[Tim Martin]

HAHA, the guys in the shop will tell him were to find me...I truly hope he doesn't mind me sharing with the board here his plan to make our course wonderful again. Which I know he will.

I've been away from the club for the last couple of years, so I never get to discuss this with anybody. As you could imagine there are only a few golfers at the club who a) are interested in this stuff b) care, and c) understand what is going on. It is nice to hear people on here give their support and their 2 cents on our situation.

I'm in no position to comment on the work performed and how it is accepted by the club. All I know is I played the course before him, and after his first season, and the progress has been great, and I'm glad we stole him from Concord CC.

I can only imagine that the new super will take the internet posting in the spirit it was intended which to me seems all about the golf course and making it better. He would be lucky to have more members with as much insight and interest as Travis.

[Bill Hyde]

100+ Dead shows, wore a Steal Your Face golf shirt in team photo as Varsity Golf Captain...we're everywhere!!! Heck, 25 years ago my threads on this site would have been along the lines of "Any suggestions for courses within 25 miles of Hampton Coliseum?"

[Travis Dewire]

100+....WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a career Bill! Our Supt said he had been to 50+ shows, not quite at your level!

I really like the steely on the golf shirt in the pic, was this high school ?!?!?! I would guess, yes.

HAHAHA - nice on the hampton coliseum line....Wonder who would have "got it"?


I am sadly much younger than the Grateful Dead generation, and again, sadly too young for the "true" Phish generation - I turned 24 - 6 months ago. I honestly never suspected I would find any heads on here, but boy am I glad!

[Bruce Katona]

The Jerry Garcia Band used to love to play the Livingston College (one of the Rutgers University campuses) Gym.  Small place, fits maybe 5,000.  I have no idea why, bu they would play that venue year after year. "Tangled Up in Blue"......Great Shows.

[Steve Okula]

Live and be well, now, let your life proceed by its own design.

How the hell does a golf course superintendent ever get time to see 50+ Dead shows? I would have loved to, but I was always frigging working weekends, holidays, whenever the Dead were in town. One time in Maryland. a friend of mine was heading security for a show and offered me a backstage pass. I declined, ever so stupidly, to get back to work! How I regret that decision now.

Dead thread hi-jack now complete.

[Kyle Harris]

The Disco Biscuits are the band Phish wishes they could be.

[Mike Salinetti]

I bet the supt that wrote that letter is in the pro shop the last few days saying" hey, what does the dude look like that posted my letter on the internet?"  He might not write another letter

Mike, I hear ya on this one. If any letters I write to my membership ended up on this website, or any website for that matter, I would not be a happy camper.

[Travis Dewire]

The Disco Biscuits are the band Phish wishes they could be.

Biscuits are great, but did you ever hear of phish 95-98?


Mike, why would you be so upset?

I'm not putting anything up saying, hey tell me if this is right, tell me if this guy is doing the right thing. I cut, and pasted, a couple paragraphs, from a very long E-mail, commented saying the work he has done has been great, asked if anyone else had experience with a similar poor soil profile, and then continued to hammer my Supt with love and praise about the work he has done for the course. There has been no harm done, and nothing done with any mal content. I would hate for something so positive, and miniscule, to affect you so much

[Anthony_Nysse]

I bet the supt that wrote that letter is in the pro shop the last few days saying" hey, what does the dude look like that posted my letter on the internet?"  He might not write another letter

Mike, I hear ya on this one. If any letters I write to my membership ended up on this website, or any website for that matter, I would not be a happy camper.

As I've learned the hard way before, if you're willing to put something in print, you have the understanding that it could be seen by anyone and everyone. If the letter is being shared with the membership, you have to think that any member may show a member at another club, a friend, etc...it can go anywhere. Thankfully, this letter and comments are in the positive sense.

[Randy Thompson]

Travis,
IMO there is nothing wrong with posting the newsletter and I doubt the superintendent would be bothered, at least I wouldn`t be. However, if I was the Ex suoerintendent, I may take offense to the thread in general because we don`t have his side of the story. Normally, when one investigates further, you find there were faults on both sides and mistakes made by both the club and the superintendent. Granted there are many situations where a change should occur but mostly becasue the relationship has deteriated for what ever reasons and the glass is broken and it very difficult or impossible to fix and expect results similar to a new glass. The whole salt iissue is strange. Trying to flush those greens on a native soil base will be challenging, once a year deep aeriation will help but I would go with at least two. Your only chance is moving the salts down deeper out of the root zone area. On a sand base green it works more effectively because after moving the salts throght the 12 inches of sand you get into the gravel base and out the drain pipes. I am sure they are trying to understand where the salts are coming from and address that problem first and at the same time start trying to eliminate what has accumulated through the years. I would try everythig in the book to get better long term results but without ruling out the possibility that a re-build and conversion to a sand base green may be the end results. Keeping original contours or should we say current contors is not that big of a deal and can be done very easily, therefore fear of losing these current contours should not enter into the formula and prohibit what may be the only viable option but time will tell.

[Tim Nugent]

This thread does a good job at highlighting several issues.
1) incomplete information can lead to erronious assumptions
2) nothing happens overnight.  What takes years to develop, takes years to correct.
3) clubhouse politics.  This was not mentioned but a major reason clubs opt for the cultural route vs a rebuild is time and money.  Older members see their golfing future as rather limited.  Although they are usually the ones responsible for current ills, they a) do noit want to close the course for the time needed for a rebuild, b) don't want to pay for something they may only use for a couple more years.
4) ignorance is Bliss. With no prior history, sometimes the best approach is to change supers.  The new guy will get more freedom to enact more radical corrections and many times gets money that the old guy could only dream of.  What's the old saying "there's never enough money to do it right the 1st time but there always seems to be enough for the 2nd time"?
5) reading all the assumption, variables and hypothesis as to what was the casue and the solution, it should be evident that the best results are come from selectingthe right professional, giving him the resources he requests and STAAYING THE HELL OUT OF HIS WAY and shooting anyone who begins second-guessing him.  Give him the time he asks for and then judge the results.  Ideally, he can keep a practice green as a "Before" just in case the membership develops a case of "Short-term memory-itise".

[James Bennett]

the best results are come from selectingthe right professional, giving him the resources he requests and STAAYING THE HELL OUT OF HIS WAY and shooting anyone who begins second-guessing him.  Give him the time he asks for and then judge the results. 

Idealy, he can keep a practice green as a "Before" just in case the membership develops a case of "Short-term memory-itise".

Tim

the 'before' practise green is a pretty cool idea.

James B

[Randy Thompson]

Tim,
Everything well said, but I would keep the membership informed not to expect miracles, expect that the right programs and ample resources will hep increase the overall product, maybe from a six to an eight but if they want more than eight they may need to consider rebuilding. A good super is so important in the equation but they are factors within that equation and not every situation will alllow even the best to produce ten points day in and day out.

[Steve Okula]

2) nothing happens overnight. 

Amend that: Nothing good happens overnight. Grass can be kiled in a heartbeat.

[Tim Nugent]

Randy, agreed, there are many factors that must be present inorder to get close to a 10 and even then, Mother Nature can conspire to force it down to a 9 or 8 for a period (lest it becomes a 0).  Timely communication is key - not just "after the fact - this is why" notices.  Every winter, (in the north) super's put together a plan and a budget.  This should be communicated to the entire membership, not the Green Committee or Board.  If the Board is reining in spending, the pro's and con's should be outlined, so if things aren't as up-to-snuff as usual, they know why - without the Smart Table (my term picked up from a club I worked on for that group of guys that sit in the clubhouse everyday formulating their group opinion on every facet of the club's operations) speculating on possible causes - the 1st of which is usually - "the super isn't doing a good enough job because XYZ down the street is looking much better".

Steve, I should have narrowed that statement to "pertaining to soil structure- including thatch management".  I just assumed it as that was the crux of the conversation and everyone here knows grass can die "overnight".

[Don_Mahaffey]

Not really related to the letter but more to the responses...more of my .02

Thatch is a result of grass growing, and usually growing well.
Bad soils, bad water, bad this or that also prevents grass from growing well usually also prevents thatch from accumulating.
If you accumulated a lot of thatch, then at one time that soil was growing grass just fine. What changed?
Yes, thatch can get away from you, but this idea that to reign it back in is some sort of maddening decade long process is BS.
This industry goes based on work, rebuilding is work...thus most in the industry, labs, construction firms, suppliers, architects all benefit when something is rebuilt.
Yes, sometimes things need to be rebuilt, but way to often that is the first option and not enough questions are answered prior to the rebuilding suggestion.

[Jake Straub]

Couple of passing thoughts on this topic..

1st...No matter if you build from the bottom up (rebuild) or from the top down (amending) you better add some drainage.  You can drill and fill and deep aerify all you want, but all that you will achieve is making the bath tub deeper...
2nd...

If you accumulated a lot of thatch, then at one time that soil was growing grass just fine. What changed?

  Take the time to look through the records and find out what happened environmentally (weather wise, tree wise, sunlight wise) and agronomically (topdressing, aerification, fertilization, irrigation)...
3rd and maybe this should be 1st...check the water and not just once a year.  Check it early spring, late spring/early summer, and then in the dead of summer.  I think most people would be surprised at what they would find, think about the northeast this year with high temperatures and very little rainfall.

Just some thoughts...

[Don_Mahaffey]

Jake,
That's all exactly my point, find out what changed and sometimes it can be addressed without a rebuild.

I do not agree that soil is a bathtub. In the case of a pushed up green, its only a bath tub if a fine material has been cored out and a course material filled in. Native soils can and do drain...whether they drain fast enough based on how things are managed is another question.

[Mike_Young]

Don,
Are there many other plants that require such a structured medium to grow as does putting green grass?  And if so could we afford to eat the vegetables etc grow in these growing mediums.....

[Michael Hayes]

Just got sent this link. 

I think all of us supers have been the subject of this short movie!!!

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7905777/

Michael Hayes

[Steve Curry]

What turf needs:
1) Drainage
2) Morning sun light
3) Drainage
4) care
5) Drainage

What Superintendents need:

1) support
2) drainage
3) people to read, beleive and try to understand what is written
4) support
5) expectations that align with all conditions, economic, locale, weather and so on.

Travis,

Here in the Northeast we had, as reported, Mid-Atlantic weather this season.  In the Mid-Atlantic, albeit rumored, clubs were losing temps established after greens were lost, courses closed.  We can cover all agronomic programs and such but the bottom line, this year was with no hesitation the weather and the all of the above needs stand as the best means to move forward.

Cheers,
Steve

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()