Groundbreaking/Epic/Infamous Greens

[Mac Plumart]

So, I have a round of golf and a post round chat with some GCA'ers last night.  We talk golf and architecture for a good bit of time.  Sitwell Park comes up.  I had never heard of it.  I check out "The Spirit of St. Andrews" to see a picture of that green.  But I can't really get a feel for it.  Can anyone help me find some pictures or write ups on the green in question?

Also, are they any other greens that a student of golf course architecture need to know about, play, and/or study?

I can think of a few, specifically template greens and holes, but what specific courses and greens do y'all think are worthy of discussion and study?

EDIT...

OH SNAP!!!!  I found this picture of Sitwell Park's infamous green on an older thread.  WOW!!!!



EDIT part II...

My burst.  I had originally thought it was Stillwell Park and not Sitwell Park.  So my searches came up with very little.  However, Sitwell searches come up with a bunlde of information.  Nevertheless, I'd love to hear about other amazing greens. 

[Bart Bradley]

Mac:

All of them at TOC.

Bart

[Wade Schueneman]

I need to get you a picture of the 14th green at Lane Creek.

Till then, you should go to the Barnbougle Dunes website and check out the Sitwell green at #13.

[RSLivingston_III]

Was it Riviera that had the green with the bunker in the middle of it?

[Brock Peyer]

I am trying to think of 14 at Lane Creek?

[Chris Cupit]

Mac,

I understand people hated that green but I'll admit that while it is extreme I think it would be a fun hole. As long as the approach was very short I think if the separate plateaus were large enough it would be fine.  Wasn't the hole a short (125 or so yard) par three?  If so you may face a shot from 115-140 it appears the sections are large enough to be "fair".  I wish it were still around to see today.

Obviously modern green speeds would make it unplayable but were I king for a day I would decree "crazy" but much slower greens for all
OK, maybe I would just decree wild and crazy in some limited quantity!

[Adam Russell]

That sneaky Mike Young...copying the ODG's at a little public course and not tellin' anyone.   I wish I had a picture of it to post as its as hard of a green to hit from 100 yds. as I've ever seen - not to mention trying to drive it. I love that course.

[JC Jones]

Seems to me that some of the most epic and infamous greens are those where no ground was broken....

[V. Kmetz]

Mac,

good to exchange with you again...

I have loved and thought of the picture often when thumbing through my copy of "The Spirit..."

I myself have never seen a green approach THAT scale of wonder, but I think the greatest cluster of greens that are "of that aesthetic" is at Yale...specifically the 1st 8th 9th (their Biarritz), 12th...and to a slightly smaller degree the 2nd (their Cape) and 13th (their Redan).

otherwise, on THAT scale, i can only think of the 14th at Augusta National, perhaps their 6th with that kind of monumental elevation change over a large green surface.

cheers

vk

[Norbert P]

The Par 3 Gibraltar in Moortown, Scotland.  Mackenzie 1907.

[Andrew Mitchell]

The Par 3 Gibraltar in Moortown, Scotland.  Mackenzie 1907.

Slag
As a proud Yorkshireman I'm mortally offended that you have moved Moortown's Gibraltar hole from Leeds in Yorkshire England to Scotland.

 

[Mark Pearce]

Andrew, as an Englishman I'm offended.  As a Yorkshireman you must be spitting......

[Mac Plumart]

Wade...Is it the Lane Creek in Athens?  I went to their website and saw that green.  If that is it, it looks pretty cool!

Ralph...I think you are correct.  I need to get out to Riviera and see that whole course.  It looks amazing!!

Adam...What Mike Young course are you talking about?  I'd love to check it out.

VK...Yale.  Great call!! 

Slag, Andrew, and Mark...is Moortown still like that?  Looks great.

And JC...spot on.  Spot on!!!

I was thinking about greens today (like most days  ) and I was thinking of greens that just stunned me.

-Coming around that corner at NGLA on the first hole and walking up to my putt.  Holy Cow!!!  That set the tone for the hole day.  What a great green.

Ballyneal's greens...7, 8, and 12.  Perhaps stunned isn't the right word on those!!!   

I LOVED Maidstone 6.  But maybe I am in the minority.

Sebonack 2.  Are you friggin' kidding me?  Truly amazing work!!!

Longshadow 17!!!  Sublime!!!



17 Pete Dye Golf Club!!!



18 at Inverness, with Death Valley off the the right and the UNREAL slant of the green.  Oh, the horror.  THE HORROR!!!


Others that maybe should be included for the Infamous part...

17 at TPC Sawgrass, the movable green at Coure d'Alene (I don't think I spelled that correctly), 17 at Secession.

And of course, the greatest Cape EVER!!!



Longaberger BABY!!!  And yes, I am a sicko who likes that hole!!

[Adam Russell]

Mac,

Lane Creek is a course about 10 miles off 441 in Oconee County. Mike Young designed it, and while it has had a few tweaks from the original design, it crams about as much fun as you can have into $22 and a cart. I'm biased though - I've made the drive to Athens to play it since I was in middle school (I'm 26 now). The condition of the course is amazing for the budget. It was beating Reynolds Plantation by a wide margin a year ago. Just a great flow to the holes, even though I think the original routing and holes were better than some of the new holes (old #3 and #5). Just a great public club.

[Bruce Wellmon]

The first at Yeaman's and there were 2 "horseshoe" greens there if I recall.

Coolest green I have played recently is Kris Spence's #12 at Myers Park. It has 3 spines coming from on side. Sorry to say I didn't have a camera. (Help me out Kris.)

[BCrosby]

Let me cast another vote for Lane Creek. It's the protoype hidden gem.

Great design, low cost and.... hidden.


Bob

 

[Dave McCollum]

You ought to check out the greens at Kidd’s Tetherow.  I didn’t play them, but looked at them all and thought that they were a bit over the top.  Maybe Rob Rigg or some of the Portland guys might like to comment.  I can post some pictures when I have more time.  If DMK felt he was overly criticized for not putting move contour into his greens at Bandon, Tetherow is certainly a dramatic response.

[Doug Spets]

Hole numbers 9 and 12 at Harbour Town.  Both tiny...and with the potential of having to chip the ball to the cup from on the green.

[Sean_A]

Whats the world come to when it takes the 18th wing nut to mention North Beriwck's 16th?  Disgusting.



Ciao

[JNC Lyon]

Sean, How about the greens at 13 and 15? I would say those are pretty special and original as well.  More reasons why North Berwick is my favorite course.

Some other picks for me:

FOXY--The ultimate bunkerless hole.  Is there another green even remotely like this one in the world?  I think it's funny that this green is so rarely copied.
13 at Prestwick--second in command to Foxy.  Some of the most fun I've ever had was hacking my way up the right rough, only to hit a pitch and run fourth shot stiff for a bogey.
4 at Woking--very subtle, unlike many of the greens at Woking.  This green is lay of the land, and its contour and angle work perfectly with the rest of the hole.  The centerline bunkers off the tee would be worth nothing without this green.
13 at Woking--as wild as the fourth green is subtle, this green epitomizes everything I love about Woking.
16 at Deal--I would pick 3, 6, 12, and 17 as well.  However, 16 is likely the most legendary, and it dictates every shot the player hits going back to the tee.  Again, why isn't this green copied more as a way to defend a short par five?
5 at Merion--shows how scary lay-of-the-land greens can be.
1 at Yeamans Hall--the ultimate Raynor green for me, this controversial green is as dramatic as it is fun.

[Dave McCollum]

I’m not too familiar with uploading pics, but hopefully here are a few from Tetherow.  All of the greens have a lot of movement, but I picked three greens shot from various angles.  The numbers may be off.

#2
 

#6
 







#11








Like I said earlier, I didn’t play.  When I finished my little tour, I asked the pro if any first time player had ever gotten around in less than 40 putts?  He said “That’s why we send you out with a forecaddie” as a way to avoid the question.

[RSLivingston_III]

Crystal Downs has a few...

[Jimmy Muratt]

Sand Hills #2, #6
Kingsley Club #13
Crystal Downs #7,#8
Friar's Head #7, #14
Boston GC  #5

[Greg Tallman]

I thought this was going to be a thread about the new 14th at Sebonack.

[Niall C]

Andrew, as an Englishman I'm offended.  As a Yorkshireman you must be spitting......

Nonsense, the two of you are honoured that it got mistaken for a scottish green.

Sean,

You could almost say the 16th NB is two greens with a bit of mown grass in between. However it is the bit in between that makes the green interesting, the actual putting surfaces are fairly flat. Same could be said about quite a few of the greens at TOC and indeed Foxy that JNC seems to like so much, its the fall offs at the side that make them.

Niall