On the New Jersey Turnpike Heading to Pine Valley

[Kyle Harris]

I'm on the New Jersey Turnpike heading to Pine Valley for a field trip.

What are three things I will see that makes this place different from everywhere else?
What should I be looking for?

I won't read any comments until after the trip is over so don't worry about biasing me.

I'll report back on my own findings as well.

[Dan Herrmann]

Thumbs on the wheel at all times!

[Matt OBrien]

Why would you be driving there so late at night? Did you stay there

[Mike Cirba]

1) That it has more uniquely great holes than any other course on the planet, and that fact is instantly visually recognizable without having to play the course.

2) That the green internals are what separates it from any other course for the better player, not the intimidation factor.

3) That there is a BIG difference between creating isolation and hole separation and overgrowth and clutter, which today's presentation leans much too much towards....Opening up some of these holes and allowing them to breathe would better show off the greatness of the place.   For instance, the entire left side of #12 should be clear-cut to the ridge.

Further, I believe that the "natural" waste areas are being way too over-maintained, and are beginning to look completely artificial due to over-grooming.

I'll be interested to hear your insights after seeing it.

[archie_struthers]

 

You will be challenged to drive it good ....hit some crisp short irons ( just wait til you see #8)  and rip a couple long irons or hybrids (5)

and good luck putting some of the best greens in the world as reports say....fast !!!!!!

p.s.    you won't be reading this in time  but don't be afraid to hit your ball right off the first tee, it makes for an easier five 90% of the time ....and if you are 5 or 6 over after playing #5  don't despair !!!!

[JESII]

Kyle,

I think you should ask yourself if you've ever seen or played a hole that could be substituted for one of Pine Valley's and actually improve Pine Valley...

Not sure if I worded that correctly, but the point is that I can't think of a hole that, if used to replace any hole at Pine Valley, would improve the course.

I was asked this once while caddying there and still think the answer is no. This is not to say that Pine Valley has the 18 best holes in the world...just that they fit together as well as any 18 I've personally seen.

[Matt_Ward]

The surprising entrance ramp that feeds you into the main grounds. Many people -- myself included -- on the first time I played the course was really taken aback that the entrance was the way it is.

The PV location is in direct contrast to ANGC -- being off the hustle and bustle of Washington Rd.

Mike C hit the nail squarely on the head regarding some of the internal course dynamics.

[archie_struthers]

 

JES is sooooo right about the ebb and "flow' of the holes at PV  ...they are sequenced as well as any course I have ever played or seen

[Dan Boerger]

The first time I played Pine Valley I recall thinking how #1 was the best hole I ever played. Then, I thought the exact same thing on #2. Then, I thought #3 was the best par 3 I ever played ... you get the idea. I know it sounds esoteric and all, but the "fidelity to place" PV has is second to none.

[Joe Bausch]

Well, Kyle, how was the 'field trip'?!

My first experience at PV was last year's Crump Cup.  If you arrive right as the gates open, you can walk the course in reverse with very few people around.  You'll eventually catch up to some of the matches that have gone off earlier or the 10th tee, and then maybe around the 10th hole the championship matches.  It was the first time I had completely walked a course in reverse on my inaugural visit.  I wonder if my opinion of other courses would be different if I first experienced them similarly.

[Mark McKeever]

1) That it has more uniquely great holes than any other course on the planet, and that fact is instantly visually recognizable without having to play the course.

2) That the green internals are what separates it from any other course for the better player, not the intimidation factor.

3) That there is a BIG difference between creating isolation and hole separation and overgrowth and clutter, which today's presentation leans much too much towards....Opening up some of these holes and allowing them to breathe would better show off the greatness of the place.   For instance, the entire left side of #12 should be clear-cut to the ridge.

Further, I believe that the "natural" waste areas are being way too over-maintained, and are beginning to look completely artificial due to over-grooming.

I'll be interested to hear your insights after seeing it.

Mike,

Did you (or anyone else) notice the waste area short of the fairway on 16?  Its completely bare sand (no scrub pines/grass etc) and just seems to stand out as odd when youre looking at it from the tee.

Mark

[JESII]

Did you miss the turn at the railroad tracks?

[Kyle Harris]

This was one of those seminal moments we encounter in education.

Pine Valley, is to put it simply, the first property I've been on where I realized I will never fully learn everything there is to know about the place.

As a note, I didn't get to play the course - it was a field trip for Turf School.

More in a bit, I have to review a seminar I'm giving at Rutgers tomorrow.

[Kyle Harris]

A first thought:

At Pine Valley it seems like all the buildings like the halfway house and clubhouse are jammed into the extra land that wasn't needed for the golf course.

The golf course is the primary purpose of the site and all the ancillary buildings and even the driving range are secondary to the golf course. This immediately places the golfer at the whim of the golf course from the moment he enters the site. No apologies are given for the "inconvenience" reaching the support facilities requires either as the golf course is first priority.

I think this sort of attitude is all but extinct. Imagine having to park, cross the first tee to get to the clubhouse, take a ride to the range and then come back.

[Dan Herrmann]

Kyle - you described Merion East...  Park, (almost) cross the first tee, take a ride to the range and back.



Maybe it's a Philly thing!