Devereux Emmet Society

[TEPaul]

Jim Kennedy:

Of course they asked him. I doubt he just told them he was going to be that without them asking him.

I have and have seen all the WNC incorporation and setup documents and my recollection is the principles and the entire makeup of the club originally was all women. All those documents are sophisticated for sure. Perhaps Emmet was also a lawyer and none of us have realized that.

[DMoriarty]

According to a Boston Globe article  (July 2, 1905) about the Emmet family in Ireland and America, Emmet was an attorney. 

[DMoriarty]

Tricks - a search of the American Golfer archives up to 1935 doesn't bring up Mayflower either. A lot of entries though for the Mayflower Cup, played there in Buffalo/upstate since the early 1900s.

Peter

Emmet designed a course at the "Mayflower Club" in Huguenot, Staten Island around 1930.

[Mike Sweeney]

Be curious to hear from Tom Mac and Jim Kennedy, what courses do you think are the Top 3 of so Emmet courses that can be/should be restored using St George's as a model of sorts.

That is a very good question and I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer it. I love St. George's, Huntington and Belmont Hills (here in Ohio), but I'd rather submit to the Emmet experts like Chris Blakely, Mark, and Daniel Wexler. I asked Chris several years ago on GCA what he thought were DE's top half dozen best designs:

!. St. Georges
2. Leatherstocking
3. Wee Burn
4. Mohawk
5. McGregor Links
6. Huntington Cresent West
7. Meadowbrook
8. Congressional
9. Seawane
10. Pelham

Wee Burn (CT) keeps coming up in a bunch of categories. If I understand it from Mark, the original routing is pretty much in place and when I drove by it recently it looked like a nice piece of land.

Seawane did a renovation well documented here and I doubt they would reverse it. I have not played Pelham and they can't reverse I-95 but perhaps a partial restoration is possible. They along with Wee Burn would appear to be healthy clubs financially due to location(s).

[Mike Sweeney]

Tricks - a search of the American Golfer archives up to 1935 doesn't bring up Mayflower either. A lot of entries though for the Mayflower Cup, played there in Buffalo/upstate since the early 1900s.

Peter

Emmet designed a course at the "Mayflower Club" in Huguenot, Staten Island around 1930.

I am guessing that is the current South Shore GC managed by American Golf for NYC. It is listed as a Tull course:

http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/course.aspx?course=822545

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,
Recently I was using the comparison feature on the Historic Aerials site and Wee Burn's 1934 footprint/routing/bunkering scheme is little different than today's, so it's got that going for it.

I found this blog by the Town of Pelham historian. There are a dozen or so rememberances about golf courses in Pelham on this list.

http://www.historicpelham.com/BlogArchive/BlogIndex.htm

[Tom MacWood]

When Emmet and Tull were partners was Emmet still actively involved in design? In other words did they collaborate or did they work separately, or were those Emmet & Tull courses really Tull courses?

[Jim_Kennedy]

TMac,
I don't know the answer to your question, but I.K. Fulton (Hob Nob Hill) was friends with the Warners, Rands and Sherwoods, all residents of Salisbury and family members of Emmet. I've seen where the guys who know the most about Emmet say that HNH was his last golf course.

The family connection could have brought him here, as it did to Edison CC.

[Robert Emmons]

Tom Mac,

In 1929 Huntington CC had Emmet, Emmet, and Tull do the renovation of Dev's 1910 design. Tull was in charge of the construction side of the reno with Dev sr doing the design...RHE

[Jim_Kennedy]

In one of the articles I have about the Schalgren course it says that Emmet was at the course with Tull in the second week of July, 1930.

It also says that:  "At present he(Emmet) is building the 18-hole course of the Atlantic City Golf andYacht club."

[Jim_Kennedy]

Steve Shaffer,
An American Golfer obit/memorial article about Emmet from 1935 lists some of his courses.
From the 'personal' section:
   
In addition he laid out and built private courses for Charles M. Schwab, Harrison Williams, Thomas Fortune Ryan, H. F. Dupont, and Mrs. Graham Fair Vanderbilt.

That seems like it would be Immergrun, if they have it correct.

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1935/ag385e.pdf

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Jim,

Thanks but has anyone contacted or visited St. Francis U concerning the Ross plans?

[Tom MacWood]

I've added Rockaway River.

Farmington CC (Ct)
Hob Nob Hill GC (Ct)
Keney Park GC (Ct)
Ridgewood CC (Ct)
Wee Burn CC (Ct)
Henry DuPont Estate (De)
Beaver Dam (Md)
Congressional CC (Md)
Cape Cod CC (Ma)
Lenox GC (Ma)
Cooper River CC (NJ)
Greenarces CC (NJ)
Rockaway River CC (NJ)
Albany CC (NY)
Lenox Hills CC (NY) [Bethpage-Green]
Briarcliff Manor CC (NY)
Broadmoor CC (NY)
Salisbury Links (NY) [Cherry Valley]
Coldstream GC (NY)
Edison CC (NY)
Salisbury GL #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 (NY) [Eisenhower Park]
Garden City GC (NY)
Women’s National G&CC (NY) [Glen Head]
Glenwood CC (NY) [North Shore]
Grassy Spain CC (NY)
Hampshire CC (NY)
Harrison Williams Estate (NY)
Hillcrest GC (NY)
Huntington Crescent CC East/West (NY)
Huntington CC (NY)
Intercollegiate GC (NY)
Lake Isle CC (NY)
Laurelton GC North/South (NY)
Lawrence GC (NY)
Leatherstocking CC (NY)
Leewood GC (NY)
Mahopac GC (NY)
Manhattan CC (NY)
Mayflower GC (NY)
McGregor GL (NY)
Meadowbrook C (NY)
Mechanicsville CC (NY)
Mohawk GC (NY)
Nassau CC (NY)
Northport CC (NY)
Old Westbury (NY)
Pelham CC (NY)
Pomonok CC (NY)
Queensboro Links (NY)
Queens Valley GC (NY)
Rockaway Hunting C (NY)
Rockville C (NY)
Rockwood Hall CC (NY)
Rye CC (NY)
Schenectady CC (NY)
Schuyler Meadow (NY)
Seawane C (NY)
Shelter Rock CC (NY)
Sherewogue (NY)
Stephen Clark Estate (NY)
St. Georges G&CC (NY)
St. Lawrence University (NY)
Vanderbilt Estate (NY)
Vernon Hills CC (NY)
Westechester Women's G&TC (NY)
Wheatley Hills GC (NY)
Hog Back Mountain C (NC)
Belmont Hills CC (Oh)
Charles Schwab Estate (Pa)
Elk County CC (Pa)
St. Mary’s CC (Pa)
Thomas Fortune Ryan Estate (Va)
Wheeling CC (WV)
Bahamas CC (Bahamas)
Cable Beach Hotel (Bahamas)
Belmont Hall & C (Bermuda)
Castle Inn GC (Bermuda)
Hotel Frascati GC (Bermuda)
Riddell’s Bay G&CC (Bermuda)
CC of Santiago (Cuba)

Redesign:
Hartford GC (Ct)
Bedford G&TC (NY)
Bonnie Briar CC (NY)
Engineers GC (NY)
Old Country Club (NY)
Powelton C (NY)
St. Georges Hotel GC (Bermuda)

[Chris_Blakely]

Mayflower (not the Rick Reilly course) is not coming up in the town of Tonawanda(NY)'s historical records.  I am in contact with three of the town historians and they are convinced that it is a mistake.  Can anyone make other suggestions?  Can anyone consult golfing publications from 1930, the supposed year of its building, to determine if such a course ever existed?

Ron M.

Mayflower CC is the current South Shore GC on Staten Island, NY.  It is mistakenly listed as a Tull Course.  Emmet designed it and Tull handled the field aspect of the project.

Chris

[Chris_Blakely]

I'm a little surprised Chris Blakely has not chimed in...he has been the most dedicated Emmet admirer over the years.

Tom,

I have been quite busy lately. I corrected one item on the thread that I new off the top of my head / from my research.  I have a very detailed Emmet course list and will try to check my records when I get a chance.

Thanks,

Chris

[Jim_Kennedy]

This article makes mention af a LLoyd's Neck golf club, along with an air school, tennis, cottages, etc, and of course, Emmet as the designer of the links. I've seen several similar articles that range between 1915 and 1919, but nothing after that. Sounds like the idea faded away, or perhaps it's known by another name today. That part of L.I. has quite a few courses in the same general area. 

http://tinyurl.com/266ubaz

[TEPaul]

According to one of our former contributors to this website who was a wonderful and informed participant who now chooses not to participate and who has for years been interested in Devereux Emmet, Lake Isle and Vernon Hills is one and the same golf course.

[Robert Emmons]

Jim,
The LLoyd Neck Club fell thru and was never built. Intersting though that in the 1950's the Huntington CC was negotiating to exchange the currant 144 acres for property about the same size on the Long Island sound in Lloyd Neck. This fell thru too...RHE

[Jim_Kennedy]

Thanks Robert.  I thought as much as there was such a short span of info on it.

[Jim_Kennedy]

.

[Jim_Kennedy]

TEP,

I have seen an article or two saying that VH was formerly LI., I haven't seen any articles on Vernon Hills earlier than '40ish although they could very well exist. If it's an Emmet, what was the name of the course when he built it?

[Tom MacWood]

According to one of our former contributors to this website who was a wonderful and informed participant who now chooses not to participate and who has for years been interested in Devereux Emmet, Lake Isle and Vernon Hills is one and the same golf course.

Would that be Wayne Morrison? I had no idea he was interested in Emmet...he was always so entertained by your long running joke about Emmet being gay.

[TEPaul]

"Would that be Wayne Morrison? I had no idea he was interested in Emmet...he was always so entertained by your long running joke about Emmet being gay."


Tom MacWood:

So far your track record on guessing is no better than your track record on the accuracy of your historical attribution analysis. Do you want to keep going to see if it's three strikes and you're out? Belay that, it already is;

1. HH Barker (Merion East)
2. Willie Campbell (Myopia)
3. North Shore (Robert White)

[Phil_the_Author]

From the April 24, 1898 issue of the Brooklyn Eagle:

[TEPaul]

Philip:

That article has to be completely wrong about GCGC as Tom MacWood claims Alex Findlay actually laid out the course!