Devereux Emmet Society

[mark chalfant]

I am organizing a Devereux Emmet Society to honor this underappreciated golf course architect. I will be publishing a quarterly newsletter and plans are in the works for a spring meeting to celebrate his work.

[TEPaul]

Mark:

BRAVO!

It's about time Devereux Emmet had his own society. There are numerous questions about him, his courses and his work and life and times and to date for those interested in him the only way to find things out has been to contact about 3-4 people who seemed the most familiar with various things about him.

About a year ago I thought I might get pretty lucky in that vein. One of my favorite relations is a wonderful lady whose name today is Daphne Hallowell. I always knew her maiden name was Daphne Emmet but until last year I failed to consider if there was a connection to Devereux Emmet. So last year I asked her and sure enough he was her great-uncle. She said she would contact the person in the extended family she felt was the most likely to know about him and his life to see if any family papers or information existed and she did that but unfortunately it seems to be coming up pretty empty.

Devereux Emmet and his family before, during and after him were pretty prominent however, there is no question of that.

[Adam Jessie]

Can I join? Are the dues resonable? This may be something that clubs on Long Island may be interested in. There used to be an Emmet Cup golf tournament between emmet clubs on Long island.  I know there is something set up like this between Raynor / CB Mac clubs around the country.
 

[TEPaul]

Adam:

Whatever the Devereux Emmet Society dues are I hereby guarantee that I will pay yours even if there are different levels and costs! What do you want to be---the president, the vice president, a founding member or an associate member? If you want to be the president then I will just see to it that Mark is the Czar of the Devereux Emmet Society or the Chairman of its Board of Trustees (both or either of which is essentially the Top Banana and all that sort of thing).  

And I hereby designate that the official uniform of the Devereux Emmet Society be a white suit and white shoes and a rakish hat!

[Tom MacWood]

Mark:

BRAVO!

It's about time Devereux Emmet had his own society. There are numerous questions about him, his courses and his work and life and times and to date for those interested in him the only way to find things out has been to contact about 3-4 people who seemed the most familiar with various things about him.

About a year ago I thought I might get pretty lucky in that vein. One of my favorite relations is a wonderful lady whose name today is Daphne Hallowell. I always knew her maiden name was Daphne Emmet but until last year I failed to consider if there was a connection to Devereux Emmet. So last year I asked her and sure enough he was her great-uncle. She said she would contact the person in the extended family she felt was the most likely to know about him and his life to see if any family papers or information existed and she did that but unfortunately it seems to be coming up pretty empty.

Devereux Emmet and his family before, during and after him were pretty prominent however, there is no question of that.

TEP
I had no idea you were such a fan...I recall you regularly besmirching his reputation.

[TEPaul]

Keep up the innuendo and the bile, Tom MacWood, it's definitely apparent in the last some years that's about all you're good for on this website and with everyone you communicate with on here! 

[Tom MacWood]

Mark
A very good and deserving choice. If you haven't already I would recommend talking to the founders of the other societies. It seems to me they have all taken slightly different roads.

[Tom MacWood]

Keep up the innuendo and the bile, Tom MacWood, it's definitely apparent in the last some years that's about all you're good for on this website and with everyone you communicate with on here! 

Innuendo? All anyone has to do is plug in 'emmet' and 'gay' into the search engine.

[TEPaul]

Well, Tom MacWood if you are still so overwrought about what I and a few other on here said in the past about Devereux Emmet and his "gay" architecture, I hereby state with complete seriousness and confiction that that was only meant to be a JOKE because of that white suit and hat he happened to once wear in that semi-famous photograph of him!

To some of us I suppose it just made him look to be a gay dandy and that seemed genuinely humorous to some of us at the time. Perhaps you just failed to see the humor in that or perhaps you understood that as everyone else did but that you just continue to mention it and use it to perpetuate your agenda of innuendo and bile on here.

The same was true with Morrison and Macdonald's grave but on that too with you even if it was explained about twenty times that it was just mentioned on here as a joke, with you it either goes right in one ear and right out the other or you just continue to use it and mention it to perpetuate your agenda of innuendo and bile on here.

In any case, let's just drop it shall we? Mark Chalfant has a good idea and suggestion here with this thread and there is no reason for you to ruin this thread too with your agenda driven usual innuendo and bile.

[Mike Sweeney]

Back on topic.

Clearly St George's has gotten some recent love from a crew of West Coast GCAers, yet many in NY area don't know about it. It seems like the clubs of Emmet and Emmet himself keep a lower profile. I have probably driven by Bonnie Briar a dozen times without thinking about it. Hopefully Mark can bring out some other courses. This is a list from World Golf, is it accurate?

Devereux Emmet
Courses Built

    * Belmont Hills Country Club - Private in St Clairsville
    * Blue at Congressional Country Club - Private in Bethesda
    * Blue/Green at Hartford Golf Club - Private in West Hartford
    * Bonnie Briar Country Club - Private in Larchmont
    * Capital Hills at Albany in Albany
    * Dudley Hill Golf Club in Dudley
    * East at Mohawk Golf Club - Private in Schenectady
    * Garden City Golf Club - Private in Garden City
    * Glen Head Country Club - Private in Glen Head
    * Gold at Congressional Country Club - Private in Bethesda
    * Green/Red at Hartford Golf Club - Private in West Hartford
    * Greenacres Country Club - Private in Lawrenceville
    * Hampshire Country Club - Private in Mamaroneck
    * Huntington Country Club - Private in Huntington
    * Huntington Crescent Club - Private in Huntington
    * Keney Park Golf Club - Public in Hartford
    * Mahopac Golf Club - Private in Mahopac
    * McGregor Links Country Club in Saratoga Springs
    * Mechanicville Golf Club - Semi-Private in Mechanicville
    * Nassau Country Club - Private in Glen Cove
    * Pelham Country Club - Private in Pelham Manor
    * Powelton Club, The - Private in Newburgh
    * Radisson Cable Beach & Golf Resort in Bahamas
    * Red/Blue at Hartford Golf Club - Private in West Hartford
    * Riddell's Bay Golf and Country Club in Bermuda
    * Ridgewood Country Club - Private in Danbury
    * Rockaway River Country Club - Private in Denville
    * Rockville Links Club - Private in Rockville Centre
    * Rye Golf Club - Private in Rye
    * Schuyler Meadows Club - Private in Loudonville
    * Seawane Club, The - Private in Hewlett Harbor
    * St. George's Golf & Country Club in East Setauket
    * St. Mary's Country Club - Private in Saint Marys
    * Wee Burn Country Club - Private in Darien
    * Wheeling Country Club - Private in Wheeling

[Jeff_Mingay]

Can I join? Are the dues resonable? This may be something that clubs on Long Island may be interested in. There used to be an Emmet Cup golf tournament between emmet clubs on Long island.  I know there is something set up like this between Raynor / CB Mac clubs around the country.
 

Adam,

After seeing photos of St. George's recently, I think you should be an honourary (Canadian spelling!) member. I look forward to visiting the course someday, to have a look at all those cool features in person.

Keep up the great work,

[Norbert P]

I am organizing a Devereux Emmet Society to honor this underappreciated golf course architect. I will be publishing a quarterly newsletter and plans are in the works for a spring meeting to celebrate his work.

  Please be sure to report with pictures about the resto work at Schuyler Meadows near Albany, NY.

[Cliff Hamm]

Manchester (Ct.) CC (1917 Public) - Bendelow/Emmet

[TEPaul]

Michael Sweeney:

I see you have Garden City attributed to Devereux Emmet.

Do you think that's wise? I know, I know, the history books may say that but they may be no better than a third grade paper compared to some of the amazing in-depth research on here. I should remind you that Charles Blair Macdonald moved from Chicago to New York in 1900 and immediately joined GCGC. Knowing that important information, do you think it's possible that a 1900 GCA novice such as Devereux Emmet should be given such architectural attribution for GCGC? I mean what did he know in 1900 except where to get really cool looking white suits and shoes made and how to buy hunting dogs in South Carolina and sell them for a profit in Ireland? Is it possible that New York tried to iconize their own and unfairly minimize the contributions of outsiders as Philadelphia apparently did back then?

Given the expert researchers/historians on here I wager that CBM should be ultimately given credit for designing GCGC or at least for being the driving force behind it. My precise wager would be 71% Macdonald and 23% Alexander Findlay. If you want me to go for the precise trifecta I can give that a shot too.

[Mike Sweeney]

Michael Sweeney:

I see you have Garden City attributed to Devereux Emmet.

Do you think that's wise? I know, I know, the history books may say that but they may be no better than a third grade paper compared to some of the amazing in-depth research on here. I should remind you that Charles Blair Macdonald moved from Chicago to New York in 1900 and immediately joined GCGC. Knowing that important information, do you think it's possible that a 1900 GCA novice such as Devereux Emmet should be given such architectural attribution for GCGC? I mean what did he know in 1900 except where to get really cool looking white suits and shoes made and how to buy hunting dogs in South Carolina and sell them for a profit in Ireland? Is it possible that New York tried to iconize their own and unfairly minimize the contributions of outsiders as Philadelphia apparently did back then?

Given the expert researchers/historians on here I wager that CBM should be ultimately given credit for designing GCGC or at least for being the driving force behind it. My precise wager would be 71% Macdonald and 23% Alexander Findlay. If you want me to go for the precise trifecta I can give that a shot too.

Or we could talk about one of the other 34 courses that were listed by World Golf (and not me!).   GCGC has been done to death here. I love the place, but I am more interested in a club like Wee Burn. I have never played it, it is probably less than 10 minutes from where I type this, yet I am guessing that it was/is better than the typical view of Fairfield County (CT) golf that we typically talk about here. Why does it not get more recognition, and if it was properly renovated with a sympathetic restoration style, could it run up the Golfweek Classic list like Mountain Lake once did and I expect Southampton to soon do?

More information please Mark Chalfant!

[TEPaul]

OK, Michael, good post there and pretty good deflection!  OH, and sorry for the jaded humor (or is it humour?).

Mark:

Again, great idea. How can we help?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mark,

I'm so happy to see that you are creating an Emmet society. There couldn't be a better person to take on the task.

Happy Holidays

Jim

[Tom MacWood]

Back on topic.

Clearly St George's has gotten some recent love from a crew of West Coast GCAers, yet many in NY area don't know about it. It seems like the clubs of Emmet and Emmet himself keep a lower profile. I have probably driven by Bonnie Briar a dozen times without thinking about it. Hopefully Mark can bring out some other courses. This is a list from World Golf, is it accurate?

Devereux Emmet
Courses Built

    * Belmont Hills Country Club - Private in St Clairsville
    * Blue at Congressional Country Club - Private in Bethesda
    * Blue/Green at Hartford Golf Club - Private in West Hartford
    * Bonnie Briar Country Club - Private in Larchmont
    * Capital Hills at Albany in Albany
    * Dudley Hill Golf Club in Dudley
    * East at Mohawk Golf Club - Private in Schenectady
    * Garden City Golf Club - Private in Garden City
    * Glen Head Country Club - Private in Glen Head
    * Gold at Congressional Country Club - Private in Bethesda
    * Green/Red at Hartford Golf Club - Private in West Hartford
    * Greenacres Country Club - Private in Lawrenceville
    * Hampshire Country Club - Private in Mamaroneck
    * Huntington Country Club - Private in Huntington
    * Huntington Crescent Club - Private in Huntington
    * Keney Park Golf Club - Public in Hartford
    * Mahopac Golf Club - Private in Mahopac
    * McGregor Links Country Club in Saratoga Springs
    * Mechanicville Golf Club - Semi-Private in Mechanicville
    * Nassau Country Club - Private in Glen Cove
    * Pelham Country Club - Private in Pelham Manor
    * Powelton Club, The - Private in Newburgh
    * Radisson Cable Beach & Golf Resort in Bahamas
    * Red/Blue at Hartford Golf Club - Private in West Hartford
    * Riddell's Bay Golf and Country Club in Bermuda
    * Ridgewood Country Club - Private in Danbury
    * Rockaway River Country Club - Private in Denville
    * Rockville Links Club - Private in Rockville Centre
    * Rye Golf Club - Private in Rye
    * Schuyler Meadows Club - Private in Loudonville
    * Seawane Club, The - Private in Hewlett Harbor
    * St. George's Golf & Country Club in East Setauket
    * St. Mary's Country Club - Private in Saint Marys
    * Wee Burn Country Club - Private in Darien
    * Wheeling Country Club - Private in Wheeling

It's pretty accurate but not complete. Emmet designed and redesigned a hell of a lot of courses. Trying to identifying them all will be a challenge, but it is about time we tried.

[Phil_the_Author]

Mark and Mike,

Here is another Emmett original design. The Lenox Hills Golf Club which would sold to New York State and re-opened in 1932 as the Bethpage Golf Club. Today it is known as the Green Course at Bethpage State Park.

Tilly did an extensive redesign of the course when he designed the three new ones.  The current 1st, 2nd, 3rd 17th and 18th holes on the Green Course are Tillinghast redesigns as well as a number of other minor changes to the course on various holes.

Below is from the Brookly Eagle of March 30, 1923 announcing its opening:

[Jim_Kennedy]

Edison CC in Rexford, NY is Emmet.

A few of his NLE courses:

Battle Island GC – Oswego NY -done over by RTJsr.
St Lawrence University GC, -done over by RTJsr
Hob Nob Hill- Salisbury, Ct
Iroquois Golf Club- Niskayuna, NY
Schalren Country Club- Mohawk View, NY (built for the Masonic Order)

[scott_wood]

also NOT on the list is one that has received extensive coverae on GCA:
The Leatherstocking Course @ The Otesaga Resort in Cooperstown...

it's usually a "must play" each year for those within a relatively easy (self defined) drive...

[Gary Slatter]

the course listed as Radisson Cable Beach Golf Club in Nassau, Bahamas is on the site of the original Nassau Golf Club but unfortunately has no DE holes left.   

[mark chalfant]

Good morning,

Thanks for all your ideas and encouragement. Some Emmet designs I didn't see listed are,


Leewood near Scarsdale, NY
Wheatley Hills in Nassau County,  NY
Lawrence GC  in Lawrence,  NY

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mark,
That list doesn't contain many of the courses that C&W show as Emmet.

[Kris Shreiner]

Mark,

A wonderful idea! I must confess having not had the opportunity to play a single Devereux course yet, as none are in my area and I've yet to take a buddy up on a GCGC invite kindly extended several years ago.That said, he clearly is an important architect and an interesting character. For some reason, he does seem to be overlooked given his rather extensive work and quality of it.

I've always been intrigued to see his work and learn more about him. Please keep us informed as to developments and I'd certainly like to contribute as a member.

Cheers,
Kris