Aerial of the Day #28

« **on:** February 21, 2002, 05:39:04 AM »

O.K., now for the good one. This picture used to be huge, then I shrunk it so it would be more manageable to look at (thus why you can't read the copyrights). That's why the edge is so jagged, to save space on the original.

This is a fun one to look at (attack of the amoeba bunkers!) and you might want to refer to it in about 4 months.

« **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2002, 06:02:33 AM »

Scott,
It is quite obvious that there was a bunker re-construction project done here

. I think I saw Norman (Greg not Bates) checking this course out during the Fall of 2000. While he was recovering from one of his surgeries, he happened to be in the area. I saw a cart drive by while I was on the Third hole- par three. Greg's tour director stopped at the Fourth Tee to survey the "Signature" hole--middle right side of picture. The Fifth hole is pretty special too. I expect many to get this one early... My lips are sealed!

« **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2002, 06:07:27 AM »

good stuff.

i think i see the 7:10 foursome just waking up in their chevy.

« **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2002, 06:09:49 AM »

I also played here in fall of 2000 (Sept 23). Didn't see any Sharks.

« **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2002, 06:16:18 AM »

too easy .... but a great aerial !

« **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2002, 06:19:41 AM »

very nice.
those of us who have played it recognized the diagonal carries quite quickly? Who knew the bunkers looked that clean from above? I wish I was older when I played it pre-renovation.
Great quality on stitching all those images.
Your effort is appreciated, and should be saved for special occasions.
thanks
mike

« **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2002, 06:23:42 AM »

Fugghedaboudit...

The first time I looked at the picture I saw the maintenance complex and thought it was a clubhouse, that threw me for a moment...

« **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2002, 06:40:07 AM »

My god - I can't believe I actually guessed one... I guess this was pretty easy.
What I find interesting about this aerial is the amount of trees that seem to have been cleared since I played the course back in 1995. #5 and others seem to be much more open and provide many more angles to the green and landing areas.

« **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2002, 06:48:40 AM »

very nice.
those of us who have played it recognized the diagonal carries quite quickly? Who knew the bunkers looked that clean from above? I wish I was older when I played it pre-renovation.
Great quality on stitching all those images.
Your effort is appreciated, and should be saved for special occasions.
thanks
mike

« **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2002, 07:16:21 AM »

Great aerial

Not a cartpath in site!

« **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2002, 07:36:51 AM »

Maybe this is just a deceptive angle, but...

Those greens look awfully flat!

« **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:04:17 AM »

I had no idea to the extent of bunkering. Isn't this aerial an indictment on the obsession with artsy-fartsy bunkering more about shapes and eye appeal than hazards to offer strategy and promote options? I can't see any options except hit it right here or die. Narrow fairways, hemmed in by multitudes of bunkers or woods. How many bunkers have been added or vastly expanded since the course was first laid out? And, to what extent has the woods grown thicker since 1935-6, despite people above saying it was thinned out since they played? Take a look at p154 in TreeWolf Productions, ROTL book for some answers.

« **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:17:26 AM »

This picture really shows Tillie's genius. The angles on the fairways and positioning of the greens and cross bunkers are where Tillie shined. This course is going to require a player who work the ball in various directions.

Some classic Tillile features:
Cross bunker on 4
Diagonal, redan-ish greens on 3, 8 and 17 (3 and 17requiring a draw, while 8 requires a fade)
Deceptive bunker 30 yards short of the green on 13
Huge bunkers

And of course what you can't see are the elevation changes. I hope the current mowing pattern remains on 6. An 18, I heard an idea floated a couple years ago about moving the tee next to the 17th tee, looking at the aerial makes me think that had some merit, although it would slow down play. The bunkering looks a bit contrived, I would have liked to see the clusters repositioned. Maybe one cluster moved back and diagonal across part of the fairway, consistent with Tillie's diagonal strategy.

I'll say it again, hole location! They are going to stick the flag in some fun spots.

« **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:58:10 AM »

Jamie's description is right on the mark.

Dick- This course always had HUGE deep bunkers. It was/is the hallmark of the place. Many bunkers such as the complex between 10 and 11 were reclaimed after being abandoned. Some others like the left fairway bunker on #4 were pushed a bit further out to keep them in play for todays equipment. Unfortunately, many of the shapes and the look of the bunkers are changed. The only one that I can think of that actually plays any different/easier is the front bunker on the great par 3 17th where the lip was lowered to make a more visable shot. Perviously, if you found yourself in that bunker you only saw sand. It was like being stuck in the Sahara desert.

If you study the 1935 aerial in ROTL there are quite a few differences. These differences were all there before this recent "restoration". In that aerial, you will see a beautiful fairway bunker on the right of #1 that is now and was at least from 1969 onward trees. THis is likely to protect players on the adjacent Green course #1. Also, the great fairway hazard on #5 is tiny or absent on that aerial as are the interesting bunkers on #6 that all of us who played the course for many years love. . I don't really know if the course was finished when that aerial was taken. I'd like to compare an aerial from 1969-1995 if anyone has one.

« **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2002, 09:05:27 AM »

VERY cool pic - thanks again Scott!

Besides the incredible bunkers, I had no idea this course was so perfectly out and back... definitely unique for American golf. Farthest point from clubhouse is 9 tee or 10 green... very cool. No cartpaths - VERY cool. God damn I need to play this course... some day....

TH

« **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2002, 09:32:46 AM »

One thing I noticed that would be interesting to ask the super, is the beginning of the fairway on #15. All of the fiarways have the split mowing pattern, but it seems as if there's a 50% larger fairway (extra strip of "light" pattern) in the very beginning of the fairway on 15, then it just ends abruptly. It doesn't really come into play much.

It also seems as if I've gained an "assistant", and it certainly adds to the aerials. Mr. Childs has been helping by adding the hole numbers and reposting them. I don't know if he'll only do it to the courses he knows, but that's fine. I've said in the past that I could do it, but I spend far too much time doing the aerials as it is (where's a sleepy smiley when you need one?). Only on the internet can you have an assistant you've never met! Thanks, Geoff.

« **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2002, 10:05:55 AM »

In the clue category for those who don't know, think dark and muni.

« **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2002, 10:30:25 AM »

I too am thankful to Geoffrey for eventually inserting the hole #s. I like to try to work out the routings myself, then see if I got them right after a while passes. I haven't been to BSPB or any other color, so when you have a maintenance facility like that, it causes some misdirection and confusion, temporarily

That 15th mowing pattern might be a 'reminant of that links' seen on page 154 as a drainage creek or actual creek that is not apparent on this new aerial, unless you look VERY carefully at how it might have been regraded/contoured in the right rough of 15 to intercept the flow of the old drainage course

« **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2002, 10:52:40 AM »

The fairway on #15 is not all that wide. What is seen on the right side of the fairway is not really part of the golf course that is in play but a big field.

I think that #15 will be widely talked about. It is as difficult a 4 par as I've ever seen. THis is more like a wild undulating Tillinghast green too. As Jamie said earlier, the elevation changes are amazing on this property and the approach to 15 is one of the best uphill shots in golf. Miss right or long and you're dead. Miss left and you have a nearly impossible pitch to a green running away from you.

I'll put in hole #'s for courses I've played after some discussion has already taken place. Ground level shots if I have them too and people request specific holes. I think these are valuable too and I'd be happy to post photos from others if they send them to me. However, this is Scott's show and he's done a great job.

« **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2002, 12:09:39 PM »

I just tuned in between meetings and it's after 1:00. Quick - what course is it??

NEVER MIND!! Just saw GeoffreyC's routing and read some clues - I got it.

« **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2002, 12:19:03 PM »

"O.K., 007, who are you?"

"The name's Black. Bethpage (Black). Try to score on me and I'll leave you shaken, not stirred. No wimpy carts here. Walking only. Here's my card:

"

"But you're just a muni."

"Sure, I'm a muni. I'm the best golf bargain in America. Even designed by the great A.W. Tillinghast, creator of Winged Foot, Quaker Ridge, Baltusrol, and SFGC. But just TRY getting a tee time. I'm even hosting the U.S. Open this year. First time ever for a truly public course. If you want a preview before June, try this: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/bethpage1.html

and for a complete tour, try this: http://www.nassauplayers.org/npcblk01.htm
."

"I oughta shoot you right here, right now."

"No one ever thinks to do that. That's much too obvious."

"You'll never get away with this, 007."

"I will and I have."

« **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2002, 01:00:50 PM »

what i've always thought was pretty interesting is that the resemblence the 4th hole has to Tillie's "Double Dog Leg" only without trees (I know that seems like a paradox), but look at this sketch:

the tee orientation is a little different, I'll admit.

« **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2002, 01:07:08 PM »

I forgot this, a tour of the Black from the architect's viewpoint, from the green back to the tee: http://www.nassauplayers.org/npcblk18r.htm

« **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2002, 08:45:31 AM »

Here's a view from the right bunker field on the 18th

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