[Patrick_Mucci]

Par 3 green would you choose ?

Par 4 green would you choose ?

Par 5 green would you choose ?

Does it make for a better/more intimidating hazard when it's visible or blind ? (assuming repeat play)

[Alex Miller]

Sorry, I know what PV is, but what's DA?

[Mark Chaplin]

Alex front right bunker on 10 known as the Devils Arsehole. It's a rather fearsome little pit.

[Mark McKeever]

Short left of 13 at Merion would be a good place to drop another one.  I feel like it should be done on a short hole, where you are more expected to hit the green.  Doing it on a hole like 17 would be just wrong.

Mark

[Terry Lavin]

Here in Chicago, I'd choose:

Par 3:  #11 at Flossmoor

Par 4:  #5 at Beverly

Par 5:  #9 at Medinah #1 Course

And I'd say that it's a more intimidating hazard if visible.

[Rory Connaughton]

Par 3 - No. 3 Enniscrone
Par 4 - No. 4 Lancaster
Par 5 - No 8, PH No. 2

[Jay Cox]

What distinguishes the DA from a penal version of the front greenside bunker on a Road hole?  Or, to put it slightly differently, could replacing a Road bunker with a DA replica make a better hole?

[Dan Herrmann]

Let's have some fun at Augusta National:
Par 3 - #12 at Augusta National, right past the creek.
Par 4 - #14 at Augusta National, over the back of the green
Par 5 - #2  - right side of the fairway in the landing zone.  Countour the area to funnel the ball into the new DA.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Short left of 13 at Merion would be a good place to drop another one.  I feel like it should be done on a short hole, where you are more expected to hit the green.  Doing it on a hole like 17 would be just wrong.

Mark

I agree with Mark, that a short hole is where the mistake should be most amplified.  So I'd nominate the NLE short par-3 8th at Olympic-Lake.

[Tim Bert]

Short left of 13 at Merion would be a good place to drop another one.  I feel like it should be done on a short hole, where you are more expected to hit the green.  Doing it on a hole like 17 would be just wrong.

Mark

I agree with Mark, that a short hole is where the mistake should be most amplified.  So I'd nominate the NLE short par-3 8th at Olympic-Lake.

I struggle with this argument.  Your point is taken, but also consider this - on a short shot, the player least likely to execute and find the trouble is the player that already has enough issues without the penal bunker.  On the other hand, on a long shot the less skilled player might be more inclined to lay-up and then safely navigate around the feature whereas the highly skilled player will need to take the challenge head-on if they want the reward.

I can see merits to both sides.  I just don't think it should be exclusively considered on a short approaches.

I say dig one of these suckers right into the face of the incline to the 15th green at Kingsley.  Just kidding if anyone that has the influence to get that done is reading this thread!

[Thomas McQuillan]

right in the middle of the green on the 17th at TPC sawgrass

[Brad LeClair]

certainly not any redan! now that would be an unreasonable shot!

[Ian Andrew]

Pat,

Which version?

The current one where it narrows at the bottom and three off the tee makes the most sense?

[Kyle Harris]

In front of some portion of the giant Short Green at Old Macdonald. That way the hole can be tucked right over it, or it can capture a dreadful shot intended for the hole 30+ yards away.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Let's have some fun at Augusta National:
Par 3 - #12 at Augusta National, right past the creek.
Par 4 - #14 at Augusta National, over the back of the green
Par 5 - #2  - right side of the fairway in the landing zone.  Countour the area to funnel the ball into the new DA.

Dan,

Good suggestion.

Now that I think about it, with ANGC's width, the DA would fit nicely into just about every hole excepting # 4, 12, 14, 15, 16 and 18..

GCGC would probably be a good fit as well

[mike_malone]

 #11 par 3 at Plainfield. I like where you can roll back into it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

#11 par 3 at Plainfield. I like where you can roll back into it.

Mike, at one time, the DA at PV had that aspect of play integration between the putting surface and the DA.

But, either right before or right after the Walker Cup, a deflecting lip/flange was added, probably for drainage, but, it meaningfully changed how the hole and recovery played.

I recall hitting balls out of the DA, onto the green, only to see them roll back into the bunker.
And, the next shot was harder because your footprints and crater/divot from the previous shot is where the ball tended to gravitate into.

[Bill_McBride]

Or maybe the ball rolls back and hits you while you're trying to figure out how to climb out!

[Scott Warren]

The DA may be deeper now (I felt claustrophobic in it when I ducked in for a look from the bottom and kinda wished I'd hit my ball in - I'll aim for it next time!) than before, but as far as it being a mind-f**k on the tee, I reckon the version Pat refernces above, which was how it was for the WWOG match, is greater because of the fact that you could even hit the green and end up in it.

If I were replicating it, it would want to be a short hole in a low-wind location. I take what Tim Bert says, but I think a hole like 11 at The Addington would be fitting, and it fits the general theme of that course, also.

[Karl Kocher]

Certainly the best type of hole to add a DAH is a reachable par 5, one that the green is visable while holding a long iron or wood on the second shot....I say front middle 16 Aronomink....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Here's an interesting article, which David Moriarty posted.
I've cited it below.
But, clearly, the intention was to place a DA like bunker directly in the golfer's path.

Please note the length of the hole (427) and the date of the article (1916) and consider the ball and equipment that was being played at the time.

Evidently, the golfers in 1916 enjoyed more difficult challenges than today's golfers.

Can you imagine the outcry for removal, on the grounds of unfairness, for a similar hazard/bunker fronting a green on a hole that long  today ?

This article would seem to be contrary to those who were calling for the introduction of a DA like feature, ONLY on short holes.

What's happened to us ?

Have we succumbed to the quest for "fairness"

[Scott Warren]

Patrick,

Would a 427-yard hole in 1916 not have been in the same ballpark as a modern day short three-shotter?

I think most whop said the hole would have to be short meant in relation to its par (ie. a short approach in regulation).

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