Bad taste on 17 mile drive but in America should we all not have

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

 our own home putttng greens. I think all  of us who have ever driven down 17 mile drive excited about getting a peek of a few holes at Cypress know this house. It is adjacient to Cypress Pointe Club closest to the 13th green. In 1985 the homeowner built the often talked about but never admired 3 hole course in his front yard. A Mr. Feduniak bought the house including said holes for a mere 13 million in 2000. Hmmm name sounds like it could be a key character in Caddie Shack. No less than 10 caddies have assured me they will never never become members of Cypress. It seems the holes are in an area that must be maintained in native plants. The litigationstarted in 2002 has taken it course and all the while the homeowner has maintained his mini Cypress. The County Commission has won and is pressing for fines penalties etc. Oddly the house is now up for sale. If any of you desire it please note you will not have your own practice holes.

[Carl Nichols]

i've reread this a couple of times and i can't figure out what your point is.

[Bill_McBride]

Money and taste do not necessarily go hand in hand!

[Mike Hendren]

i've reread this a couple of times and i can't figure out what your point is.

Carl, you are aware that Tiger is from Louisiana?  Bless his heart.

Mike

[Bill_McBride]

i've reread this a couple of times and i can't figure out what your point is.

Carl, you are aware that Tiger is from Louisiana?  Bless his heart.

Mike

He could have been from Alabama or Mississippi.

[Sam Morrow]

Tiger is upset that he can't bitch about Les today.

[Ronald Montesano]

Doth he inquire as to Cypress Point, Poynte, Pointe, Poynt or some other muni in the Carmel area?

[Lou_Duran]

i've reread this a couple of times and i can't figure out what your point is.

First of all, since when does anyone in the august group need to make a point in order to post?

I know the house Mr. Bernhardt refers to and a bit of the story behind it, so I thank him for the update.

Though I know that John would not be making this point- we swing from very opposite sides of the ball- if there is one that might be taken from his post, it is that the word "own" means an entirely different thing today than it did 80 years ago.  We are only the masters of our property subject to the pleasure of any number of higher authorities.

We lament the inelegant routing of our modern golf courses, the high cost of building and maintaining them, the rampant use of the golf cart, etc.   But try building a Cypress Point under today's regulatory environment.  Just visit Spanish Bay up the road and ask the superintendent about the concessions they have to make to the detriment of the course and the club's guests just to operate.  Why are the "environmentally sensitive areas" so close to the playing corridors resulting in lost balls and long rounds?  Answer: it takes months and treasure to petition the higher authorities to be able to cut these back a couple of feet with no reasonable assurance of obtaining a fair hearing.  And what is so "sensitive" about common native grasses covering thousands of acres in the area anyways?   Answer: said authorities deem them so.

Now some of you might be asking, about the "needs" and desires of other stakeholders in the area.  Why should a  privately owned estate be able to have three short holes within its boundaries?  Doesn't it detract from the experience of those forking over the $10 (or whatever it is today) to motor along the 17-mile Drive?  Really, aren't there enough golf holes already blighting this most beautiful stretch of land on the sea?  How about the rights of all other area homeowners?  Shouldn't they be able to have a voice in what is on an individual's property?  Certainly I wouldn't want to have a trailer park or strip club next to my multi-million dollar dream home.

But say that I am tired of the toilet in my bathroom and I want to get one of those a bit more comfortable for my considerable posterior.  I "own" my house so go for it, right?  Yes, but only after I file a permit, pay all the necessary fees, submit detailed plans, and get permission from those higher authorities.

Hyperbole to make a point?   I have it from someone with unimpeachable credentials living in the Monterey area who wanted to change a fixture is his guest bathroom, but shelved the idea when he learned of the procedure I described from his contractor.  Personally, I tried to add a carport to my rear entry garage in Texas, had permission from all surrounding property owners, but my permit was put on hold until I could provide extensive plans certified by specifically credentialled engineers from a list of a few provided by the city (the engineering certification of the plans from my contractor were of an "unapproved" type) which would have cost as much as the cartport itself.

The point?  Might it be the question: Who really is the master of his castle today?

[JohnV]

Lou,

At the risk of starting another political thread, the California Coastal Commission was established via a ballot initiative in 1972.  In other words, the people of the state of California believe that protecting the coast and areas next to it are important enough to overrule some private property rights.  This is another one of those items where one side likes the concept of the will of the people ruling and the other side doesn't.

The person who built owns the house and built the greens, obviously feels that his money and property rights trump that.

There is also the Del Monte Forest Property Owners Association, which is a collection of the owners in the forest.  This is very much like a condominium association that has some say over what you can and can't do with your property.

Buying a place near the coast or in the forest brings limitations.  The owner of this property feels he is above the law in this regard.

[Lou_Duran]

Well-stated John.  I am somewhat aware of the progression of limited property rights in CA and other parts of the country.  I suspect that the owner of the subject estate knew of those limitations and chose to go forward.  Life is about choices in most cases and I suppose that he can either fight it, pay the fines, remove the offending violations, and/or move.    As I think you would agree, choices typically have consequences.  I would only offer that the presence of these greens are the least of the challenges facing the good people of the great state of CA.   BTW, nearly all things in the world we live in involve politics, and particularly so as they relate to golf today.  How we address them (or not) has a major impact on any number of levels.

[Carl Nichols]

i've reread this a couple of times and i can't figure out what your point is.

First of all, since when does anyone in the august group need to make a point in order to post?

Lou:
Every post has a point.  Here, it could've been to provide an update, to complain about a claimed eyesore, to lament the failiure of the CCC to have done anything about the eyesore, to lament the slow erosion of private property, or something else.  I just couldn't tell which of these (or something else) Tiger was getting at. 

[Robert Kimball]

For a visual . . . the property in question, relation to the 13th green, and the native area.

[Lou_Duran]

Carl,

John's post provided information- that a final decision had been made on an matter that many of us had some familiarity with.  As with many posts, it can start with the limited objective of just conveying information and perhaps lead to a deeper, thoughtful discussion of the underlying issues.

Just like everyone else, I have my preferences.  I understand the concept of the commons and the "slippery slope" argument relatively well.  This particular property did not jar my sensitivities, and even if it did, if it was up to me, I would not subordinate that property owner's preferences with my own.  

[Bill_McBride]

It's hard to be distracted by anything when you're playing that 13th hole at Cypress Point!

[George Pazin]

Just guessing, as the pic is an overhead not a ground view shot, but the wall looks more objectionable to me than the golf holes.

Zoning laws/commissions are one of those nearly impossible things to come to any sort of reasonable compromise on - the desire of even only a few to really go overboard and affect everyone else's values/lives/whatever pretty much necessitates their existence...but it's pretty tough to find one that does not dramatically overstep its authority on a regular basis.

[Bob_Huntley]

I think that before anyone gets a hiisy fit about this, a few pertinent facts should be known.

The current owner of the property bought it fair and square from the the man who built the house some 15 to 20 years ago. The current owner has been in it for probably less than six or seven years.The original owner built the greens in violation of the CC's rules and regulation.
 
The Coastal Commission came to the new owner some fourteen years after the house and grounds were created and told him to remove the greens and plant native grasses. The new owner appealed to the courts and a local judge asked the CC's lawyer that  if they were so diligent in upholding the law, why wait fourteen years to discover the problem when the house was such a prominent feature of the Seventeen Mile Drive. He found for the owner. I understand that the stuggle continues.

John Van der Bought speaks of the Coastal Commission as though it has the approval of the California Electorate, I can assure you that if the vote was taken today it would lose in a landslide. Originally it was to prevent the bastardization of beach areas as can be seen in Malibu; then it encroached  inland for a thousand feet. Another facet of the CC's clout was something called the Influence Zone, this allowed their powers to reach inland and to include the peaks of the coastal mountain ranges to come under their purview.

As Lou Duran pointed out, we have little say in some of the weirder decisions of this beaurocracy.


Bob

[Robert Kimball]

One more from the California Costal Records Project website (pretty cool site, by the way).

[Jeff Taylor]

They could take the road out. Wouldn't that satisfy the CC's appetite? After all, it is closer to the beach than the ground in question.

[Matthew Petersen]

I think the putting green in the yard near the fourth tee looks much nicer for short game practice, anyway.

[JNC Lyon]

So, how soon until the State of California seizes Cypress Point and Pebble Beach and turns them into protected areas? I am all for environmental protection, but when does it cross the line?

[Sean Leary]

Though I know that John would not be making this point- we swing from very opposite sides of the ball-

[/quote]

Not that there is anything wrong with that......

[Lou_Duran]

Though I know that John would not be making this point- we swing from very opposite sides of the ball-

Not that there is anything wrong with that......
[/quote]

To borrow from Mr. Nichols, and your point is?

It's been awhile since I've played with Tiger, but we've typically gotten on reasonably well.  I just have to stand well back, provide plenty of latitude, and take into consideration that though we share the physical space, we are often not playing the same course, metaphorically speaking.  As creatures of our upbringing and ingrained habits, it is very difficult to address the ball from the "wrong" side.  However, on occasion, it is edifying and not all that unpleasant.  You might try it sometime yourself. 

[Bill_McBride]

Though I know that John would not be making this point- we swing from very opposite sides of the ball-

Not that there is anything wrong with that......

To borrow from Mr. Nichols, and your point is?

It's been awhile since I've played with Tiger, but we've typically gotten on reasonably well.  I just have to stand well back, provide plenty of latitude, and take into consideration that though we share the physical space, we are often not playing the same course, metaphorically speaking.  As creatures of our upbringing and ingrained habits, it is very difficult to address the ball from the "wrong" side.  However, on occasion, it is edifying and not all that unpleasant.  You might try it sometime yourself. 
[/quote]

And I've always enjoyed playing with you as well, Lou.    It's the golf that binds us all together!

[Sean Leary]

Though I know that John would not be making this point- we swing from very opposite sides of the ball-

Not that there is anything wrong with that......

To borrow from Mr. Nichols, and your point is?

It's been awhile since I've played with Tiger, but we've typically gotten on reasonably well.  I just have to stand well back, provide plenty of latitude, and take into consideration that though we share the physical space, we are often not playing the same course, metaphorically speaking.  As creatures of our upbringing and ingrained habits, it is very difficult to address the ball from the "wrong" side.  However, on occasion, it is edifying and not all that unpleasant.  You might try it sometime yourself. 
[/quote]

Lou,

Obviously I had an ill fated attempt at humor regarding something totally different from how you read it. Never mind, and I hope that you are well.

[Lou_Duran]

Sean,

Though I still don't get where you were going with your comment, I knew it was an attempt at humor.  And you are right, this is a very difficult medium sometimes to convey information and throw an occasional elbow lightly.

Bill McBride,

Have we played?  If golf is what binds us, we're indeed in a heap of trouble!

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