[Steve_ Shaffer]

Does a golfer have a legal duty to say/yell "Fore!!!"


http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/2010/11/15/20101115new-york-man-blinded-bad-golf-shot.html

[Colin Macqueen]

Hmmm.......
There was recently a similar situation at our golf club where a surgeon received major damage to one of his eyes.  A warning shout was issued but it was NOT "Fore!" and that meant the legal result went against the chap who hit the errant shot. You can bet your bottom dollar that there is, nowadays, a lot more yells of "Fore!" all around this golf course.

Of course my playing partners have a great time when an wayward shot of mine requires this treatment.  "Forrrrrrrrrrrrre!" bellowed out in a fine Scottish brougue entertains them mightily.

Cheers Colin

[JNC Lyon]

Of course my playing partners have a great time when an wayward shot of mine requires this treatment.  "Forrrrrrrrrrrrre!" bellowed out in a fine Scottish brougue entertains them mightily.

Seriously, who doesn't LOVE yelling "fore"!

[PCCraig]

I've always favored yelling a loud awkward "fore" early and often even if the ball is anywhere close to a player...sure sometimes the ball misses by a mile but after seeing what a ball can do to a face when traveling 75+ mph it's not a pretty sight!

[Melvyn Morrow]

Fore or “FORE”, now that a good question. It goes back into the mist of golfinghistory, of times way past the legends to the early days of Gentlemen only playing the R & A Game.

For many years its was acceptable, if not encouraged  to hit the peasants with the old wooden ball about their person, it was believed to put them firmly in their place. If they were hit when it was not their fault the they should take it for one of the occasions they escapedbeinh hit. Sounds like the modern UN

Then came the feathery ball which still hurt but not to the extent of a wooden ball, more Gentlemen were playing and one could not stand back and shout,” I say,  you Sir, No Sir, You Sir, Yes Sir You, Good day Sir, My complements to you and your party. Could I ask you to stand aside as my ball is fast approaching your vicinity”. By that time the ball would have landed and causing whatever havoc it sought.


So an economy word was suggested that would not confuse other golfers just the general public and most certainly the peasants again. Well come on guys no TV in those days our Gentry had to obtain their amusement from somewhere and hitting peasant has been around longer that Golf.

So the word FORE was introduced in to the world of Golf.

It is an abbreviation of a Gentleman warning from the 17trh century which when translated into English goes something like this ,” I say,  you Sir, No Sir, You Sir, Yes Sir You, Good day Sir, My complements to you and your party. Could I ask you to stand aside as my ball is fast approaching your vicinity”

So it was incorporated into the game to allow the Gentry to keep hitting the peasants, thus keep their customs and traditions alive for another century or two.

Melvyn

PS OK you are right its BS but how many believed me ??

[Terry Lavin]

Morally, yes.  Ethically, surely.  Legally, probably not.

[Lester George]

I was an expert witness for the defendant in the following case.

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/woman-struck-golf-ball-files-suit,-alleging-design-flaw-beach-course

There were many facets to the trial.  Part of the reason the defendant won was that someone yelled "fore" but the plantiff claimed she did nopt know what it meant.  Interesting case becuase it would have had serious implications on design and architects. 

Lester

[Mark McKeever]

Morally, yes.  Ethically, surely.  Legally, probably not.

Agreed Terry.

I say it out of courtesy for the other players.

Mark

[Jeff_Brauer]

I am not really sure about a legal duty to yell fore. If yelled, it would seem it should be yelled before a shot is hit rather than after a shot is hit, because the ball flies too fast to really help then.

I also wonder if they argue that yelling fore is customary, if they can find someone to testify that it is also customary (and common sense) to never stand ahead of another player while he plays?  Not that we all don't do it, given carts and the desire to play ready golf.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

To answer my question, it depends on where(what state) the incident happened. Here's the NY analysis:


So, yes, a golfer should still yell "fore" when he hits an errant shot and if he does not he may be found liable in court if his shot injures another golfer when the plaintiff:

1.is not in the line of sight,
2.has gone ahead of the area where the golfer's ball lies who is furthest from the hole, or
3.otherwise acts without regard for his own safety.

In this case, the lower court relied on  the "assumption of the risk" doctrine.


http://www.newyorkinjurycasesblog.com/2009/05/articles/eye-and-vision-injuries/newest-ruling-in-golf-course-cases-plaintiff-hit-in-eye-by-errant-shot-loses-vision-and-case/

[Richard Choi]

If you don't want to damage someone's eyes, isn't yelling "fore" the last thing you want to do?

I mean, every time someone yells "fore" the first thing everybody does is to look up.

[Rick Shefchik]

A similar situation happened to me last week -- a guy in my foursome was hitting a greenside bunker shot while I was walking my bag around to the opposite side of the green. He hit a hosel rocket about head-high, right at me. He tried to warn me, yelling something like, "Watch out!", but before I had a chance to duck, I turned my head just in time to see the ball whiz under my chin. No contact was made, but it would have done some damage.

It shook me up, but I considered it my own fault for not stopping to watch the guy's sand shot. I was potentially in his range, even though I was a good 40 feet to the right of his target. I usually warn the others in my group whenever I have a funky lie in a greenside bunker. I should have followed my own advice and paid attention. The fact that my playing companion tried to warn me did me no good -- it happened too fast. Not every injury from an errant shot is forseeable or preventable, but this one would have been -- by me.

[William_G]

Only idiots.  The first thing I do it cover up. 

+1

[Doug Wright]

A similar situation happened to me last week -- a guy in my foursome was hitting a greenside bunker shot while I was walking my bag around to the opposite side of the green. He hit a hosel rocket about head-high, right at me. He tried to warn me, yelling something like, "Watch out!", but before I had a chance to duck, I turned my head just in time to see the ball whiz under my chin. No contact was made, but it would have done some damage.

It shook me up, but I considered it my own fault for not stopping to watch the guy's sand shot. I was potentially in his range, even though I was a good 40 feet to the right of his target. I usually warn the others in my group whenever I have a funky lie in a greenside bunker. I should have followed my own advice and paid attention. The fact that my playing companion tried to warn me did me no good -- it happened too fast. Not every injury from an errant shot is forseeable or preventable, but this one would have been -- by me.

Paging Dan Kelly. Didn't he get beaned by a shot a couple years back?

[Rick Shefchik]

Yes, he did. I wasn't with him then, and he wasn't playing with me during the aforementioned incident. I'll let Dan describe it if he cares to, but as I recall, he was hit by a ball from an adjacent hole, by a golfer who couldn't see him.

[Dan Kelly]

Paging Dan Kelly. Didn't he get beaned by a shot a couple years back?

Hey, Doug --

A little birdie told me -- in a loud, low-pitched voice -- that my testimony had been called for. Here's my story:

I was on the 5th hole at Braemar Golf Course, a municipal course in Edina, Minnesota. The 5th is a par-4 dogleg-left -- as is the adjacent (to the left) par-4 14th hole. The tee of the 5th is perhaps 75 yards forward of the 14th tee; the greens are similarly separated.

It was Memorial Day in 2009. I had driven into the left rough on 5 -- into a grove of leafed-out deciduous trees. (There might be some conifers in there, too. I think there are.) My path to the green was hopelessly (even for a determined optimist) blocked. I pulled out a long-iron and hit a low punch out to the fairway ... and JUST as I finished my swing, I got CONKED on the back-left top of my head. I thought my clubhead had flown off and hit me. From knockdown punch to knockout punch! But no, I got up before the mandatory eight-count.

My partners reported that the impact made a fearful noise. I couldn't, right then, hear much of any noise. I could hear almost nothing -- but I could feel a huge lump rising quickly.

I thought I'd gone deaf. Spooky feeling.

My cousin -- one of my playing partners that day -- YELLED at me to tell me what had happened: A woman on the adjacent 14th had sliced her second shot (we presume; it was not, at any rate, her tee shot) into the trees. She certainly could not have seen me in among those trees -- but her ball found me, that's for sure.

She did not yell "Fore!"

I lost some hearing, permanently (though some of what I lost has returned). I can no longer hear the very-high-pitched noise of the card reader that guards the entrance to our building -- a sound that was very clear to me every day until the beaning. I have a lot of difficulty hearing in places like ... parties, in big spaces, where lots of sound is bouncing around; and in restaurants that make no effort to muffle the sound. And even as I type this, I am aware of a high-pitched buzzing in my ear that I never had -- or at least was never aware of -- before the incident. Tinnitus, they call it. Some days, it's a gentle squeal; others, it sounds like the cicadas in suburban Chicago.

Those trees were planted, I was told, to PROTECT golfers on 5 from shots on 14 -- and vice versa. Of course, they had quite the opposite effect: The woman on 14 couldn't see me, because of the trees, and therefore didn't yell "Fore!," and I couldn't see her, because of the trees, to pay attention to her shot (as I ALWAYS try to do whenever any golfer is in any position to hit me) and take cover as necessary.

I'm not the litigious type, so I didn't serious consider my legal options -- but I gave some passing thought to doing so, with the hope that a lawsuit would help to discourage the planting of Stupid Trees.

My advice: Yell "FORE" -- lustily, in your loudest possible voice -- whenever you hit a ball toward any part of the golf course that you can't see, whether or not you think someone might be there. If you needlessly scare a few people not in harm's way ... c'est le golf!

Dan

[J Sadowsky]

This old golf joke comes to mind:

A foursome was in the middle of a round when a man comes up to them and hands them a card that read "I am a deaf mute. May I play through, please?"

The foursome communicated that nobody plays through their foursome, and that his handicap or condition did not give him such a right.  The foursome continued the hole, teeing off.

Later, just as one of the foursome was about to putt, a golf ball, laying him out cold. When the other three looked back, they saw the deaf mute jumping up and down frantically, holding up 4 fingers.

[Steve Wilson]

My understanding is that the custom of crying "Fore" was intended as a warning prior to striking the ball.  It originated from playing on common ground that was being used by others than those playing golf.  As much as anything else it was to inform non-golfers that golf is being played here.   Or if you want to go all Ratso Rizzoish, "Hey, I'm playing golf here."

There have occasions when I've want to warn people who are for one reason (searching for balls usually) or another close enough to the line of play that a stray shot would endanger them.  "Fore" is no good because it alarms people and has them covering up.  "Heads up" is okay but doesn't seem to carry like a full throated "FOOOOORRRRRE."

None of this has any bearing on the question that is title of this thread, and I think Terry Lavin's response pretty well covers it. 

Curiously I remember buying golfer's insurance for 50 P the first time I played Royal Dornoch.  And I'm not certain if that was to protect me or the club or both for possible damage to people or property.  That was 1997 and in subsequent years no mention of insurance was made.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's a NJ case:

http://www.sportslawnews.com/archive/Court%20Rulings/SchickFerolito.htm

[Mark Smolens]

That's twice in this thread someone has said that "Fore" is to be yelled prior to striking the ball. How does that work? Before every shot I'm supposed to yell Fore? Seems to me that courses would get pretty loud pretty quickly if that was the system. I yell if I hit a shot I think has a chance to be near someone on the course (which, alas, happens far too often), but I'm just not clear as to how that can possibly occur before I take a swing. . .

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mark,

In my view, if you take a look and others, including those in your group may have wandered somewhere ahead of you, then you yell "Fore" to let them know a stroke is coming.  No need to yell every time, just when circumstances dictate.

Shiv,

I doubt any legal system would exempt willfully reckless behavior, like shooting at someone (or over a driving range fence to a road) under the assumption of risk doctrine.  I think you have the right to assume that others will act reasonably.  That would probably include striking a ball out of anger in either of the cases you describe, but there would be a lot of middle ground between unforeseeable, accidental and reckless.  Hence, the backlogs in our court system.....

[Richard Phinney]

Originally fore was yelled before a golf shot. 

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