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Steve_ Shaffer

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« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 06:20:29 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) news...
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2009, 10:34:28 AM »
I drove past here this weekend and there is A LOT of springs that have to be grown in, but there is alot more sandy waste areas, that is for sure.

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

David Stamm

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) news...
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 11:00:30 AM »
Kind of funny seeing a guy do a restoration (the jury will be out on this I guess) who argued up and down that Hyde Park is indeed a Ross when evidence has been found recently that it was a Thompson.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Phil_the_Author

Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) news...
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 12:51:53 PM »
I see they have the ultimate in bad green committees invovled.

"There will be a public hearing at 5:30 p.m. Tuesday at the club, 7001 Parker Ave., to let city residents suggest other changes..."

Steve_ Shaffer

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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Mark Luckhardt

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 06:04:36 AM »
David,

I am going to Hyde Park in a few weeks. The superintendent there never mentioned Thompson being involved, and he is a Canadian. Anything specific I should look for to distinguish the Ross from the Thompson? 

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 09:15:20 AM »
I'm going to try to play there this weekend. I say pics yeterday of the course from the grand opening-ALOT of sand instead of rough..A LOT!

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

John Mayhugh

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2009, 08:04:03 AM »
Tony,
Did you get a chance to check out the course?

I'm going to be down in Stuart during the week after Christmas and am very interested in the restoration work done here.  Also, my buddy won't believe that there is a course in south Florida with no water hazards.

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2009, 09:11:44 AM »
John,
  I tried, but because I'm still not officially a resident, I had to sign up on the internet in hopes of a tees time. Unfortunately, I wasnt called. I'd tried to get you're name in early, because the golf poplulation is starting to get bigger around here!

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

John Mayhugh

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 09:33:36 AM »
Tony,
Sorry you didn't get to see it.  We'll probably be trying to play on a weekday, so maybe chances of getting out will be better.  But I'm also going to go ahead and give the internet request route a try.

JC Jones

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2009, 09:14:56 PM »
Bumping this because John Mayhugh and I played it today.  I'll post pics and more commentary tomorrow.  For now, lets just say I was pleasantly surprised.  It is the first work of Dick Wilson I have seen and it is very much unlike anything I've seen before.  The course is a lot of fun and the turf was quite nice considering its only been open for a a month or so.

I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Matt_Ward

Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2009, 09:45:37 PM »
As an FYI -- years ago Digest had West Palm Beach CC among the top 25 public courses in the USA - believe it was back in 1984. I never understood that although the layout at that time was clearly above average. It was not at national acclaim level for me when lumped in with the likes of BB anmd CH.

Be curious to hear what has happened in the intervening time frame - and if those who have played both the pre and post can offer any insights.

goldj

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2010, 01:16:28 AM »
Course lies on natural sand dunes which run up southeast coast of Florida and which present themselves at courses such as Gulfstream, Palm Beach CC, Seminole, Jupiter Hills, McArthur and on several courses in Vero area including Jonathan's Island West.  Restoration cleared out years of neglected encroachment, natural, but unplanned, tree growth with accompanying underbrush and returned course to original open vistas and sand covered areas.   

Clubhouse contains some wonderful pictures of course's early days including a number including Palmer and Nicklaus playing there in early 60's. 

Jerry Kluger

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2010, 12:01:16 PM »
I played it this week and really enjoyed it.  They got rid of nearly all the trees and the course really breathes well.  I played it many years ago and it felt really cramped and the grass had a tough time with limited sunlight. They replaced the trees with sandy waste areas but unfortunately for economic reasons they used the wrong sand and there are signs telling you not to drive the golf carts in the waste areas which are really big and purposely have no lips.  The property is not flat at all which gives it a great deal of character - I don't know if it is natural or is the result of earth moving. They didn't have money to update the clubhouse which really needs some freshening as it has a musty odor to it.  The other downside is that they use 7 minute intervals for tee times so they usually run 30 minutes behind.  Overall, I think it is a real good value for players in Palm Beach County. 

Matt_Ward

Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2010, 05:17:45 PM »
Jerry:

Thanks for the update.

Curious to know how good the overall turf conditions are.

The big issue for me when I played there nearly 25 years ago was that a number of the holes were cluttered with too many trees and as a result it become the same ho-hum repetition thing with one shot followed by the same followed by the same, etc, etc.

I still have to wonder what Digest thought made the course so appealing as a top 25 public layout for the entire USA way back when.

Given what you wrote about it -- I may include on my next FL foray when I visit the PGA Show in Orlando -- as I had previously planned to see a good college friend located near Colony West.

John Mayhugh

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2010, 06:44:39 PM »
As Jason mentioned, we met up at WPB yesterday to take a look at the restoration.  Neither of us had ever played the course before, so I cannot compare the restored course to the other.  I can enthusiastically recommend the course we played.

When I think of Dick Wilson, I think of large elevated greens and water hazards (probably dug as way to create the greens).  WPB has the greens, but none of the water.  There is a lot of width off the tee, but if you don't want to play an aerial approach you better find the right position from the tee.  The turf was outstanding.  Firm and reasonably fast, with fairways about as good as you can get with bermuda.  The greens were firm but would hold well-played shots.  A windy day and firm conditions made for an adventurous round.

The only negative with the course is the sand that Jerry mentioned.  I don't know if it will firm up to play like more of a waste area in the future, but for now it adds too much difficulty.  The sand plays like dunes sand and one of the maintenance activities I noticed was workers shoveling sand up off the cart paths and moving it to the waste area. 


Following are some photos from the day.  Course is very appealing visually and plays really well (other than the waste areas).  Riding is mandatory until the afternoon.  We started around 10AM and got around a busy course in just a shade over 4 hours which was a pleasant surprise, especially given the wind.  I paid $60 - a great deal for that area and pleasant way to end the year.

Will try to go back and add some commentary later.

















Some locals we let play through.

















































John Mayhugh

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2010, 03:02:57 PM »
It's also worth noting that WPBCC cost $60 to ride (mandatory until 2:30) on a weekday, just $5 more on weekends.  This is an extremely good deal for public golf in that part of the country.  The Nicklaus re-do of North Palm (not bad, but inferior to WPB) charges $125 on weekends in high season!

JC Jones

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2010, 04:11:59 PM »
I wont post as many pictures because John just about covered all the holes.  Like John, I was pleasantly surprised.  I had absolutely no idea what to expect because I had not played a Dick Wilson course nor had I played on the sand dune area of Florida north of Ft Lauderdale.

I walked away from the course thinking that it played and looked as though DW had this big piece of sand to work with and molded some fairways, built up some greens and called it good.  So, it was much more natural than most Florida golf (or at least it appeared to be).  The bunkering was very MacKenzie-esque in that you had some cool amoeba shapes and when looking back down the hole to the tee you could not see any bunkers.  The greens were big and built up but had good internal movement.  Like John said, the course can be played aerially but you better have your tee shot on the right side of the hole or else you'd have very little chance at holding the green, especially with the wind.

I didn't have a problem with the waste areas.  They played like dunes or bunkers and I'm assuming they will firm up and pack down to be more like waste areas (although it sounds like the had to buy cheap sand).  That being said, I'd rather have dunes sand that penalized me for hitting a fairway but allowed me to make a recovery shot than swamp/water/woods that you find on 99% of other Florida courses.  This is evidenced by the fact that I played 1 ball the entire round.

Here are a couple pictures to supplement what John has already posted:

This shot is obligatory and I am very happy to say my 3rd of the year!!



This is the 2nd hole approach shot.  A par 5 where reaching the green must be done from the right side as that is the only open side to the green.  My shot, from the left, required a carry over the bunkers which was difficult, even with a short iron.



The 4th hole is a long par 4 up a hill; as you can see there is a lot of room off the tee.  This is representative of most of the course.



The 280 yard par 4 5th where John uttered the famous words "I didn't come all the way from Kentucky to lay up"



As you can tell from the picture below, the par 4 6th has a preferred line of play up the right side which requires you to challenge the bunker




The par 3 7th.  Long, 200 yards and up hill.  One of my favorite holes on the course.  You can tell from the American flag what the prevailing wind is and it was blowing.  A shot played at the right bunker will ride the wind to the middle of a green.  A runner could also be played to the opening on the right.  The aerial shot was executed to perfection by John; I, on the other hand, was in the waste area to the left which is very cool as it transitions seamlessly into the bunker guarding the front/left.  There was a lot of this waste area to maintained bunker transition around the course.




The 8th tee.  Again, although my camera angle doesnt show it the best, notice the significant amount of room off the tee to the right.  Notice, however, that the safe road requires the much more difficult approach.




The approach to the 8th from the preferred angle




Moving along, the approach to the 10th, a long par 4 (450 yards) into the wind and dog leg from left to right.




The 12th is a downhill par 5 that would be reachable but for the fact it was playing into the wind for us.  A shot challenging the green but ending up left of target will leave you with this very difficult but cool pitch




The approach to the par 5 18th.  A very cool hole to end a very cool round





All in all, a very fun course and a perfect muni.  The sandy waste areas keep play moving along nicely even though they move in 7 minute tee times.  We waited on just about every shot and played in just over 4 hours.  Although this was likely faster because Mayhugh insisted we play in carts. ;)

I can't wait to see more of Dick Wilson's work.  After playing this course and reading the article posted by Tony Nysse on the other thread, sounds like he was a different kind of dude from the others in the post WWII modern era.  Likely a result of being trained under Flynn.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2010, 04:16:28 PM »
The combination of rectangular tees and wavy-edged waste bunkers outside of them is REALLY bad.

Amazing, too, that all of the waste areas seem to be parallel to holes, and you never hit across one of them from a tee.  [Well, maybe over the edge of one or two.]

PS to Anthony, if you actually played the course:  Are all those waste areas easily maintained?  Or will they become weedy and then grassy without regular maintenance?  [I recall that the waste areas at the original TPC at Sawgrass were not maintenance-free; they got grown over with bermuda fairly quickly.]

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2010, 05:00:45 PM »
The combination of rectangular tees and wavy-edged waste bunkers outside of them is REALLY bad.

Amazing, too, that all of the waste areas seem to be parallel to holes, and you never hit across one of them from a tee.  [Well, maybe over the edge of one or two.]

PS to Anthony, if you actually played the course:  Are all those waste areas easily maintained?  Or will they become weedy and then grassy without regular maintenance?  [I recall that the waste areas at the original TPC at Sawgrass were not maintenance-free; they got grown over with bermuda fairly quickly.]

Tom,

I noticed the contrast between the rectangle tees and the otherwise not rectangular course when playing.  I didn't think much of it because it is an aesthetic issue and didn't affect the playability of the course.

With respect to your question from Tony, from what I understand the majority of what McCumber did there was restore the waste areas which had become overgrown with grasses.  It was very wind the day we played and much of the sand was blowing so it would make sense that seed will eventually blow into the waste areas.  In addition, the sand they used was very inexpensive and light in weight so they had many grounds crew members out blowing the sand and shoveling it back into the waste areas where it had blown out.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2010, 03:49:22 PM »
The combination of rectangular tees and wavy-edged waste bunkers outside of them is REALLY bad.

Amazing, too, that all of the waste areas seem to be parallel to holes, and you never hit across one of them from a tee.  [Well, maybe over the edge of one or two.]


I barely noticed the rectangular tee contrast.  Some of those aesthetics don't really bother me.

There were more carries across the waste areas than the photos make it appear.  The degree of the carry depended on what side of the tee you were on and your fairway target, but I certainly felt the need to carry the waste area a few times.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: West Palm Beach GC(Wilson) now reopen after restoration
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2010, 06:18:53 PM »
After user complaints about too much sand, the course was redone:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/golf/once-a-wasteland-west-palm-beach-golf-course-1076355.html

See the comment to the article.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

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