[astavrides]

I played Yocha Dehe (Northern Cal.) last Sat. and the greens were the fastest I've played this year, despite the fact that it had rained that morning.  The pro told me they had been rolled twice that week.  

Do many public or resort courses roll their greens?  
Is it difficult on the turf?  Do they need to aerify more often because of it?
Do places not do it because it makes the greens too hard (unreceptive)?  ...because it slows down play?  

[Michael Hayes]

Greens rolling is used widely for a host of reasons.  As to being hard on turf or increasing compaction, Michigan State University did a great study on rolling with respect to green speed, turf quality, and compaction.  Rolling greens upwards of 20+ times a week might begin to decrease turf quality, but would still have minimal impact on compaction.  This study used both dedicated greens iron type rollers and triplex vibratory style.  Their conclusions, if I remember right, was that regular rolling (4-6/week) shows increases of 6+inches with the triplex type rollers and 9+ with the greens iron types.

My courses have snow cover for 5+ months, I really rely on rollers from around Labor Day onward.  By rolling daily, but only cutting 2-3 times per week I can maintain speeds of 9 - 9.5 and raise my HOC to 0.140in.  By having more above ground turf, I feel it helps the plant store carbs for a very long winter.

Remember, greens speed are not as much of a function of Height Of Cut as much as Firmness and Smoothness and Fertility.

I think more and more GCS's are using rollers in order to maintain turf health while still being able to achieve the need for speed...

hope this helps,

MH

[Steve Okula]

I agree with Mike. Rolling after mowing will yield the same speed as a double mow. Alternating rolling days with mowing days in conjunction with growth regulators can produce some quick greens without stressing them out at low heights of cut.

I have seen a couple of studies that show lightweight turf rollers have a negligible effect on compaction and thatch.  

[Kyle Harris]

The damage from rolling is typically from the changing of the direction of the roller damaging the leaf tissue - operator error.

[Jason Topp]

We bought them this fall in an effort to reduce stress and maintenance costs while maintaining or slightly increasing green speed.  My understanding is that newer rollers are much lighter than older versions.


It will be interesting to see how they work.

[astavrides]

Thanks for the answers thus far.

If it is a positive thing, as the answers thus far indicate, why don't more average to slightly above average public courses regularly do it?  (or perhaps they do and I don't know about it.)  Is it more capital and labor intensive than mowing, or less?

Maybe the fast greens at Yocha Dehe were also a function of it being winter (less growth), as well as smoothness etc.  They did look beautiful in addition to putting fast.  Incidentally, the second fastest I've played this year may have been Pajaro Valley (which is no fancy resort course) about a month ago.

[Chris Buie]

That image is probably from the Tufts Archives.  They used to roll the fairways as well as the greens - back in the day.
Nice post Michael Hayes.

[Chris Tritabaugh]

I think rolling is generally thought of as something high end courses do; at least from the viewpoint of mid to low end superintendents. It shouldn't be this way. I grew up working at a small town municipal. Places like this could benefit greatly from a rolling program, yet most of them cast it off as too expensive.

Alternating mowing and rolling is very effective for maintaining speeds and cutting mowing stress on those plants in half makes a world of difference. Reduce stress, reduce mowing, maybe raise height of cut and pretty soon your plants are demanding fewer inputs. Not to mention the rolling would produce conditions many of these courses have not seen before. Dedicated rollers are about $15,000 and I believe if used properly the cost can be made up in one or two seasons.

Small low-budget course would do well to get on a regular rolling program, IMHO.

[Cristian]

Is the effectiveness of rolling greens affected by type of grass, soil and climate? Or is it a viable option in any circumstances to reduce stress and increase speeds?

[Randy Thompson]

The soil definetly is a factor, a USGA greens or sand based greens in general will tolerate much more than push up greens and thats why a lot of clubs with push up greens refrain from the practice. Bermuda in general is a tougher grass in comparrison with bent and can with stand more abuse. When any grass is out of itīs ideal growing conditions, ie climatic, one should refrain from creating anything that could causes more stress and rolling and turning on the turf creates some degree of stress. Its a viable tool for increasing putting green quality when managed properly under the correct circumstances.

[Mat Dunmyer]

This is a good time of year for supers in northern california in terms of greenspeeds. Our soil temperatures have not been above 52 degrees for the last 10 days so therefore little to no growth. So mowing on top of rolling when the grass isn't growing will only smooth and quicken the surface. Verticutting to thin the canopy and then rolling after will quicken greens also due to less leaf tissue contacting the golf ball.

Mat Dunmyer

[mike_malone]

 Alex,

  I  hope you realize how this topic will screw up my future searches for 'Rolling Green"

[astavrides]

Alex,

  I  hope you realize how this topic will screw up my future searches for 'Rolling Green"

I did actually think about that briefly when I titled the thread.  I suppose I could have called it the putting surface instead of the green.  :-)

[Kyle Harris]

Alex:

To further the discussion a little bit:

I think the affect of rolling is dependent on the height of cut and many public facilities just are not of the mindset to lower their heights of cut enough to get more marginal benefit out of the rolling.

This may change as the current practice being taught to many budding superintendents is that rolling can be used to offset a day or two of mowing per week during the slow growth season (July and August here in the Northeast).

[Ryan DeMay]

Alex:

To further the discussion a little bit:

I think the affect of rolling is dependent on the height of cut and many public facilities just are not of the mindset to lower their heights of cut enough to get more marginal benefit out of the rolling.

This may change as the current practice being taught to many budding superintendents is that rolling can be used to offset a day or two of mowing per week during the slow growth season (July and August here in the Northeast).

Kyle,

I was just wondering what your thoughts were in regards to how low is low enough to see measurable benefits from regular rolling?  The reason I ask is because I know of a Top 100 club here in Ohio that was never below .140" this season and was consistently rolling 11.5 plus (saw it with my own eyes).  They were able to achieve those speeds through rolling greens, once and sometimes twice, all while significantly reducing the amount of double mowing when compared to years past.

Regular rolling is a fantastic tool for maintaining consistently true, smooth, and quick putting surfaces throughout the season.  The reality is though that there are so many other facets of greens management that need to be in harmony for speeds to be consistent, let alone allow for increases in pace when necessary (i.e. tournaments, special events, etc.).  Topdressing, water management, plant posture practices (grooming, verticutting, brushing), pest management, and just knowing when you can push them and when it's time to let up on them a little bit are all factors in how a specific green or a set of greens will play day-to-day, week-to-week and so on. 

[astavrides]

Alex:

To further the discussion a little bit:

I think the affect of rolling is dependent on the height of cut and many public facilities just are not of the mindset to lower their heights of cut enough to get more marginal benefit out of the rolling.

This may change as the current practice being taught to many budding superintendents is that rolling can be used to offset a day or two of mowing per week during the slow growth season (July and August here in the Northeast).

I'm surprised that July and August is slow growth season.  Could someone explain to me why that would be?

[SB]

We've started using them at a number of our courses.  The places we have them in have less to do with turf type or course type but more by who the super is and where they were trained.  Used ones are getting hard to find.

[Randy Thompson]

[/quote]
Because the predominant grasses are poa and bentgrass and more often than not a mixture of the two. Both are cool season grasses and temperatures in July and august

I'm surprised that July and August is slow growth season.  Could someone explain to me why that would be?
[/quote]
Because the predominant grasses are poa and bentgrass and more often than not a mixture of the two. Both are cool season grasses and temperatures in July and August are out of the optimum growth range. High soil temp, high humidity and day time temps over 90 cause the plant to shut down more or less to protect itself. These are simple terms, many could go into much more scientific terms and explaninations.

[Michael Powers]

Our greens were rebuilt in the fall of '06 and early spring of 07 with L-93 bentrgrass.  Poa annua has been kept off of them througout.  We have the newer light weight rollers and roll 3 or 4 times a week when the weather permits, fewer times if it is too hot.  From the time we opened them in 06 until present, we have experienced a tremendous amount of grain on all putting surfaces.  After 2 consultants, taking plugs up to 4 times a year, frequent top dressing, and alternating weeks with brushing and verticutting, they are still very grainy and so soft that a high wedge shot can sometimes stay in its own pitchmark.  We are now going to perform genetic testing to see if the grass is truly L-93.  Is L-93 a very grainy grass?  Can frequent rolling of greens that have plants that are laid over perpetuate the problem of grain? 

 

[Randy Thompson]

Our greens were rebuilt in the fall of '06 and early spring of 07 with L-93 bentrgrass.  Poa annua has been kept off of them througout.  We have the newer light weight rollers and roll 3 or 4 times a week when the weather permits, fewer times if it is too hot.  From the time we opened them in 06 until present, we have experienced a tremendous amount of grain on all putting surfaces.  After 2 consultants, taking plugs up to 4 times a year, frequent top dressing, and alternating weeks with brushing and verticutting, they are still very grainy and so soft that a high wedge shot can sometimes stay in its own pitchmark.  We are now going to perform genetic testing to see if the grass is truly L-93.  Is L-93 a very grainy grass?  Can frequent rolling of greens that have plants that are laid over perpetuate the problem of grain? 

[/quote]
The grain is best controlled through frequent grooming, plus the practices you listed. Sounds like they are trying to get thatch under controll. I will be surprized if they bought L-93 and then find it was something else. The bent family in general is not hard to controll the grain with frequent grooming. Most of the newer varieties including L-93 have more of a upright growth habit in comparrison to the old penncross greens. I canīt see rolling increasing a problem with grain and have never read anything in research stating that it does. Soft greens usually are a result of thatch build up or over watering or a combination of both. These comments are in general, many times there are more complicated and complex issues, for example something could be impedding the water from perculating properly causing the surface to be constantly wet and therefore soft. If the club has had a couple of consulting visits and the programs are being followed as outlined by rhe consultants you should see improvements in the near future.

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