its a long par 3 was there any thought to leaving space beyond the green as a safehaven?

Ciao

[paul cowley]

Sean

Definitely. The entire area behind the green is a large backstop with a fronting ridge that creates a bowl effect. The back third of the green is unpinable as it ties into the slope behind. One can easily hit 1 to almost 2 extra clubs and still have the ball roll back to the center. Missing short is more of a penalty as your chip is blind and you are hitting into a short grass slope that requires some height to get back over the low ridge.

The last time I played there...slightly down wind around 260 yds...my group was hitting hybrids and 4/3 woods and coming up short. I chose driver and hit it on the back of the green and rolled past 10 yds and we watched the ball roll slowly back to 3' and a birdie. The group watching from behind asked I used and I told them to take whatever club would get them past the green and I watched two of them do the identical thing and both balls were within 8' of the pin. I was told later that they both converted. Fun and gratifying. I'm trying to get Senor Tallman to do the same.

I also birdied the next hole...a some what drivable par 4. I consider both holes as 3.5 pars.

The next two holes...9's around a 4.25 par 4 and 10's a solid 4.5 par 4....take it all back.

The 17th was designed the same way with a backstop....you definitely need to hit long because short is much more penal.

Chow  

[George Freeman]

#10
The tenth is one of the more impressive tee shots on the course for me.  The fairway is shared with the 14th and is HUGE.  That is a good thing b/c the hole is a brute, even though it plays downwind.  After the drive, everything else is uphill a good amount.  I hit a pretty good drive and left a 5-wood short of the green.  There is a nice ridge coming in from the right about 75-100 yds short of the green.  Definitely one of the tougher holes on the course IMO.



The massive shared fairway



Interesting bunker shaping in the photo below (taken from Greg Tallman's photo tour dated Oct. 2009).  It would be interesting to hear Paul discuss why it went from that to the shape above?


Make sure you clear the fairway bunker / ridge, otherwise this is your view from about 300 out:


Looking back up to the tees from the landing area.

[George Freeman]

#11
The eleventh is a mid-length, uphill par 3.  The obvious bad area to miss is the massive and deep bunker at the front left of the green.  The whole green complex is sloped in such a manner that balls can find there way into the bunker (as my Fiance's did after rolling on the green for about 20 feet).  The back right pin placement is a real zinger as there is a 20-30 ft almost straight down drop off directly off the far back portion of a green (shaved at green height, leading to a sandy grave).  Amazing views from up top.





Where not to be.  Her ball was on the green for about four seconds.


Awesome views.  Right where the green ends in this picture is the massive drop off.  You could literally putt off into oblivion.

[Peter Pallotta]

Wow. Beautiful and elegant. Truth is beauty? Aye.

[Greg Tallman]

George:
Walkable?

Yes, it is walkable.  We didn't walk, but I wish we had.  I met a gentleman later in the trip who played quite a few rounds at Diamante during the week and walked all of them.  He said other than one or two decent walks from green to tee, the course was very walkable.

Negatory - I am as big of a fan of Diamante as any but for anyone to label it walkable would be a pretty good stretch. 9 green to 10 tee is probably more than a half mile and from 13 green to 14 tee another major excursion. 6 to 7 is no picnic either.

Wimp....I always walk and I'm 59...9 to 10 about 300 yds...13 to 14 about the same....love ya though

Paul - 300 yards? No way baby. Why would one need a shuttle service for a 300 yard walk?

[Greg Tallman]

#10
The tenth is one of the more impressive tee shots on the course for me.  The fairway is shared with the 14th and is HUGE.  That is a good thing b/c the hole is a brute, even though it plays downwind.  After the drive, everything else is uphill a good amount.  I hit a pretty good drive and left a 5-wood short of the green.  There is a nice ridge coming in from the right about 75-100 yds short of the green.  Definitely one of the tougher holes on the course IMO.



The massive shared fairway



Interesting bunker shaping in the photo below (taken from Greg Tallman's photo tour dated Oct. 2009).  It would be interesting to hear Paul discuss why it went from that to the shape above?

THe bunker changes at 10 were a great decision late in the game from Paul/MArk/Davis... the original bunkering concept was very out of character for the area... I think a massive waste area would have been even more compelling but I would guess the playable area was desired for the tee shot on 14 which on a normal day can be very tough given the normal wind.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

George,
These are pretty compelling photos.

Thank you,
Ben

[Greg Tallman]

George,
These are pretty compelling photos.

Thank you,
Ben

Ben,

Bring your camera and pedometer... I am taking Seņor Cowley to task on his 300 yard assertion. 

[George Freeman]

George,
These are pretty compelling photos.

Thank you,
Ben

Thanks Ben.  And thanks for the constant goodies coming out of Nova Scotia!

Also, I took these pictures under the worst picture conditions imaginable: high noon with a bright sun beating down on me.

[George Freeman]

#12
The twelfth is another on the the short list of holes that I doubt many people will list in the top five or six on the course but which I think is really good.  I must say, when looking at the aerial and at pics of the course, I was worried that the "lagoon" holes would be a major let down and really not fit the feel of the course.  To my pleasant surprise, the lagoon was very well done and looked very real (and was actually really pretty).

The hole is a gem.  If you manage to stripe a drive and clear the large ridge running through the landing area, you can have a legit chance of getting home in two.  If you don't accomplish that, or you don't have the distance to reach in two, a cleverly placed bunker coming in from the left really complicates the layup.  It pinches the layup landing area so you either lay up short or risk trying to carry it for a short third.  Nice large bailout right of the green, the surface of which is nicely contoured.




You can barely make out the large undulations in the fairway here


The problem causing bunker
 

[George Freeman]

#13
The thirteenth, a shorter par 4, plays around the other side of the lagoon.  A large ridge comes in from the right side of the fairway and runs down towards the water.  If you don't clear the ridge, the second will be blind into a green which is benched into the hill side.  If you clear the ridge, you have probably less than 120 yards.  Although I really like the drive with the ridge coming into play, I felt the green complex clashed with the rest of the greens on the course.  I read somewhere that the green was originally going to be down by the water and I wonder how/if the hole would have been better and/or different. 



This is the drive.  You can barely make out the green benched into the hill in the distance.

[George Freeman]

#14
Wow, what a hole.  The fourteenth is massive, beautiful, challenging, deceptive, strategic, etc.  After climbing the hill from the thirteenth green you stand atop a dune looking down over the large shared fairway (most likely with a 20 mph wind dead in your face).  The hole plays 600 yards dead into the teeth of the wind.  I can't even imagine what the effective distance of this hole would be in a 30 mph wind.  I hit a solid drive, pure 5-iron, pure 5-iron (over the dune on the left to a tucked/blind pin to 10 ft; by far my best shot of the day).

There is a ridge running from the beginning left of the fairway up across the landing zone.  If you don't clear this with the drive, which is a challenge into the wind, your second will be completely blind.  A good third of the green is hidden behind a large dune that comes in from the left of the green.  The further right you go with your layup, the more of the green you will see.  If you come up short, which is highly probably, you ball will run back down into the fairway.  This hole, more than any other, really felt like a links hole from GB&I as you play through the massive dunes.  Epic would be a good name for this hole.






The view for my second.




From the left side of the layup, this pin location completely blind.




Another nice view from the green.

[paul cowley]

Thanks as always Peter!

George....the discrepancies between the two bunker photos of #10 is a long story. This is the short version.

The construction period for the course extended over three years for two main reasons.  One was that we had chosen a contractor who for many reasons was not able to provide sufficient manpower and...more importantly...sufficient equipment to execute the work in a timely manner.

The other was an 8 month period of no construction. Lehman Bros was the original lender, and it took that long to find alternate funding after their collapse.

The entire course was eventually shaped by a single talented individual...Kevin Lippert...who only had a cab-less D5 or D6 dozer for both the rough and final shaping. I eventually ended up making over 60 trips from planning to course opening, and much of this was due to the slow pace of construction. We did have the use of 2 or 3 off road trucks for about a month...which was fortunate as we were able to build the two parallel dune ridges that formed the body of holes 1 and 8 in an area that was totally flat.

We shaped and grassed holes 10, 12 and 13 early as they were to provide the sprigs and sod to complete the rest of the course. We also grassed the bunker areas so we could harvest the sod and finish the bunker detailing with an excavator [which we never got]. The owner had employed a project manager who had previously worked with the Fazio group on a few projects and during one of my 3 to 4 week absences he started the detailing, obviously in a manner consistent with his prior experience. This OK with me at the time because we needed the sod elsewhere and I was going to blow them up anyway in a manner more consistent with the rest of the course....using the promised excavator.The end of my absense concluded with the Lehman collapse and all construction except for maintenance was halted. During this period of delay Larry Lambrecht came to photograph much of the finished course and the old photo of 10 was a result. Also the picture of #9 with no false front was taken then too. It was always planned but during this period of low maintenance it was not maintained as such.

When we were finally able to resume construction we were under a tight schedule as the owner understandably wanted to open after such a long delay. I was able to finish what I could using some of the maintenance staff and a backhoe.

[paul cowley]

George,
These are pretty compelling photos.

Thank you,
Ben

Ben,

Bring your camera and pedometer... I am taking Seņor Cowley to task on his 300 yard assertion. 

My friend...leave the pedometer home. Google Earth has the walk from 9 to 10 as 420 yds.....while passing by a well stocked food and beverage show.

The walk from 13 to 14 is 210 yds....once again passing a well manned [womanned  ] food and beverage comfort station.

It seems I might be going down in Jan....maybe you would like to take a stroll with me?

[George Freeman]

Thanks for the info, Paul. 

Can you talk a little about the 13th green?  Where was it originally planned to go?  Why the change, ect?

[paul cowley]

George

#13 is where it was originally planned. We resisted putting it on the lagoon, instead opting for its transitional position up the slope of the dune. We felt water holes were not what the course design needed. The lagoon was a given as it is our irrigation pond, and I spent much time trying to make it naturally looking in the desert environment....as opposed to a Palm Springs creation. I stole aquatic plant species from the estuary at San Jose, and the birds, fish and wildlife flocked there on their own. It was designed to allow for 4 or 5' of shoreline fluctuation. I like it. I also like your photo tour.

[George Freeman]

George

#13 is where it was originally planned. We resisted putting it on the lagoon, instead opting for its transitional position up the slope of the dune. We felt water holes were not what the course design needed. The lagoon was a given as it is our irrigation pond, and I spent much time trying to make it naturally looking in the desert environment....as opposed to a Palm Springs creation. I stole aquatic plant species from the estuary at San Jose, and the birds, fish and wildlife flocked there on their own. It was designed to allow for 4 or 5' of shoreline fluctuation. I like it. I also like your photo tour.

Paul, as stated in my post about #12, I think the irrigation pond is very well done.  It greatly exceeded my expectations from a beauty and naturalness standpoint.

Were the undulations in the twelfth and thirteenth fairways natural or are they man-made?  I really enjoyed those as well.

[Greg Tallman]

George,
These are pretty compelling photos.

Thank you,
Ben

Ben,

Bring your camera and pedometer... I am taking Seņor Cowley to task on his 300 yard assertion. 

My friend...leave the pedometer home. Google Earth has the walk from 9 to 10 as 420 yds.....while passing by a well stocked food and beverage show.

The walk from 13 to 14 is 210 yds....once again passing a well manned [womanned  ] food and beverage comfort station.

It seems I might be going down in Jan....maybe you would like to take a stroll with me?

Paul, would love to take that stroll with you and while google earth may have those yardages I would be willing to wager that the route required on foot is much longer...

Hope to sneak out with an esteemed member of GCA in early January... any idea what dates you might be down?

[paul cowley]

George

The soil was there on both of the 12th and 13th holes but we did a fair amount of pushing to get the angularity as the existing contours were rather smooth. We found the best way to shape here was to push up features more than needed and then go away for 30 days and let the wind finish the shaping for us.

[paul cowley]

Let me know your dates and I might be able to coordinate....haven't booked yet.

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