News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« on: December 07, 2010, 10:08:32 PM »
Apologies if this has been covered/touched upon in a recent thread...

Anyway, I find myself back at home base for a couple of days having had the opportunity to read "Dream Golf" between airport pat downs and full body scans on some recent business trips... One thing that stood out for me in the book was the sub-text of Mike Keiser as an Ayn Rand-style visionary whose ideas are tempered/moderated/improved by government officials and other domain experts who bring a regulatory, social, environmental or design viewpoint into whatever enterprise he is attempting to get off the floor. As a result a depressed area of Oregon now has a thriving business that supports hundreds of people, without causing the damage of the business it replaced i.e. papermill logging

At the same time, I read a profile of Eli Broad in last week's New Yorker, Broad is a 76 year old housing/insurance mogul who is now attempting to dominate the LA Art world using his millions. In some ways, he harkens back to the Gilded Age capitalists like Carnegie, Rockefeller etc... who ran roughshod over the competition, unions, federal regulations and the environment on their way to building their fortunes, then decided exactly how and when they would give that back to society. This is the model preferred by people like Dick Cheney (Or, if you prefer Adam Smith) where people get to make what they want free of any government oversight or consideration of the long-term impact on our planet, with the implicit notion that the market will sort it all out.

Given where the world is these days, it seems that the philosophy that built Bandon Dunes into the remarkable place it has become is something that should be encouraged in all areas of business or public enterprise. We can't do well unless we're also doing good at the same time.

Is there something within the commercial DNA of Bandon Dunes that can be spread to things other than golf courses in beautiful, yet remote settings?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 10:10:04 PM by Anthony Butler »
Next!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 10:17:28 PM »
Anthony,

If everyone took their business and filled in the the blank with what they do....eg. "insurance as it was meant to be", "architecture as it was meant to be", "politics as it was meant to be", "pain as it was meant to be",etc, etc, etc....the world would be a better place.

Thanks for the thread. :)
It's all about the golf!

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 10:23:00 PM »

Anyway, I find myself back at home base for a couple of days having had the opportunity to read "Dream Golf" between airport pat downs and full body scans on some recent business trips... One thing that stood out for me in the book was the sub-text of Mike Keiser as an Ayn Rand-style visionary whose ideas are tempered/moderated/improved by government officials and other domain experts who bring a regulatory, social, environmental or design viewpoint into whatever enterprise he is attempting to get off the floor. As a result a depressed area of Oregon now has a thriving business that supports hundreds of people, without causing the damage of the business it replaced i.e. papermill logging



Anthony,

Clearly the best course of action would be for me to read "Dream Golf" to understand what exactly the quoted paragraph means but I would rather discuss it sooner than that is likely to happen...is that fair?

How does Keiser say government officials or domain experts improved one of his projects? Did he ask for their contribution? or was it not an option?

What happens to Bandon in the event people can no longer travel there?

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 10:52:01 PM »
Anthony,

Also, Howard McKee was the heart on the ground in making Bandon Dunes happen.

The serendipidous way Mr. Keiser and he met in Chicago, and became friends/partners is truly timeless.

Thanks

FWIW "Dream Golf"(2nd edition 2010) is a must read for all GCAers.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 10:13:39 AM by William Grieve »
It's all about the golf!

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2010, 01:28:02 AM »
Thanks Anthony for styling the post as you have. There are very few businessmen who have the vision, risk assuming stomach, drive and decipline to stay the course with this type business plan. This allows for long term success but requires missing out on some short term profits. I have rarely seen someone walk past easy low hanging fruit to stay the course like Mike Kaiser has. cheers to him.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 12:04:30 AM by Tiger_Bernhardt »

Anthony Gray

Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2010, 02:46:50 AM »



  I think what Bandon has become is far greater than the initial vision.I do not think dollar signs were what were in the developers eyes at the time,although of course they wanted to see a profit.That said Bandon has become a monster and the prices have increased and limited many the oppertunity to visit.

   Anthony


Carl Rogers

Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 08:59:46 AM »
I will glean a better sense of this thread after I get back from Bandon next February.

Perhaps Mr. Keiser's real strength was to go out and hire very very capable people and ALLOW them to do their best work without interference.  He could have turned the Bandon Resort into the Oregon version of Disney Land or Disney World, but choose not to.

Jeff Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2010, 09:49:11 AM »
You set up a nice contrast between business models, but it seems a bit overly simplistic to me. Is Bandon Dunes Mr. Keiser's only business? Were his other businesses the result of this public / private partnership model that you seem to endorse? Is it possible that a project like Bandon Dunes is the exception to doing business today and the Mr. Keiser is lucky that he was allowed to do business on the coast of Oregon?

As for your editorial on the industrial age, it is difficult to make the case that these were bad people doing bad things who then became good people and decided to give back on their own terms. Who should decide how these people give back?

So we are left with the idea that Mr. Keiser's form of capitalism (pushed in that direction by Government) is a better way to do business. Well, maybe. Doing well by doing good is not a new idea. In fact, it is a stretch to find a successful business model based on doing bad. Maybe Bandon Dunes is successful because it meets or exceeds customer expectations. I don't think we can attribute that to unique DNA.






Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2010, 09:57:21 AM »
One hallmark of a successful entrepreneur is that he can navigate barriers to entry which subsequently serve to close the door behind him to those with lesser passion, ambition and know-how.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2010, 10:03:55 AM »
I'm fairly familiar with this splendid tale and my take is that equal parts of vision, business savvy and serendipity led to the golf mecca that is Bandon Dunes.  When Mike first started his search to build a links resort, he never thought of going to Oregon, but his no-stones-unturned philosophy led him to the Oregon coast.  When he was told by his closest golf/business adviser that he was "out of his fucking mind" if he thought people would go to Bandon to golf, he accepted the information cheerfully and went about his business.  I'm not sure when Mike's thinking went from "rich man's folly" to "visionary businessman's great idea", but he took his sweet time.  He took his time acquiring land.  He took his time in deciding how to rout the first golf course, perhaps thinking it might be the only course ever built there.  He took his time understanding the environment and the regulatory landscape, if you will.  Some of it was luck, in the form of a timely bankruptcy of a somewhat pernicious landowner or in the form of a gorse fire or two, but almost all of it was the perfect alchemy of passion and business know-how.  It's an amazing thing when you think about it, but Mike Keiser went from a golf nobody to one of the most important people in American golf in a ten-year or so period of time.

As for whether his business plan could metastasize elsewhere, I have no doubt that there are hundreds of like-minded entrepreneurs that are out there with the same sort of philosophy.  Here in Chicago, we have a couple young men, one only thirty who started Groupon about three years ago.  They just turned down something like $4 billion from Google.  Their work environment is decidedly out of the mainstream, but they make it work.

But in the golf world, Mike Keiser seems to have hit just about every proper chord at Bandon Dunes.  The overall vibe of the place, which must be largely attributable to two factors (no carts and no private memberships) has simply infected the place with an "everybody belongs" feeling.  That, of course, starts at the top.  Mike Keiser pays greens fees at Bandon just like everybody else.  When Arnold Palmer played, he had to pull out the credit card.  I'm told he was puzzled, but delighted all at the same time.  I walked onto the first tee at Pacific Dunes with Mike one morning and he walked up to the starter with an outstretched hand and said, "Hi, I'm Mike".  "I know, Mr. Keiser," was the man's reply.  In a word, Mike Keiser is a democrat, small d, of course, because in real life he is ardently Republican.

Never said he was perfect!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 10:06:43 AM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2010, 10:26:20 AM »

Anthony,

Clearly the best course of action would be for me to read "Dream Golf" to understand what exactly the quoted paragraph means but I would rather discuss it sooner than that is likely to happen...is that fair?

How does Keiser say government officials or domain experts improved one of his projects? Did he ask for their contribution? or was it not an option?

What happens to Bandon in the event people can no longer travel there?


Jim-I'll save you some of the trouble of reading the book.... you won't find an explicit statement where Keiser admits alternate viewpoints on the final shape of the Bandon Dunes Resort resulted in something that was way more successful than even he envisaged. Something that ignored all the 'low-hanging fruit' from the get go. (Although given their location, I'm not sure how much fruit was readily available–low hanging or otherwise.) The fact  he has become involved on different levels with successive versions of Bandon Dunes i.e. Barnbougle and Cabot Links that have some of the same challenges as Bandon (in the case of Cabot their is an implicit public/private partnership) provides perhaps the best indication of his thoughts on the final shape of his project.

If I reconsider Keiser's role in the project, he in some ways acted much like Steve Jobs running Apple. He had a simple vision which was 'build a golf course which reflects the original values and appeal of golf'. In many ways, Bandon Dunes is a text book case of remaining true to your brand values, where every decision made is guided by this simple statement. Not many people have the discipline or opportunity to remain true this kind of vision. The money and the people you have to answer to as result of having the money usually get in the way. In a bizarro way, the only way you can command a premium price for your products or services is by refusing to allow a commercial imperitive to be part of your company's brand vision.

Jobs was lucky Apple was at such a low ebb when he came back that everyone connected to the company (including the company I worked for at the time)  admitted he was Apple's last chance. The fact Jobs created Pixar (he bought it from George Lucas when it was a special FX company) during his years away from Apple with the simple idea of "the best digital storytellingr" provided him with all the latitude he needed.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 10:33:32 AM by Anthony Butler »
Next!

Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2010, 11:03:33 AM »
Terry

And for the Ann Rand analogy for Mr Keiser?  Remotely close to true given your democrat AND Republican description?

I would have loved to see the guy behind that desk that had to ask Palmer for the $200 green fee.  That took some balls.

Also, Groupon turned down $6 Billion?  Astonishing move....can't wait to see how history writes that decision in the books. 

Jim Nugent

Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2010, 11:04:18 AM »

Anyway, I find myself back at home base for a couple of days having had the opportunity to read "Dream Golf" between airport pat downs and full body scans on some recent business trips... One thing that stood out for me in the book was the sub-text of Mike Keiser as an Ayn Rand-style visionary whose ideas are tempered/moderated/improved by government officials and other domain experts who bring a regulatory, social, environmental or design viewpoint into whatever enterprise he is attempting to get off the floor.

Like Sully, I'm interested to know how government officials made Bandon better.  What exactly are "domain experts?"

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2010, 11:26:25 AM »
The initial post made me think of the Keith Richards autobiography, which I am reading now.  He describes being focused on making quality music, and did not focus on commercial success which came suddenly and in a matter of weeks once they recorded a record.
His version is contradicted by his diary entries from the time period, which focus largely on money.

In the golf realm a number of quality projects have struggled mightily due to business factors.  Bandon, however, gets all of the details right - the way they have created buzz for each course through soft openings, the type of accomodations, the practice facilities, the type and level of service and even the simplicity of the food.  I think if your attitude is about quality without regard to marketing factors, you have to provide quality on all aspects of the experience and then have some luck as well.   

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2010, 11:33:14 AM »
Terry

And for the Ann Rand analogy for Mr Keiser?  Remotely close to true given your democrat AND Republican description?

 

Ayn Rand?  I dunno, Lavin shrugged...
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Dave McCollum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2010, 11:41:47 AM »
I love Bandon like every other golfer on this site and I’ve always heard it described as wildly successful.  I suppose it is wildly successful for the simple reason it exists as the wonderful place it is.  Keiser’s expanding golf empire would suggest that he’s doing well.  Personally, I think Keiser is an amazing guy and every serious golfer should be very thankful for what he has done for golf.  But since his golf interests are all privately held, does anyone really know how well?  When I was there last spring, I seem to recall somebody at the resort saying that business was off 20-30%.  I know Keiser looks at things long term, but, just like everyone else these days, that has to hurt.  Just wondering.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2010, 11:52:08 AM »
Anyone who has started or runs a successful business already understands what you refer to "enlightened capitalism".

Few who do not do so understand it.

Unfortunately there are way more people - waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more, in fact :)  - who are in the latter group.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2010, 12:06:25 PM »
I love Bandon like every other golfer on this site and I’ve always heard it described as wildly successful.  I suppose it is wildly successful for the simple reason it exists as the wonderful place it is.  Keiser’s expanding golf empire would suggest that he’s doing well.  Personally, I think Keiser is an amazing guy and every serious golfer should be very thankful for what he has done for golf.  But since his golf interests are all privately held, does anyone really know how well?  When I was there last spring, I seem to recall somebody at the resort saying that business was off 20-30%.  I know Keiser looks at things long term, but, just like everyone else these days, that has to hurt.  Just wondering.

Business was way up this summer with the advent of Old MacDonald, not to the pre-recession levels, but way up from the dark days of 2009.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2010, 12:18:18 PM »

... where people get to make what they want free of any government oversight or consideration of the long-term impact on our planet, with the implicit notion that the market will sort it all out.



Are you implying that there should be MORE government regulation?

Perhaps Mr. Keiser had a unique opportunity to build Bandon and capitalized on it. 

If the Bandon opportunity was located a few hundered miles south in California, it is highly doubtful that it would ever be completed.
"... and I liked the guy ..."

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2010, 12:24:17 PM »
The people of Coos Bay may love the cash but they do seem to hate the golfer.  Is there any evidence that the resort has improved the quality of life of the locals who were there before enlightenment?

Jeff Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2010, 12:30:00 PM »
Interesting question  Mr. Kavanaugh. My caddie suggested that the locals did not realize the employment opportunities that they expected. Where those expectations came from is another question.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2010, 12:42:51 PM »
I have not seen nor had the pleasure of being accompanied by an Inuit caddie.  I get the impression that the majority of caddies are transplanted planters.

David Botimer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2010, 12:52:07 PM »
I have not seen nor had the pleasure of being accompanied by an Inuit caddie.  I get the impression that the majority of caddies are transplanted planters.

The caddie program was originally staffed by mostly locals.  As it has grown (250 approximately this season), most of the growth has come from transplants.  There is now a good mixture of locals, transplants and Evans candidates / scholars.  Bandon has one of, if not THE largest Evans program in the country.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2010, 01:03:20 PM »
I have not seen nor had the pleasure of being accompanied by an Inuit caddie.  I get the impression that the majority of caddies are transplanted planters.

hahaha, that's funny.

Interestingly, the city of Bandon passed on the opportunity to annex the area/resort into the city, eg. potential costs but tax revenue, very early....

Best caddie program that I know of, but still not perfect.
It's all about the golf!

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2010, 01:23:36 PM »
One great pleasure after the golf is done is the low tax rate upon check out.  Is there still something like a 1% room tax? 

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back