Where can a golf club...

[Bill_McBride]

PY,

Call me and I can give you some ideas.  I have used a couple from Charleston, I have purchased them from golf-flog but mostly we buy the wicker, soak it and weave from scratch our own baskets. We have many members and guests for whom we have made small putting green sized baskets for their home, office or backyard green.

The history of wicker baskets as well as all sorts of adornments that used to occupy the tops of flagsticks is quite interesting and I considered a lot of different ideas.  Since our baskets are homemade each is unique and they are quite different from Merion.  As someone mentioned Merion was not the first to use baskets they are just the most famous

Anyway if I finish my dinner in time I'll give one copycat's perspective of what I was thinking!

404-312-8284

Were those basket weavers all graduates of the UGA basket weaving program?   

(I can kid like that, my dad was a member of the Class of 1928 at Georgia Tech!     )

[Chris Cupit]

Lucas Walters, Asst. Superintendent, head basket weaver and Penn State graduate

His assistant weaver is a Bulldog though . After six years in Athens he loves being able to express his arts and crafts inner self!

[Bill_McBride]

Lucas Walters, Asst. Superintendent, head basket weaver and Penn State graduate

His assistant weaver is a Bulldog though . After six years in Athens he loves being able to express his arts and crafts inner self!

I need to get up there for lunch and some golf!   

[Chris Cupit]

This weekend is going to be great. Give me a shout and come play. Cavaliers preferred but Jackets are welcome!  I even let the dawgs play as long as they are not holding up play.

[John Kavanaugh]

Longaberger has flags, no picnic baskets, on their sticks.

"come up with something new" has to be the lamest cop-out I've read today on this site.  Who are you to decry what a club wishes to do?  Since when is the adornment at the top of the stick anyone's business or the topic of a beauty contest?  Next thing you know, we'll debate pastels versus crayola colors for flags, followed by barber-shop tim on the flagstick.

This thread should have been restricted to those willing to help; those with venom in their typing fingers and thumbs should wander off into the swamps.

The fact that The Madison Club uses wicker baskets supports those who question the practice of instituting a classic window dressing on a modern course.  It is not only our business to speak out against poor taste it is our responsibility to embrace the fact that we can.

[Mac Plumart]

I would fully support Longaberger using picnic baskets on a stick.  I would fill them with snacks and water and get rid of cart girls as well.  This will save money for the club as staff can be cut back.  So not only will it be a VERY attractive flag stick, but it will be a money maker/saver as well!

FYI...if any of you club owners like this idea, I have a million more on how to revolutionize the industry.  My services are available for a "small" fee.  Just send me an IM. 

[Lester George]

The Old White at the Greenbrier used wicker baskets early on.  Probably not after 1920.

Lester

[Chris Cupit]

Longaberger has flags, no picnic baskets, on their sticks.

"come up with something new" has to be the lamest cop-out I've read today on this site.  Who are you to decry what a club wishes to do?  Since when is the adornment at the top of the stick anyone's business or the topic of a beauty contest?  Next thing you know, we'll debate pastels versus crayola colors for flags, followed by barber-shop tim on the flagstick.

This thread should have been restricted to those willing to help; those with venom in their typing fingers and thumbs should wander off into the swamps.

The fact that The Madison Club uses wicker baskets supports those who question the practice of instituting a classic window dressing on a modern course.  It is not only our business to speak out against poor taste it is our responsibility to embrace the fact that we can.

OK, since I may be the object of some Barney venom , let me ask our arbiter of good taste this:  What is more pretentious or in bad taste--building a course with a theme of looking and feeling "old", with large undulating greens, scruffy bunkers, brown sand, large native areas and trying to compliment it with some home made baskets in deference to multiple clubs that have used something different than flags OR belonging to a club that has the word "National" added on the end of it

I've travelled up and had a great time playing with you in the heartland so come down to Atlanta and see for yourself if my homemade baskets "fit" with my course and the feel of my club.  I think they look pretty cool and I want to convince you.  Afterwards we can drive down the interstates and back roads of GA and you can point out the artistry of black top to me  

[Tom_Doak]

Chris,

To be fair, John didn't criticize your baskets, he criticized The Madison Club.

Do you think those guys have the same reverence for golf history that you do, or that it is possible they are just pandering to history and trying a bit too hard to be special?  And I'm not trying to pick on that specific course, which I've never seen; I'm just saying we all know that some courses in the past few years were more about sales than tradition. 

Incidentally, in old pictures I can remember seeing all kinds of weird standards on courses. The one that comes to mind right now was a large, oval but flat metal plate at the top of the flagstick, with the number of the hole on it ... I can't remember what course that was.

[Chris Cupit]

Chris,

To be fair, John didn't criticize your baskets, he criticized The Madison Club.

Do you think those guys have the same reverence for golf history that you do, or that it is possible they are just pandering to history and trying a bit too hard to be special?  And I'm not trying to pick on that specific course, which I've never seen; I'm just saying we all know that some courses in the past few years were more about sales than tradition. 

Incidentally, in old pictures I can remember seeing all kinds of weird standards on courses. The one that comes to mind right now was a large, oval but flat metal plate at the top of the flagstick, with the number of the hole on it ... I can't remember what course that was.

I agree and did put "may" in my response but I admit that mainly I was trying to tweak Barney a bit as we really did enjoy (I know I did) a great day of golf together in Indiana and I think John actually would like my jest. 

When I was looking for something to put on top of my flagsticks, like you, I discovered that all types of things identified and highlighted the hole location.  Flagsticks of all shapes and sizes which were then all adorned with flags of all shapes and sizes (my first idea was a very unusual shape almost like a long horozontal strip but in my windless area I realized a longer, skinnier flag would most likely be even less visible as the extra weight would make it hang limp.

I saw two dimensional "panels" that looked kind cool but then worried that a group could replace the flagstick and have the adornment turned at an almost invisible angle for the following group.  I really wanted something, anything else other than a Merion basket but the more I read up I discovered that many clubs around the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century used baskets again of all types, shapes, sizes and colors.

I understand the eye rolling that occurs (and rightfully so at times) when "gadgets or gimmicks" are used as a result of some moment of marketing "brilliance" versus any serious or thoughtful attempt to improve or enhance a golfer's round of golf.  In my windless area not only do the baskets look nice they are much more visible for golfers of all levels particularly when the flag was simply hanging straight down. 

Oh, and lastly, for traditionalists like Melvyn MH, the baskets are much easier to hit with one's laser finder

[Sean Leary]

No problems John... that was simply you being you! A loveable pain in the ass like the rest of us! I took no offense as you didn't with my reply.

Yes Steve, that is correct... You'll see a photograph of one in use there on the Duel hole in the next issue of Tillinghast Illustrated which is due out TOMORROW! Trust me, no one who loves the history of golf course architecture will want to miss this one...

Phil,

Is the Tillinghast Illustrated image available yet on line? Any other info about SFGC's history available for public consumption yet?

[Kevin_Reilly]

No problems John... that was simply you being you! A loveable pain in the ass like the rest of us! I took no offense as you didn't with my reply.

Yes Steve, that is correct... You'll see a photograph of one in use there on the Duel hole in the next issue of Tillinghast Illustrated which is due out TOMORROW! Trust me, no one who loves the history of golf course architecture will want to miss this one...

Phil,

Is the Tillinghast Illustrated image available yet on line? Any other info about SFGC's history available for public consumption yet?

I wonder if it is different than the one I posted above.  I can't remember where I got that picture a couple of years ago.

[Phil_the_Author]

Kevin,

Yes, that is one of the images where the basket can be seen that is part of the comprehensive Course Evolution History that was recently done for the Club. In fact I misspoke in that it is NOT part of the coming Tillinghast Illustrated article. My apologies and I'm glad that you posted it.

It was taken in 1927 and the four people playing are Roger Lapham, George Nickel, Vincent Whitney and world heavyweight boxing champion Gene Tunney.

[Peter Ferlicca]

Just for an update on the Madison Club having wicker baskets, they must have got rid of them this year, because I asked someone who played their week ago and asked about the baskets and he said there were flags out there now.  I am guessing the Madison Club figured wicker baskets weren’t really their niche.   They are more known for all their ridiculous comfort stations.

[John Kavanaugh]

Chris,

First of all, Tom Doak coming to my defense left me flattered and speechless.  You know you are my bud, hell I asked you to play in my member guest after, not before, I had bled you for access, the truest sign of GCA friendship.

I think it is important to look at the demographic where you operate a course.  Atlanta has always amazed me in how they provide the public with great sports teams that can not sell tickets.  You have managed to convince those same people to pay you to play at your course.  Who am I to question your success in that environment.  That being said, good taste does not butter the bread.

I do believe that we as men, perhaps not as modern men, but men nonetheless have a responsibility to speak out against poor taste when practiced by our friends.  Let's say for example I love the sound of a set of studio Dr. Dre Beats head phones and decide to wear a pair to the range for practice.  If I were to wear them around my neck in either the grill room or pro shop and did not get taken down several notches I would either have no friends or friends not worth having.  On the other hand, if I owned a range in the inner city and allowed the use of all the latest models with the purchase of a season pass I would be a genius.

Baskets or Beats, get the rubes inside the tent and you have won the battle.  Congrats on your success. 

[Sean_A]

To be a bit more on the pedantic side of the issue, I love wicker baskets, but if I am gonna be true to low input in terms of yardage markers on courses, then I must then prefer flags to help indicate wind conditions.  Do any clubs that use baskets hold this sort of debate about what should and shouldn't appropriate in terms of info provided?

Ciao