all Bandon 18

[PThomas]

Tom and Jim,

Regarding #10 and #12 OM...
Most of the caddies that I play/work with dislike those two holes because they are just too difficult for 90% + of the resort's guests.

pshaw...i parred 10-12 first time i played there!

I played OM twice that day...first time i took a 5 wood and hit a nice shot on 12...that landed 30 feet over the green (where i 2putted from)

afternoon round, wind was up...hit a nice 4 iron ...that landed about 1 foot from my shot in the morning

i just played too much club each time for the conditions

[William_G]

#1 Trails, beautiful view from the black tee
#2 Trails, sand, wind and trees
#3 Pacific, risk reward!
#4 Bandon, unzipping
#4 Pacific, two great shots here
#5 Bandon, classic, now with no gorse
#5 Old Mac, love the view of the green from the black tee
#8 Trails, risk, reward, what a green, LOL
#6 Old Mac, love it

#10 Bandon, big drive and short mostly blind 2nd!
#14 Trails, birdie or a double, LOL
#12 Bandon, the first hole built at Bandon, and a great one!
#13 Pacific, best/toughest par 4 on property?
#17 Pacific, long, but on the ground par 3
#3 Trails, eagle opportunity
#16 Bandon, is that a flag out there?
#17 Old Mac, a classic hole!
#18 Old Mac, the punch bowl to finish and go shake the starter's hand, thank you!

[Jim Adkisson]

My favorite Bandon 18 Hole Composite would be as follows
   
Boy I wish I was playing there now…I can feel an impulsive Bandon road trip in the near future.

Boy I wish I was playing there yesterday too...there was snow overnight Monday and it didn't thaw off...we never were able to tee off.

 

[Jim Adkisson]

#8 Pacific ... front left pin might be the most difficult hole location on the property

Agreed....birdied on Monday morniing round...I was VERY happy with how I played that hole...

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I cannot wait to play Old Mac to join in this. Bill by the by I think 13 and 16 are worse than 17 at BD.

[Cristian]

I'm surprised at the relative lack of love for some holes... (*)

PAR-3 HOLES

OM 8*
PD 17*
BT 2
PD 11

PAR-4 HOLES

BD 4
BD 11*
OM 16
OM 7
OM 13*
PD 13
OM 3
BD 16
PD 2
BT 14
OM 18

PAR-5 HOLES

BT 3
OM 15
PD 3

...might be different tomorrow of course...

[Tom_Doak]

I am pretty surprised there is not more support for the sixth at Pacific, which just a couple of years ago was often nominated as the single best hole on the course.

And not a single vote for the 16th at Pacific!  What a bunch of wimps!   

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

You make a valid point - leaving off the 16th at Pac was an oversight on my part.

I'd switch off the 14th at Old Mac and replace it accordingly.

The same applies for the 1st at BT versus the 6th at Pac. Tough call and likely I would need to think about it -- but a switch there is also worthwhile.

Cristian:

How do you justify picking the 15th at Old Mac over the 17th there as a par-5 hole ?

[Cory Brown]

I can't believe there has been so little mention of #4 at Pacific.  What a spectacular, challenging hole.  Also everyone mentions #14 at BT, but I have had far more difficulties with #13.  It's pretty, but a small mistake can be punished with a ten+. (I'm still reeling from my round last February!)

[Matt_Ward]

Cory:

Good point but think of it this way -- the 13th at Pac is the better of the two holes -- they share a similar characteristic along the coastline albeit going in opposite directiuons.

In regards to the 13th at BT -- the approach is indeed really special -- however -- for me, the tee shot dimension is much less so and is the key reason why I left it on the sidelines.

[Tim Bert]

Today's list, as this changes every time I try it...

Par 3s
PD 5
PD 11
BD 12
OM 2

Par 5s
PD 15
PD 3
OM 6

Par 4s
PD 2
PD 6
PD 13
BD 4
BD 5
BT 1
BT 4
BT 15
OM 3
OM 7
OM 16

I think the par 5s are the weakest class of holes at the resort. I only went with three because I couldn't find a fourth that made me excited enough to remove a par 4 and I still have 3 or 4 other par 4s that I want to put on the list that don't fit. I could have even gone with only two par 5s but u settled on adding PD 3 instead.

[William_G]

I am pretty surprised there is not more support for the sixth at Pacific, which just a couple of years ago was often nominated as the single best hole on the course.

And not a single vote for the 16th at Pacific!  What a bunch of wimps!   

Love #6! Just can't have them all.

#16 is the 2nd most difficult 2nd shot on the property, #14 at Trails being the 1st. However, with #14 I've had a ton more birdies, where on 16 I'm always happy to escape with par no matter what I do! LOL. Happy Thanksgiving!

Anytime you are in Bandon, come play Eugene Country Club, love to have you see it.

[Sven Nilsen]

Par 71 - 5 par 3's, 4 par 5's, 9 par 4's

Par 3's

BT 5 and 17
PD 11 and 17
OM 5

Hard to leave BD 12 off the list

Par 5's

PD 3
BT 3 and 9
OM 6

Considered having only 3 par 5's and an extra par 4

Par 4's

PD - 6, 7, 13
BT - 6, 13, 14, 15
OM - 3, 7, 16
BD - 4, 5

You could swap in PD 2, 4 16, BT 8, OM 4, 11, 13, 18 and BD 16 and I'd still be fine with the list.

[Cristian]

Tom:

You make a valid point - leaving off the 16th at Pac was an oversight on my part.

I'd switch off the 14th at Old Mac and replace it accordingly.

The same applies for the 1st at BT versus the 6th at Pac. Tough call and likely I would need to think about it -- but a switch there is also worthwhile.

Cristian:

How do you justify picking the 15th at Old Mac over the 17th there as a par-5 hole ?

I think they are both great holes, but I really like the 15th as sidewinds (summer or winter) make the T-shot interesting and I also love the uphill approach where you have to make sure to hit enough club to get the ball on the green, which is deep enough, but still will see some balls run through to trouble at the back for the golfer who does not judge the distance AND trajectory of his shot with considerable accuracy, especially if he is attacking a back pin.

17 is also great, but I feel that (in the summer winds I witnessed)  the golfer who takes the agressive route on the right might still find trouble in the bunkers surrounding the landing zone. As an 11 handicapper I just cannot imagine a scenario wich would make it worthwhile for me to attack the right side and go for the green in two. I realise that for better players this is probably different. So perhaps I should just say that for me 15 is more fun, rather than a better hole.

[David Botimer]

Tom and Jim,

Regarding #10 and #12 OM...

I don't mind the tee shot on #10.  Sometimes it's difficult to pick an appropriate line for different players.  It's the green site that that is too extreme.  If the front of the green was the same height as say #15 Pacific, I would probably even like the hole.  Even a well struck shot is hard to chase up that hill, and don't even think about trying to fly it in there downwind.

The same goes for #12.  Just too big a slope on both sides of the green for the majority of players to have a chance.  I've witnessed as many players "ping-pong" their shots from one side to the other as I have seen on #14 Trails.

Two questions:

#10:  What % of golfers have you seen go over the back of the green and down into the bunker on #5?  That's the only part of the hole which worried me.  I was surprised how often I saw players fly it to the green and hold it in the early days of play, but I wasn't there much with a stiff summer wind.

#12:  It is EXTREMELY difficult to get the ball to stay on the green from over the back right, I will grant you that.  But do many players really start playing ping-pong after a missed tee shot left?  If not, then I would suggest you all need to reevaluate how you look at the hole.

Tom,

#10:  Well less than 5% for me.  I'd guess less than 5 total all summer long.  At the same time, I'd guess the GIR stat is also less than 5%.  The bunkering in the fairway off the tee causes so much havoc a lot of players simply don't have a realistic shot at the green in regulation.  Most second shots are front and center, with a smaller percentage ending up just left of the green between bunker and green (probably the best miss)

#12:  I had one player in each of my last two loops end up long and right, and yes, played ping pong from there.  It is just a VERY hard green to hold.  I'd put the GIR stat much like #10, less than 5%.  It doesn't even seem to discriminate on skill level.  I've seen very skilled players not hit the green routinely.  At the Battle at Bandon (club pro-am in October) our group pro was former touring pro and he missed the green, I believe both rounds.  Key difference good players tend to miss short and left and get up and down.

[Darren Gloster]

Two questions:

#10:  What % of golfers have you seen go over the back of the green and down into the bunker on #5?  That's the only part of the hole which worried me.  I was surprised how often I saw players fly it to the green and hold it in the early days of play, but I wasn't there much with a stiff summer wind.

Tom - We certainly played ten in a stiff summer wind.  Probably 4 -5 clubs.  Playing to a front pin for both our rounds.  Pin probably cut on 15 feet

First time round I had 9 iron second shot hit it perfectly, landed three feet on and finished about 6 feet past the hole.  In the afternoon I had PW hit an ok shot landed short and it ran through the green into the bunker on the 5th, had a lie that was all but unplayable and took 7.  Didnt find it fair and through the hole suffered because of it.  Granted our conditions were extreme and I do like to reserve judgement on a course for at least 72 holes, but 10 is behind the 8 ball because of the way I was punished.

Also off topic, but feedback nevertheless on 9 I blocked a driver in the morning.  WAAAAY right.  Almost hit the maintenance path.  Walked down there, found my ball pin high.  Got it up and down for 3.  In the afternoon I just aimed down there as with that wind you can blow it past the trouble.  Might be worth the guys trying to grow up the rough in that area to penalise the wayward tee shot.  Right.  Ensure it gets its rightful whack.

Finally 11 was driver/driver for us and really didnt allow us to experience the hole.  In that wind it really should be played at about 330or 340 to bring the Road Hole bunker in to play.  It was really quite straightforward for our group.  Driver/Driver.  Right at all costs and try and get up and down.  bunker not really in play as most right handers will finish right into that breeze anyway.

Into that wind 9,10,11,12 was a low point and left me wondering how much my view was effected because of the conditions and whether I would like them more in a two club breeze for example

[William_G]

I have played more driver/drivers than anywhere else @ OM. Lots of long N/S par4's winter or summer.

FWIW, the driver off the deck is my new favorite shot to hit. (Taylormade Superfast TP (9.5) LOL

[Darren Gloster]

Par 3's
BD - 12,
PD - 11, 17
BT - 2
OM - 5

Par 4's
BD - 16,4,8
PD - 6,13
BT - 8,13,15
OM - 3,7,18

Par 5's
OM - 15, 17
BD - 3

[Darren Gloster]

Par 3's
BD - 12,
PD - 11, 17
BT - 2
OM - 5

Par 4's
BD - 16,4,8
PD - 6,13
BT - 8,13,15
OM - 3,7,18

Par 5's
OM - 15, 17
BD - 3

Oops 19 holes.  Drop3 on BD.  Par 69.  Hmmmmm not sure it would fly although the Par 3's are pretty handy

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

I was just wondering how BT and BD can have more than three holes apiece for a total 18.

Old Mac & Pac are just stacked with stellar holes.

Interestingly, the par-5 dimension is giving people a tough time.

[William_G]

Matt,

I guess it's that the sum of the parts does not equal the whole or something to that effect.

Trails and Bandon have some great holes!

Thanks

[Gary Daughters]

Matt,

I came away thinking/feeling that Bandon Trails is a spectacular course.  Part of that may be the way it stands out as a stark contrast from the other three courses, but to your question I saw some very strong holes out there.  The par 3's are all superb in their own ways be it visually or from the standpoint of playability or both.  The 5's are not necessarily that strong, although #9 is very intriguing in a way I can't quite put my finger on.. it seems pretty straight forward and yet I couldn't find the right way to play it.  

There's an abundance of intrigue and variety in the par 4's:

#4:  wonderfully counter-intuitive tee-shot.  Even having played the holes two days before I could not convince myself to aim straight over the ridge, as the hole would seem to want to bend around to the right.

#6:  very nice green complex that, typical of much of the course, seems to fit perfectly into its surroundings

#7: very neat hole tee to green and requires 2 strong shots.

#10:  how do i explain.. from the green it feels like a completely different hole than it does from the tee.. like some transformation has occured along the way.  i don't expect anyone to understand that.

#11:  huge green is maybe the calmest, quietest, coolest place i have seen on a golf course.  

#13:  fun tee shot, terrifying approach.  i hit twice to the front of the green and felt as though i had really accomplished something

#14: never seen a hole that short with bigger balls.

[Darren Gloster]

Matt,

I guess it's that the sum of the parts does bot equal the whole or something to that effect.

Trails and Bandon have some great holes!

Thanks

I would have to agree here.  I like to rate holes on a scale of 1 to 5.  And whilst Old Mac and Pac Dunes may perform better when you add up the total 18, they dont neccessarily have the most 5's.

Just for interest sake I have BD with 6 holes that score 5 and the other three with 5.  Yet BD's overall score was lower than the other 3.

[Matt_Ward]

Darren:

You'll need to post your complete listing to provide some specifics.

I see Pac and Old Mac with the better diversity and the better top tier holes.

BT and Bandon do have their share -- like I said i see the trio of #4, #5 and #6 at Bandon being first rate -- after that the pickings start dropping. Much of BT is really about the start and end series of holes. The middle is really good but far from spectacular.

[Tim Bert]

Here's my quick list of "5 star" holes by course.  Let's see yours Matt.

Pacific Dunes
2, 5, 6, 7, 11, 13 (I'm certain most won't agree with 5 and I could probably add 15 just to raise the hair on the back of Matt's neck or 8 just to kiss up to Tom Doak but I won't)

Old Macdonald
2, 5, 6, 7, 16 (I could make a case for a few more here as well but I won't)

Bandon Dunes
4, 5, 11, 12

Bandon Trails
1, 4, 14, 15 (included 15 even though it didn't make my bandon hole by hole list and pacific 15 did.  No, I can't explain why.  The list would change tomorrow.)

All have a large number of 4 star holes as well in my opinion