The latest outrage from Riviera

[BobB]

Riviera's management recently presented the USGA Executive Committee with evidence that all 600+ members of Riviera had joined the USGA Members Program in a show of support for obtaining the 2008 US Open.

What management did not tell the USGA is that most Riviera members had no idea that they were joining the USGA.  Some members were contacted in advance and agreed to pay the $15 membership fee.  The remaining hundreds of members were charged the $15 fee on their monthly dues statement without their knowledge or consent.

Torrey Pines is looking better and better for 2008.

[YTT]

Calling Geoff Shackelford:

I read BobB's note about Riviera and, five minutes later, I read your article in this week's GolfWorld about Riviera.

What's the story, Geoff?  Should Riviera get the US Open?  You were equivocal in your article.  

And who is this Mike Yamaki that I keep hearing about?  What's his role in the redesign of Riviera?

[Lynn Shackelford]

I am a member at Riviera.  I know nothing about joining any USGA program.  But you can bet I will be calling the membership office tomorrow to inquire about this.  I will report back here on what I am told.  One of Riviera's biggest obstacles to an Open is that the membership would not be enthusiastic.
Mike Yamaki is a "defense" attorney in Los Angeles, heavily into the Democratic Party (closed the course for a fund raiser on a Sunday) and the owner's "representative" at the club.  He is also a part time golf course designer at Riviera, joining the USGA and Fazio course design.
Today, I played in a team match at El Caballero CC.  They played at Riviera yesterday.  At dinner the El Caballero members were asking, "what's with the new #8 at Riviera?"

[TEPaul]

I shouldn't speak for Geoff Shackelford but we sure have talked a lot about this recently and if you ask, my impression would be that at this point he would like to see Riviera give the USGA and their 2008 Open the shaft but that he doesn't think that this rather bizarre Riviera ownership and management wants to do that and is planning on spending all this money and very much corrupting Riviera's architecture at the expense of and probably against the wishes of the membership.

But Geoff's primary concern, or let's say disgust, is that the USGA has gone waaaaaay too far in suggesting to Riviera that the club should use this USGA promoted architectural tag-team of Fazio/MacDonald and also the non professional design input of the USGA's own tournament people to do a whole number of things, and architectural things, to Riviera that does not need to be done to the course.

Geoff believes that Riviera is (or could be restored to) the true laboratory of classic architecture from George Thomas (his favorite architect) and should be left alone by all these people.

I think he also feels that the USGA has failed to come to grips with the distance problem and their B&I rules, that they know that and are covering up that fact by needlessly taking it out on Riviera's classic architecture.

I think he feels that if all these people continue to pursue these design recommendations that even if the USGA agreed today to give Riviera the next ten US Opens that all these people should still be given the shaft anyway!

[Jeff_Lewis]

The most significant outrage will be when Torrey Pines gets the nod over the Riv. Appreciate the desire to hold the golf course on public tracks, but this is the US OPEN. Don't degrade the event. Let the PGA hold a tournament at Torrey Pines. I am sure we can find some daily fee tracks that are of sufficient quality to hold an open without sinking this low.

[Lynn Shackelford]

Mark, when not swatting flies, you downunder guys come up with some pretty good conclusions.  You aren't close you are right on!

Yes, it is becoming a corporate course.  Individual memberships are not accepted, corporate members at $225,000 are accepted.  Our monthly dues are now $650 and rising annually.  Another great story to add to Riviera's sad folklore.  Tuesday, the last day for play for members before the course was closed for the Nissan Open, Jamie Lee Curtis, our latest corporate member decided to use her new membership.  She comes out and is told she can get on the first tee in two hours!  I am assuming she was not a single, I am confident she could have "hooked up" with another group.  I wonder how she likes her investment now?

The Japanese owner at one time had respect for the Thomas design, but has been overruled by his current on site representative, USGA, Fazio and Latshaw gang.
Quote from current super, Paul Ramina who has done a fine job with the conditioning, on current renovations, "We're going to have critics, because we can't do it exactly as George Thomas intended, but that's really not our goal.  We're trying to update the original ideas to today's game."
I hope B. Crenshaw doesn't hear that one.

It is hard to stay at a place that is changing and progressively stomping on the members.  At some point you lose your self respect by staying.

Is the USGA using Riviera for leverage with San Diego?  I suppose.  I think San Diego has big edge today after Tiger's high score.  This will make the USGA thrilled.
Our head pro tried to get members' to agree to join the USGA member's program.  I was told he got more than 200 to agree to the $15 charge.  There are more than 600 members.  Funny, he didn't ask me.
So Mark you are not close, you are in the leather!

T. Paul

An accurate summary of Geoff's feelings.  I think Riviera is being considered because of its great design.  If the Fazio changes are not well received, it will hurt its chances because of its less than great design!  The club will sell its changes hard, and as we all know here, few in the golf industry truly understand great design.  They will wonder though why they don't enjoy the course as much as they used to.

[Paul Richards]

Lynn:

You mentioned Tiger's high score helping Torrey Pines.

I think they just took a couple steps back.  Someone told
me that "a guy I never heard of just shot a 61 there today."

That can't help their case!

[Geoff Shackelford]

Interesting topic, thanks Tom for stating my feelings pretty accurately. However, I think Riviera would make a great Open venue even with kikuyu, as I stated in the Golf World piece. As a fan of Riviera's history, I wish it could happen. But I just don't understand why the architecture has to be compromised, modernized, sanitized and Lord knows what else. I told that to Tom Marzolf today, and we have just agreed to disagree about what's best for the place, and the best message to send to the USGA. It seems clear that there isn't much of a conclusive vision to do what is best for Riviera, for the game of golf, etc... it's chaos at Far Hills, and as for Riviera, well, that's business as usual. But you would just think that some of that wonderful architecture would rub off on some of these people in a way that makes them want to appreciate what's in the ground and figure out how to preserve it. At least Paul Ramina in the comment my dad attributed to him is honest about it being a modernization, the rest insist it's a restoration, which is pretty obnoxious on their part.

But in the end, the USGA is really at fault here. I'm in Orlando at the GCSAA show, and the animosity toward the USGA is stunning. Not the volunteer officials or Green Section folks who for the most part really do great work, but for the organization hierarchy and it's apathetic, arrogant, pathetic stance and apparent lack of vision. The only encouraging thing to see is that with the animosity, is a clear consensus that something must be done to intervene on the technology/ball issue, and everyone seems to have lost faith that the USGA is the one who will act.

Oh and as for Riv members being charged, that's fascinating. One member who is a Double Eagle or Golden Eagle USGA member ($200) reported being bugged on the range by Riviera's head pro to pony up another $15 for this membership cause, so I'm sure there is some truth to this latest ingenious management move. And if they knew what David Fay openly thinks of the people in golf who care (like those on GCA who are also USGA supporters), well...that's another post for another day.
Geoff

[Lynn Shackelford]

The club was built and owned by the Los Angeles Athletic Club.  They sold it in 1989 in a hush hush deal to current Japanese company and owner Mr. Watanabe.  Sales price $108 million.  Owners were never offered or could have pulled off a purchase of this amount.  I suspect someday it will return to mainland ownership a la Pebble Beach.  It has some interesting possiblities, climate, hotel rooms, historic status, etc.

[Jeff Mingay]

Mr. Shackelford,

Did LACC need $108 million that badly? Why didn't the club want to keep their golf course?

Curious,

[Paul Richards]

Jeff:

Before you confuse anyone, LACC is the "handle" for the
Los Angeles Country Club.

I would assume the Los Angeles Athletic Club, which had
owned Riviera, would instead be LAAC.

[Chris Kane]

A member of my golf club here in Australia is also a member of the LAAC, and told me that before the Japanese bought it, he was able to pay $45 for lunch and golf there.  Now there is no reciprocal access whatsoever.

I assume that because the club is not owned by the members, it is a profit-machine first and foremost.  Lynn, how do your dues and other prices at the club compare with comparable clubs in the area that are member owned?  Have the membership numbers grown significantly since 1989?  What you need is a concerned member with a spare $300m+ to buy it back for the good of the membership! (and the golf course)

Mark, as discussed on other threads, I feel sorry for you and other members who've been mistreated at Papaparaumu.  I suppose the problem is that once you lose control, you'll never get it back.  Its easy for the corporates to buy the club, but mighty difficult for the members to buy it back.

[Chris Kane]

Mark,

At least the members at Riviera know where they stand!  At PB you're being taken over without really knowing it, which in one sense is worse than being sold off.

Shows what happens when a few get greedy.

[RJ_Daley]

Here is some more fuel for the fires built by conspiracy theory buffs:  Tiger did not send in his entry form for Riviera next week!  As I watch the finish at Torrey, Jim Nantz mentioned this in context that Tiger was miffed at his 77 on Friday and forgot or didn't send it in because of being disgruntled with his game at this time.   If you believe that, you should be allowed to buy a membership at Riviera along with lifetime riding tickets to space mountain.  I think it is part of the political mix of giving support to Torrey for that 2008 open which shows Tiger sitting out of the historically important LA Open at Riviera, rendering it as a venue - less prestigious.

[TEPaul]

That's not true! Contrary to almost everyone's belief the kid is actual human. The truth is he's got a new girlfriend back in FLA and he just felt the need to do something else next week!

[JohnV]

Riviera's politics and lack of respect for its members sounds much like Pumpkin Ridge's treatment of members.  The joys of being a member at a club that isn't owned by the members.

As for Tiger, he rarely plays 4 weeks in a row and if he had played Riviera it would make 4 in a row with the Match Play coming up the next week.  I'm sure the 77 had a lot to do with it also.  He probably felt the need to go away and practice after that.

[A_Clay_Man]

Lynn, I think "someday" will be sooner rather than after the '08 open. It sounds like a classic "pump and dump" just with a subtler asian flair.

[Lynn Shackelford]

A Clay Man

Dump the US Open after getting the nod?   That is a fear which has been privately expressed by David Fay.

[TEPaul]

Lynn:

Really? David Fay privately fears that Riviera might dump the  USGA's 2008 Open AFTER getting the nod? It seems like some people appear to privately fear there will be a USGA in 2008 to get dumped.

[johnk]

Here's a link to a story in the LA Times today that's about as counter as possible to this thread's depiction of the changes.

The club has a great history and image that it can leverage in any PR battle.  So it's clearly positioning these changes as improvements that bring the course back to it's original design.

Since I've read "The Captain" about 10 times, I'd be more inclined to believe Geoff S  However, your average golf fan will only be hearing what the club wants to say...

Golf architecture will never be a mainstream aspect of golf in any case, so what can you do?


http://www.latimes.com/sports/golf/la-000010868feb12.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-golf

[David Wigler]

I am assuming that Larry Stewart is not part of the GCA tree house or else he would have been incapable of writing such moronic drivel.  Let me get this straight Larry, over the past forty years, Riviera has shortened the course by close to 200 yards and made significant other changes to make it easier and now the powers that be have added back the 200 yards and all of the old features so the course will be hard once again. Gee, why didn't I know that?  Doesn't every course in America make itself shorter and easier over time?  I wonder if one of you boys out on the west coast could tell Larry about the revolutionary concept of consulting with club historians and those really odd things that they have called routing maps.  Maybe even those flimsy black and white doodads that the aficionados at the LA Times might refer to as pictures.

Anyone even in the periphery of the golf business understands that their are golf writers and industry shills.  Articles like this are the perfect litmus test to determine which is which.  The LA Times should be ashamed.

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Tom Paul,
My dad meant to say that they will dump "the club" after getting a US Open, not the Open (they need the $$$). I'd guess it's a better than 50% chance they will try to sell Riviera if awarded the Open and the USGA surely must know that (well, then again, maybe not, they are pretty out of touch). The lead lawyer trying to run the club has openly said his interest was to get into brokering golf course sales, and I'm sure Riviera will fetch a decent commission at some point for him, but long after he's ruined the course and devalued it by at least $20 million. I really do believe the owner, Watanabe, used to have good intentions, but now he seems to have changed and is all about satisfying his ego. The course and club do not mean much to him anymore. Getting the Open is somehow going to make him feel better about himself. After spending $12 million on a clubhouse renovation that no one really cares too much about, he's been pretty aloof. Somehow, piped in Muzak in the locker room doesn't seem like something you find at other Top 20 courses, maybe that's why the $12 million seems so painful.

JohnK and David Wigler,
Classic stuff from the LA Times eh? They ran a picture of three old guys playing the course from about 5 years ago too. Poor Larry got sent out with about two hours to write something before he went back to his real job (reviewing sports on TV). He clearly picked up the club's glossy press packet that is laid out in the media center. It's a doozy, incidentally, compiled by USGA staffer Tim Moraghan's wife (nice conflict of interest there, but I'm sure that today's USGA respects such displays of integrity). On one glossy photo page, the text refers to the "restauration" of Riviera by Fazio Golf Course Designers. I love it, there's Reestoration, and now, Restauration! The packet also has several classic descriptions of the course sterilization work, including the summation line that declares, "George Thomas, welcome home!"  Ugh...

I think the players will love the new work,  A) because most are clueless about architecture, and B) because if they say otherwise, the commissioner will fine them. And you are right John, the average guy will believe what he reads. It still doesn't change what's in the ground, which looks truly gross from a design and construction standpoint, and of course, looks nothing like anything Thomas every built that I'm aware of!

The McBunkers looked beamed in from Bethpage, the McGreen add-on's just so silly. The McTees are out of scale, and the landscaping of the barranca really bizarre (it's an easy up and down out of the barranca? What's with all the turf?)  Everyone involved should be ashamed to keep throwing George Thomas's name around and declaring this to be restoration. But they have no shame or integrity, which is why the next wave of work will really be bad.

The good news is the course is in beautiful shape considering the weather we've had. The greens are hard and fast and smooth, so it should provide an interesting and reasonable test. But if the winning score is low, it'll be deemed a failure and in need of more Muzak inspired "restauration." How backwards, eh?
Geoff

[George Pazin]

That's my nomination for saddest post of the year. Sorry to hear more bad news, Geoff.

[Neil Crafter]

I'm saddened by this too Geoff. Perhaps the next step will be "restaurantization", which is when you do the design work for the remodelling from the grill bar on paper napkins without actually seeing the course! Sorry, couldn't resist that!!
Neil

[Paul Richards]

Geoff:

Maybe we should ask Tom what they meant by
the "restauration" of Riviera by Fazio Golf Course Designers.

Me'thinks it wasn't a "typo" but a new way to design
courses for the 21st Century.