Armchair Architect contest (Mission Hills/Schmidt-Curley)

[David Harshbarger]

OK, Mirage didn't intrigue too many, so here's my original rendition of Picasso.  The idea here is that

1 a geometric application to the green
2 green elements appear to be traditional but are in fact facades
3 background elements (OB, Cart Path) are moved into the foreground as an arbitrary hazard and a playable element (the cart path bounce is part of the bailout for the lesser player's drive).

[Grant Saunders]

Hey David, I too entered the contest. I will post my entries if Ryan gives the all clear to do so.

I really like your mirage hole. What height differentiation would there be between the green surface and the lake? I feel if it were too great, the flagstick would appear shorter and possibly give away the illusion.

Its a little hard to fully understand your second hole as the drawing shows up quite small. Form what I can figure though, it seems like an interesting concept. It may take some serious work to ensure the surface run-off works across the green though. Suggesting the use of the cart path as a hazard may place you in the firing line with some people on here. I actually kind of like the idea.

Congratulations for having a go and also having the guts to offer it up for dissection on the forum.
 
Grant

[David Harshbarger]

Grant,

First, good luck.  I put a question into Mission Hills via Facebook and the said they are considering it, sharing the entries. 

On the Mirage hole getting the heights right is the key.  What those are I don't know.  My cop out is that the shapers and builders would figure that out in the field.  And if the heights or green shape and contours have to be adjusted, so be it. 

I'll see if I can get a larger version of Picasso through Picasa.  I saw the cart path not as a hazard but as a super charged kick slope.  Players can opt to play for the cart path bounce for extra yardage, but the reward comes with a blind shot into the green.  The better player flirts with OB but gets the unobstructed view of the green.  On the green are two fake bunkers at grade made of packed root soil and railroad ties.  Players can putt over them, but obviously landing your approach on one isn't going to bite.  Also, railroad ties Stimp off the charts!  My cop out on the drainage is the same....the shapers will figure it out.  The green should have a predominant slope back left front right, so as long as the contours can keep from pooling I guess it would work.

Managing water runoff, just one more thing that separates the men from the boys.

[Garland Bayley]

David,

I guess I don't understand the Chinese icon mirage or Picasso are reminiscent of. Or, did I misunderstand the 1st requirement of the contest that the hole be a Chinese icon such as the bird's nest.

[Garland Bayley]

... your artistic abilities are not too important...  Overheard and side views are fine.
...

Yeah right! Almost every contest I have see gave top prize to the best artistic rendition no matter whether the golf hole made sense or not. The very nature of this one makes artistic abilities even more important.

[David Harshbarger]

David,

I guess I don't understand the Chinese icon mirage or Picasso are reminiscent of. Or, did I misunderstand the 1st requirement of the contest that the hole be a Chinese icon such as the bird's nest.

Garland,

Brian Curley posted that the Icons need not be Chinese.  So, of the 8 designs I submitted, I did a mix:

To The Moon: Universal (rocket, lunar orbiter, moon), but the lunar orbiter is modeled on the Chinese orbiter, and the concept is meant to speak to the Chinese space program and the new space center being built on the island.
Dragon vs. Tiger: very Chinese
Dragon and Tiger; very Chinese
Mirage: universal
Heavy Seas/Tsunami: Universal but Tsunami's have a bigger role in Eastern culture, I think
Picasso: Western but I figured big enough name should play universally
Waterfall: Universal
Machu Picchu: I don't know if that will play widely in the Far East but I thought it was a singular enough site, maybe just a cut below the Pyramids, that it would work.

I'd love to hear GCA criticism of the playability of the designs. I'm hesitant to put them out cause I want to protect Mission Hill's interests, and my interest in Mission Hill's interest, but certainly after the contest or their OK I'll post the others.  I posted Mirage in a fit overzealousness, possibly.  The Picasso design is not the I submitted, but an earlier treatment.

And, if it comes down to artistic ability,  I think my work speaks for itself; I'm #%^*$&.

Dave

[David Harshbarger]

Mission Hills sent me a notification that this entry has been accepted and, from what I can tell of the link, will be one of the entries included in the Public Voting.

This is the final version of the entry I called Picasso. 



I tried very hard to provide options on this hole, while also pulling out as many stops as I could to make a fascinating, mind bending out-of-the-box hole.

1.) Using the native volcanic rock as a super-charged kick slope to allow short hitters to reach the axes of the green.
1a) Also using the volcanic rock as the carry hazard for better players.  Reward: better view/distance of target; risk, hit the wall and bounce backwards.
2.) Designing the green with 2 axes, that you really want to be hitting into to score well.
3.) Instructing the maintenance crew to cut the green so that the HOC makes the facets on the green play at the same speed, so what appears like a multi tier green plays sort of flat.

Comments are appreciated, and if the voting happens and you feel so moved, I'd love your support.

Dave

[Ryan Farrow]

Thanks everyone  for your continued interest..... We received the final batch of submissions today... and will start to go thorough them all in the coming weeks. It seems like there will be a public voting component involved. I will update you all when that time comes.

Personally, I have no problem with submitting entries on GCA for the tree house to critique, now that the submission deadline has passed. I must say, there are some really impressive visuals r..... others are just scribbling on a napkin.... but, like I said earlier, this contest is about great ideas and not just art. But it certainly doesn't hurt to submit a beautiful picture.....

and to be honest, the good looking  entires do catch your attention and are easier to visualize and understand... Some entries are so crude that it is difficult to make out what said person is really imaging..... Getting your ideas on paper, in a clear, understandable manner is not just important for a contest, but in building an actual golf hole.....

[David Harshbarger]

The finalists have been announced for this contest.  You can see the entries here:

http://apps.facebook.com/missionhillscontest/contests/68452/voteable_entries

They have many excellent and thought provoking entries. I encourage GCA'ers to take a look at the many interesting ideas, and their translations into golf holes.  Maybe this will become the "New McDonald".

Dave

[Mike Nuzzo]

The world one looks pretty cool with nice ideas, but stinks as a golf hole
The Great Wall is a nice idea if it were more like north berwick

Good luck

[David Harshbarger]

Mike,

My criticism of the world hole is that the long tee shot off the line of instinct gets the bad angle to the green.  What's the point?  Also, the other tees go to Africa, the more challenging fairway.   

To me, it doesn't have balance.

Dave

[Alex Miller]

I think the acrobats one is phenomenal. With just a couple tweaks it becomes a viable strategic golf hole as well. If the scale is changed so that the green is about 220 from the edge of the left landing area then there is a reward for challenging the water. Additionally if the tees are shifted right then the right landing area becomes more reachable and makes the choice to go for it or bail a tougher one. I'd vote for that one with those changes to it, and they're just minor scaling changes.

[Grant Saunders]

David

As promised, here is one of my entries that I submitted.







This drivable par 4 is inspired by the free flowing form of the Chinese water dragon.
Multiple options are presented via tee angles and the days hole location.
The bold player may elect to attempt to reach the green but he must be fully committed to the shot. The landing area is small yet beneficial contours will assist a well executed drive.
The more sensible play is to aim for position B from the tee as this location provides a good angle to most areas of the green.
Players may be fooled into aiming for point C and striving for a few extra metres off the tee but the shallowness of the green means that this leaves an awkward length pitch without much green to work with.
Shorter hitters may play to position D which is very receptive with the right hand form. From there they may elect to play short left of the green and pitch across the width with plenty of green to work with.
The green itself is fairly shallow yet very wide(approx 15m deep and 35m wide). The contours favour approaching from the left side to access middle and right hand holes. A left hand pin may suit an approach from the right of the fairway. The bunker within the green sits so putts can be maneuvered around it by using the contours. The slightly elevated nature of the right side of the green will repel any shot that lacks commitment. Playing to the easier left hand portion will yield more pars but few birdies. Clever shot making and imagination will be key to playing this hole under par.
General fairway contours are more encouraging from the shorter tees while demanding precise shot placement from the longer tees.
Ideally, the tees will be elevated above the fairway height. The increasing offset to the fairway line as one moves back will demand clear decision on which option to take. There exists a strong risk/reward question to be answered by the player.
The bunker following the left hand side of the fairway, while shallow, is best avoided at all costs. The 3 bunkers fronting the green may in fact be a better miss than  long so an uphill shot is left.


Feel free to disect.

[Alex Miller]

Grant,

Why isn't yours a finalist? I love it. I'd vote for it right now.

One thing, if the teeth bunkers are too small and difficult to make work, perhaps a fire shaped bunker would fit as well.

[David Harshbarger]

Grant,

There are many things I like about your dragon. Your green complex and rendering of the dragon's head is very good, esp. Putting around the green bunker.  For artfullness, i think you solved pulling the dragon's head together into  readable golf elements better than I did, at least.  The whiskers (?) to the back right of the green are very good.

The descriptions of the options to B and D may have been more relevant from the more forward tees.   At 315 yds, better players from the tips look like they can fly the bunker protecting A, leaving the low area right of A and the teeth as the main defenses.  I do like using a low collection area, both short of the green and at C as the penalty for bailing.  I used the same technique above in Picasso.

Obviously we don't know what the entry universe was comprised of, but, I wonder if the "dragon problem" was not in need of a solution.

[Grant Saunders]

Alex

Thanks for the kind words. Im certainly in awe of the the artistic abilities of some of the finalists. Like you said, the acrobats are amazing.

David

I would love to see some of your other entries if you willing to share. I have one other that I will put up as well based on the great wall.

Regarding position B, I feel that this would provide the player with the best angle to all areas of the green. It would require the golfer keeping the ego in check and not trying to sneak a few more yards by trying to play more towards position C. The greens contours and slope are better suited to a shot approached from the left.

[David Kelly]

I am going to predict that Willow Leaf will be chosen because it is the only one that looks as if it wouldn't cost a fortune to construct and maintain.  It also looks like a golf hole.  I guess sustainability isn't a big consideration over there in Red China.

[David Harshbarger]

Grant,

Here's one I did called waterfall:



PAR 3 – Waterfall

Inspiration – Waterfalls are an iconic natural feature, and not totally unheard of on the golf course.  This interpretation adds a miniature golf character by placing key elements of the hole over the stream before and after the waterfall, and by adding fairways to each side of the falls that can be used to play ground shots around the hillside to the green.

Golf Experience – At the tee, the player is presented with a short (no more than 100 yard) Par 3 from an elevated tee to a narrow green below.  The tee box is set on an earthen “bridge” platform over a stream that drops over a ledge to a pool a moderate distance below.  To the left and right, fairway leads from the level top of the hill down and around the hillside to the green.  The fairway is canted outside to in, and ends at green side.

The green stretches from the left and right arms of the fairway, across the stream, through another earthen “bridge”.  Front and back, the green falls away to collection areas.  The green is divided into three sections.  The left section slopes from the center then mostly levels off to the edge, with the exception of a bump middle left that deflects balls rolling on the green from the fairway, creating an interesting pin placement “A”.

The center section straddles the stream, this section is effectively level.  Pin placements here are protected by the water back and front, so the level green rewards those so daring with a good putt.  Also, players who are left with a pin right or right with a pin left are given a bit of respite judging the break through the middle.

The right section runs downhill center to the right edge, but also includes a spine bisecting the section side to side.  Holes in this section reward players who can find the correct half (front or back) on their tee shot.

Strategically, this hole presents a number of puzzles dictated by pin placement. Pins left and right can be attacked with an aerial or ground shot.  The ground shot around the fairway should play to the proper side of the green, but controlling placement on the green is not possible.  The aerial attack is also available, and shots long or short have generous if collection areas for recovery.  Exact placement is possible, but less well placed shots may find water.

Holes pinned in the center section can only be directly attacked through the air.  However, the green is not deep, and shot on line but long or short will find water.  Shots left and right, whether pin high, short or long, can be played from the collection areas.

For players concerned with the water on holes pinned center, the ball can be played on the ground, taking water out of play, but the second shot must accommodate the green features.

----

Personally, I think the major weakness of this design (other than the presentation) is the Mini-golf nature of the hole. But having thought about the playability, I really believe it would be fun, over and over.  And, with the center of the green arguably the most defended location, this design turns on its head some of the conventional wisdom in golf: the center of the green is "safe".

After I submitted it, I thought some more about the tees and concluded that if multiple tee boxes are aligned along stepped falls, the hole would be more interesting.  One thing I was never able to do to my satisfaction was figure a way to make the hole play with the fairway effect and the green at an angle, so that club selection came into play based on pin location.  In the end, I thought that was less important.

[David Harshbarger]

I am going to predict that Willow Leaf will be chosen because it is the only one that looks as if it wouldn't cost a fortune to construct and maintain.  It also looks like a golf hole.  I guess sustainability isn't a big consideration over there in Red China.

From one thing I read, building courses that create more maintenance, not less, is a plus on some Chinese courses.

Funny your comment on looking like a golf hole.  I read through Brian Curley's comments on this thread, where he said that the more out-of-the-box the design, the better.  I took that to mean that the less the hole looked like a golf hole, the better. In many of the designs I submitted I tried to play with the conventions of what makes up a golf hole.  To my eye Willow is well-rendered, and sound interpretation of the concept, absolutely.  But it also looks like the Willow sword version of the Chopsticks hole presented in the contest concepts.  Many of the submissions in the finals have what I tried to minimize, which is using the concept as ornamentation.  I tried to make the designs a representation of the concept.

This hole, the Waterfall, obviously the golf features aren't representation of a waterfall.  That would be a hole where the fairway cascades down into a billow of sand, and a green of still water emerges past, or somesuch.  But on this hole I tried to integrate the waterfall and the river into the hole, baking the elevation change into the hole's strategy, tying it to the ground vs. air game strategy, and tying in the water flowing away from the hole to the strategy, playing on the line of instinct with the fairways running away from it, etcl.

Some of the entries that I prefer, such as the Acrobats, the Globetrotters (which seems to have the strategy options on the drive out of whack), Symmetry ( I think it's called), the two Panda holes, are more representational.  And I think those deserve more weight: at the end of the day, of course it's a golf hole: the real challenge as I saw it was to make a golf hole seem like something that wasn't a golf hole.

So, for example, the Mirage hole, my goal there was to make a golf hole that looked to the player like nothing more than the desert sands with a Mirage in the distance.  My goal was not to make a golf hole that wandered through the sands in the desert to a green in front of what might be an Oasis.   Whether that could be built, and the illusion maintained day-to-day and week-to-week, I don't know.  But, I do firmly believe that if it could be engineered, it would be a memorable and effective experience.

Dave

[David Harshbarger]

Grant,

Here's another entry, also one that collided in concept, much to surprise, with one of the finalists: Riches to Ruins.



PAR 4 – Machu Picchu

Inspiration – The high Andes royal escape of Machu Picchu is one of the great icons of the world.  Given China’s strong relationship with Peru, it is also an icon that may resonate with the Chinese people.

Golf Experience – Machu Picchu is a par 4 mountain hole that challenges the player to manage significant changes in elevation from tee to green.  From the tee, the player is presented with two main options.  Straight away, the fairway runs down hill and to the right to the base of the terraced green complex.  The fairway is on a valley floor.  To the left is a hill with low vegetation.  To the right is another hill, but has a bench cut into it, on which there is a second fairway.

As the valley runs towards the terraced green complex, it turns right beneath the base of the bench, and continues around the bench hill.

Between the tee and the bench the valley floor is filled with trees whose tops are just below the base of the tee, to give a feeling of being in the sky.

The tee itself is also elevated, and it is cut into the same hill as the bench.  A walkway above the valley floor leads from the tee to the bench (useful maintenance, also).

2 angles of play are readily apparent.  Play to the fairway takes advantage of the natural angle and roll of the valley floor, and should allow players to play close to the base of the green complex.  However, maximizing yardage on the drive has a few pitfalls: drives to close to the base of the terraces brings the terraces into play as vertical hazards; balls that play too much right will continue to roll down the valley floor, possibly obstructing the angle to the pin; playing into the valley requires the player to play up to the green, a vertical height of about 50’.

The second angle of play is to the bench.  The bench is a 130yd carry over trees, is 30 yards wide, and 100 yards long.  While players on the bench will face a longer approach, the bench is at or slightly above the grade of the green.  However, the approach must now carry the valley to reach the green.

For interest, a walkway leads from the end of the bench around the hill to a rope suspension bridge.  The bridge crosses to the hill above the green.

The green complex is terraced in the manner of Machu Picchu, with close mown grass and stone walls.  The green itself is large (40yd by 60yd), with a close hewn slope up the backing hill.  Internal contours on the green are moderate.

Back left of the green are two more terraces and a terraced pyramid.  Hills surrounding the green form a natural amphitheater, dotted with stone ruins.

Machu Picchu is playable, easily read, and an iconic site that in this treatment will provide a memorable experience.

-----------

Dice away.

[Grant Saunders]

David

I really like your ideas and its clear the thought thats gone into them. Machu Picchu would be a great spectator hole for a tournament. It would take a pretty specific piece of land to fit it into, but I think the way they move dirt in China they could have found a way. Its a shame you havent had much feedback on them. It would be interesting to here an architects perspective.

Here is my other entry. This one was almost all about the novelty apsect.





This 205 metres par 3 is inspired by The Great Wall of China.
A long, slightly uphill strong par 3 favours a right to left pitching up the right hand side a using contours to work the ball onto the green.
The green is bisected so that roughly 1/3 sits below the right hand side. This division is created by a rock wall (approx 50cm high?) which winds its way continually along the hole and through the green. The wall in the green is broken in 2 places by “ramps” of greens turf which can be used to play up from the bottom level. When playing from the top to bottom, the ball can simply be putted straight over the wall.
Along the base of the wall, the ground is shaped so a constant slope ensures a ball wont rest right at its base.
The green sits high at the back right creating a slope which favours a running shot and will help the ball towards the middle of the green. The green will be very large (approx 700 sq metres) and easily hit  as the challenge of the hole is about navigating the putting surface.
The key to the hole will be ensuring your ball is on the same plateau as the flag. Failure to do so will almost certainly result in a 3 putt. While 3 putting is not enjoyable, I feel that the unusual nature of this green will offset the frustration with its uniqueness.
A large selection of hole lengths and angles created by many teeing grounds will offer multiple ways to set up the hole. For example, teeing off from “G” to a pin on the bottom portion may prove more difficult at 134 m than playing from tee “B” at 205 m.
With the hole sitting slightly uphill, the wall will feature prominently in the golfers view.

Cheers

[David Harshbarger]

Grant,

I like this concept as a more subtle approach to the Great Wall than the finalist.  Specifically, integrating non-green turf materials into the playing surface certainly makes for a memorable, and this case, rational hole.  My earlier version of Picasso used railroad ties and packed sand at grade to create the illusion of a bunker in the green when seen from afar.  I eliminated in the final drawing as the rationale didn't support it.  In your case, it does. 

From your drawing, it seems the wall bisects just a small portion of the left most green.  Did you consider other placements, like more to the middle?

[Grant Saunders]

David

Thanks for the feedback.

The wall creates roughly a 1/3 lower 2/3 higher division of the surface. The main reasons were to have the higher and easier side the bigger target and give people plenty of chance to hit it. With a green of 700 m2, it would have the right hand side at approx 470m2 which is a reasonable sized green on its own. I felt it to be easier to putt down over the wall than trying to get back up so I wanted to weight it in favour of that scenario.

Also, Im not a huge fan of multi levels where the division occurs in the middle.

[Garland Bayley]

Just as I figured. Art wins over golf. David, I would far rather play some of your creations. I agree with Alex. Acrobats is it. It is the only one of the finalists that I would like to play. The rest of them may as well have been designed by architects well known for giving pretty over golf.

[David Harshbarger]

Garland, why'd you have to be so right?

Thanks for the kind words.

Grant, I was thinking about what I said about the layup areas, and your response.  I thank you because you helped me learn something.  I was carrying a pre-conception that the only players who play from the tips and back tees are long hitters. That led me to conclude the dorsal trap complex was easily carried, and not a threat. That assumption isn't sound, and players of many abilities might play those tees. For them, the B landing area is excellent.  The penalty for not challenging the traps is a longer approach, and that can be traded away for a shot to C where extra yards are swapped for a shallower green and an obscured view.  I like it.