2nd Annual Midwest Mashie @ Lawsonia - The Wrap Up

[JWinick]

The golf course was very, very good.   18 solid to great golf holes.   Wonderful green complexes.   Great terrain.   Good conditioning and great value.   

My main criticism was the fact that most of the tee shots are blind.   Even if you know the course, I would prefer a more modest use of blind tee shots.   On 16, I hit a drive everyone thought was perfect and we couldn't find the ball.   I know that's "the rub of the green" and part of the game, but it did crystallize my belief that they overused blind tee shots.

As for the accomodations, the town is pretty remote, so we did well under the circumstances.   For traveling snobs like me, I get used to staying in Marriotts!

[Rick Shefchik]

Guys --

I can't believe none of you has had the cojones to mention the big food fight after Dan Moore's presentation, right there in the dining room at Lawsonia.

I mean, the chanting about the Langford/Moreau greensites -- the Chicagoans yelling "Natural-looking!"; the Twin Citians yelling back "Engineered!"; and poor, winded Pat Craig, fresh from his escape from the Green Lake Inn, running back and forth between the two groups, shouting "Natural-looking!" and "Engineered!" in rapid succession -- was embarrassing enough, but when the bratwurst and Leinie Reds started flying over whether Langford or Moreau was the "true genius" behind the turbo-boost berms ... well, let's just put it this way: I think it's going to be quite some time before Lawsonia lets out any other sixsomes in carts on a Sunday afternoon!

Dan

I'm sure they see that kind of stuff all the time at Lawsonia. I was surprise, however, that dinner was served by the three strippers that Pat Craig brought over from Foxtail's in Montello. The two women weren't bad, but I wish the guy hadn't been assigned to the bratwurst tray.

[Jud_T]

The only slightly weaker part of the course in my mind is 13 & 14, both of which could be improved dramatically if all the trees were removed.  Even so I have a bit of an issue with 13.  For the average hitter, if you don't get all the way down into the gully on your second shot then you're hitting your approach from a downhill lie to a sharply uphill green. Small quibble however for one of my all-time faves....

[Patrick Hodgdon]

... well, let's just put it this way: I think it's going to be quite some time before Lawsonia lets out any other sixsomes in carts on a Sunday afternoon!
Dan

GCA Sixsome!!??!?!?!? Carts??!?!?!?!? With GPS??!?!?!?

Did Melvyn share his latest nightmare with you or something?

I wonder if it looked something like this:



(Faces have been blocked to protect the innocent...)

[PCCraig]

The only slightly weaker part of the course in my mind is 13 & 14, both of which could be improved dramatically if all the trees were removed.  Even so I have a bit of an issue with 13.  For the average hitter, if you don't get all the way down into the gully on your second shot then you're hitting your approach from a downhill lie to a sharply uphill green. Small quibble however for one of my all-time faves....

Jud,

Isn't that what makes the hole though? The shorter hitter could drive out to the right off the tee, then hit the 2nd shot to ~185 and have a flat lie and a view of the green while the better player will flirt with the far left bunker off the tee to have a similar shot at the green. Or the middle player will hit driver, then decide if he wants a downhill lie and a view of the green, or a shorter uphill, but blind, pitch?

I thought it was interesting that it was figured out that the 14th green was rebuilt after the picture featured in Geoff's book was taken. While I understand taking down (or at least thinning) all the pine trees around 13 and 14, I do think it gives that little corner of the property a bit of a different look, otherwise wouldn't #14 just look like a scaled down version of #7?

[Bill Seitz]

The golf course was very, very good.   18 solid to great golf holes.   Wonderful green complexes.   Great terrain.   Good conditioning and great value.   

My main criticism was the fact that most of the tee shots are blind.   Even if you know the course, I would prefer a more modest use of blind tee shots.   On 16, I hit a drive everyone thought was perfect and we couldn't find the ball.   I know that's "the rub of the green" and part of the game, but it did crystallize my belief that they overused blind tee shots.

As for the accomodations, the town is pretty remote, so we did well under the circumstances.   For traveling snobs like me, I get used to staying in Marriotts!

I didn't mind the tee-shots so much as I thought the lines were still more or less pretty obvious.  Maybe it's just because I got to know them so well after three rounds, but I didn't think there were any tee-shots where you'd walk out to the fairway and scratch your head saying "I had no idea this (insert hazard) was here".  I don't recall any tee-shots where I thought a good shot turned out to be not so good, and I say that as one who hit a lot of fairways this weekend (though very few greens, as getting off the tee seemed to be all I could do well).  I loved the staggered bunkers on 13, and the general theme of being rewarded for taking agressive lines toward interior bunkers on doglegs.  

I loved the fact that the green complexes, while severe, really had no hidden dangers.  There was never a time where I thought it was safe to miss on one side or the other, and turned out to be totally mistaken.  You know exactly where not to miss on every approach, so it's impossible to blame the course for being unfair on approach shots.  That said, there was definitely still some greens where local knowledge or experience would have been useful.  On Saturday afternoon I had an easy pitching wedge into #3.  It landed on the front half and just exploded on the first bounce, eventually running off the back of the green.  I'd like to have that shot back with that result in mind.

As for the accommodations, how many hotels offer both a front entrance/exit AND a back entrance/exit, to which Pat could attest?  Honestly, while it wasn't the Ritz, it was clean, and after dragging my bag for 36 holes, and throwing down about 8-10 beers, I probably wouldn't even have needed a mattress to fall asleep.

[Dan Kelly]

The only slightly weaker part of the course in my mind is 13 & 14, both of which could be improved dramatically if all the trees were removed.  Even so I have a bit of an issue with 13.  For the average hitter, if you don't get all the way down into the gully on your second shot then you're hitting your approach from a downhill lie to a sharply uphill green. Small quibble however for one of my all-time faves....

I think 13 is, as it stands, one of my favorite par-5s anywhere. I wouldn't change a thing about it.

It's a JOURNEY par-5 (my favorite kind) for EVERYONE -- long, short or average. The shot demands will be different for every player every time, depending on atmospheric conditions, ground conditions and the condition of one's game.

And as for the trees: They provide a nice (IMO) visual contrast to most of the rest of the course. I didn't hear a lot of ball/wood confrontations, and I didn't see any spots where the trees produced lost balls and unplayable lies.

[Bill Seitz]

And as for the trees: They provide a nice (IMO) visual contrast to most of the rest of the course. I didn't hear a lot of ball/wood confrontations, and I didn't see any spots where the trees produced lost balls and unplayable lies.

Definitely agree with both sentences, especially the lost ball part.  I was packing for two trips, and inadvertently left a couple sleeves in my apartment.  I played four rounds over the weekend, and used one ball for each round.  With the price of golf balls these days, it's just another aspect that adds to the values of Lawsonia and Spring Valley.

[Jud_T]

The only slightly weaker part of the course in my mind is 13 & 14, both of which could be improved dramatically if all the trees were removed.  Even so I have a bit of an issue with 13.  For the average hitter, if you don't get all the way down into the gully on your second shot then you're hitting your approach from a downhill lie to a sharply uphill green. Small quibble however for one of my all-time faves....

Jud,

Isn't that what makes the hole though? The shorter hitter could drive out to the right off the tee, then hit the 2nd shot to ~185 and have a flat lie and a view of the green while the better player will flirt with the far left bunker off the tee to have a similar shot at the green. Or the middle player will hit driver, then decide if he wants a downhill lie and a view of the green, or a shorter uphill, but blind, pitch?

I thought it was interesting that it was figured out that the 14th green was rebuilt after the picture featured in Geoff's book was taken. While I understand taking down (or at least thinning) all the pine trees around 13 and 14, I do think it gives that little corner of the property a bit of a different look, otherwise wouldn't #14 just look like a scaled down version of #7?

Pat,

I think both would be much better as skyline greens with no trees but, as discussed by Dan, that's unlikely to happen for safety reasons.  Perhaps I'm being too critical of 13 because it just doesn't suit my eye and I don't think I've managed to par it in a half dozen attempts, but it may be more like 200 yards uphill for the a truly flat-lying layup for the short to medium hitter.  The tee shot is quite good, although more fitting for a righty drawer of the ball than lefty, and I know they just made the best of the glacial kettles there, but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to whine.  It's an easy layup to the gully for the lower handicap and two pretty solid shots for everyone else...

[Mark Smolens]

Jud, I'm not so certain that laying up to the gully is the correct play, even for the bigger hitter. The approach from the bottom, completely blind and tough to know the yardage (unless, of course, you're playing the same pins the second day and it's your fourth time playing the hole!), is no bargain. Frankly, if you're not long enough to get it to the far side of the gully I don't see any reason to not lay up. . .

My only par on 13 in three tries on my own ball was drive to right rough, hack out 5 hybrid to 220 yards, kill 3 wood to rough left of the green pin high, and then X wedge to completely blind pin to 3'. But the Friday morning round I did have 134 yards to middle of the green from only a slight downslope -- should've been an easy par but it took a while to adjust to green speeds, they looked faster than they rolled to my eye. . .

In retrospect, you could probably get away with 3 wood to anywhere in the fairway, and 3 hybrid short of the dropoff, so long as the wind wasn't too strong in your face.

[Patrick Kiser]

Back to the salt mines here and what a whirlwind weekend to say the least.

I'd also like to extent a quick thanks to George, Pat, and Dan for putting on a fine show.  Tip top lads!

I dare say Mark Pearce walked away feeling we didn't disappoint on this one.  As in ... these Yanks aren't that crazy.  

That said, I enjoyed myself thoroughly and especially enjoyed bumping into some familiar faces like John Mayhugh, Brian Joines or Norm Olsen, but meeting GCaers for the first time is always great as well.  Too many new faces to list obviously, but I enjoyed the matches against George the man himself with Andrew Lewis and the singles match with Bryan Sander.  The look on George's face after team Joines/Kiser finally dropped a putt to push the match on the 18th hole was ... priceless.  Nice seeing Jon Winick and Matt Sander go at it in day two while Bryan and I did what we could to keep up.  Also want to thank Brad Tufts for hanging around to finish a Sunday afternoon round.  That was fun despite my running out of gas on that back nine.

Finally, a special thanks to Dan Moore for allowing me to crash the pad on Saturday night.  I was starting to worry I'd sleep in the rental car...

A quick note on the 13th / 14th.  I think the trees can also be there for safety reasons.  A few went long on the 13th and without the trees, you'd be peppering the 14th.  Otherwise, I do feel the trees depart from the expansive openness evident on the back 9.  Regarding the plaque on the 14th, it's not clear if the whole was simply refurbished or rebuilt.  The hole as it stands now does not look out of place and feels consistent as far movement goes.  The 14th reminded me a little of the "Boxcar" 7th, except the green is rather different.

Lots for me to digest and will provide a little feedback shortly, but I'll try to post a few pics in the next day or so.  

Surprisingly, no group photo.  What gives?

[Jud_T]

OK Boys,

Step up and give us your honest Doak Scale thoughts.  I'd guess TomD would have it as a 7 now post de-treeing (6 originally in the CG).  I'm gonna stick my neck out and say Tom underclubbed a bit here.  It's an 8 in my book.  Tons of fun for all and not a pushover for the serious player from the tips.  In my top 25, and I'm pretty well travelled for an overweight middle aged hack.  As Steve S. said presciently this weekend, imagine if this place were a private club on the tip of Long Island how it'd be rated....

8. One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places, and none in others), and worth a special trip to see. Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout.

[RJ_Daley]

8. One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places, and none in others), and worth a special trip to see. Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout.

Jud, I think 8 pretty well gets it.  It is known by all it this region that it is one of the very best.  It must be worth a special trip, you guys came.  I've had groups coming here a dozen years ago from the internet from 'rec.com' and several other mini groups of GCA guys, and some that just heard of it word of mouth and came.  But the real test is, do they make another special trip to come back?  Well, I've joined up with several happy returns of GCA contributors.  I guess the drawback I've heard most is the course at turning points is all right turns.  But, I think many positions demand or beg a draw approach.  But the right turning points are definitely clearly spelled out.  Some say blindness is a drawback.  In a layout like this, I subscribe to it is only blind once.  AFter the first or 100th play, you not only have an idea, but you have known choices of how you want to play it off the tee from downclub, to get to one side or the other, or some directional decision that always makes a difference depending not only on wind, firmness in FW roll-out, to pin position.  One 'really special' aspect could be the rare earthen works of the green and sweeping gull wing mound and bunker complexes.  Rayor does similar, but L&M is dramatic in that regard.  Another unique aspect might be the routing in the middle going with pars of 5-3-5-3-5-3 and 3 par 3s and three par 5s on the back nine.  Yup, I think 8 is fair rating.

[PCCraig]

OK Boys,

Step up and give us your honest Doak Scale thoughts.  I'd guess TomD would have it as a 7 now post de-treeing (6 originally in the CG).  I'm gonna stick my neck out and say Tom underclubbed a bit here.  It's an 8 in my book.  Tons of fun for all and not a pushover for the serious player from the tips.  In my top 25, and I'm pretty well travelled for an overweight middle aged hack.  As Steve S. said presciently this weekend, imagine if this pace were a private club on the tip of Long Island how it'd be rated....

8. One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places, and none in others), and worth a special trip to see. Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout.

Jud:

I think its easily an 8.

[Matthew Sander]

I'd also like to extend a hearty thank you and congratulations to George for setting up the Mashie and making sure it went off so well. I was as excited as anyone to see Lawsonia for the first time thanks to the discussions and photo tours here. However, my lofty expectations were far exceeded. It was a fantastic choice for the event...

As always, it was great to meet a host of new GCA faces. Like Bill, I would also like to thank everyone for making my brother, Bryan, feel so welcome. We both had a great time, even if our lack of contribution made the final tally a little closer ...

A note to Patrick H., I appreciate your measures to suppress the evidence, but no need to protect my identity as a part of the final sixsome...As a matter of fact, I highly recommend it become tradition to close GCA events with a sixsome (preferably with 3 Minnesotans), playing a 2 man scramble, in carts, putting for 9 skins on the 18th, and having a blast. It was a great way to close the weekend...hit and giggle at its best.

Lastly, next time I return, I'll take an extra few minutes to look for Jon Winick's lost ball on 16. He smoked it over the right edge of the left berm, and poof...it was gone. I've never seen a lost ball so baffling...

[Steve Salmen]

Many thanks to George and Pat for being such great captains.  Also, a very special thank you for the site selection.  

Initially I was excited to play in the Mashie again but not thrilled about the 3.5 hr drive.  I had heard good things about Lawsonia, and even seen some pictures that looked interesting.

I decided to make a pit stop at Blue Mound CC on the way up.  The staff was nice and friendly (as most folks in Wisconsin seem to be) and even gave me a tour of the front before my round.  From hole 1, it was quite obviously an old Raynor course.  The double plateau second was just fantastic.  The club has been removing trees and it looks really nice.  The greens were firm, fast, and true.  It was a real treat

I really had no idea how good a golf course Lawsonia Links is.  Every green is defended externally by bunkers and steep walls, and internally by severe contours.  It's kept fair by keeping the greens somewhere between 8 and 9.  Though several tee shots are semi blind, I think most fairways were quite generous.  It was my first trip and I intend to get back many times.

Like Jud, this golf course is easily in my top 25 and I rate it somewhere between 8-9.  Better than Shoreacres, probably not as good as Pacific Dunes.

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks to George for organizing the even and to Dan for an enjoyable discussion of Langford.  This was my second time at Lawsonia, and it was even better than I remembered.

For me, the highlight was playing foursomes on Sunday morning.  Lawsonia is really well-suited for that format, with seemingly every shot an interesting one.  I also gained more of an appreciation for some of the features of the course by both giving more thoughts to the shots that I had to play, and thinking about what my partner should have done.   

As Dan mentioned during his talk, the aesthetic at Lawsonia really works.  While many of the features are bold, they don't seem to be in conflict with the land.  Much like Raynor's work, these can be as visually appealing as the "minimalists."

[Patrick Hodgdon]

Man what a great weekend it was. I can only echo just about everything that's been said. Hats off to George and Dan putting it all together and the background on Langford!

Let me be the first to vote for Lawsonia as an official Midwest Mashie "rotation" course. We should host it there at least once every 5 years and perhaps every 3.

Along with enjoying every aspect of the course I had a blast meeting and playing with some fellow GCAers that I dare now call friends. I will especially thank my 3 partners Mark "The Purple People Eater" Smolens, Bill Seitz and Matt Sander. Appreciate you all putting up with my inconsistency and being overly excited about my good drive or two a round.

I will second Matt's vote for future GCA sixsome 2-man team scrambles to wind down the weekend. Super fun format that was just an all around blast on Sunday afternoon. Major bonus points to Lawsonia for allowing us to do it. One of the aspects that made it a ton of fun was mixing up the tee boxes to be played. We tried playing #5 from the gold tee as a 445 par 4 as it was originally designed, and then we also added 2 short par 4's to the mix by playing from the reds on #8 as a 249 par 4, and #17 as a 275 yard par 4. Mike Davis would have been proud of us for sure and it's something I think I'd enjoy doing on a more regular basis and that I would encourage everyone to try it who hasn't yet.

As a few of us discussed after the last round Sunday, when *trying* to think of a hole that wasn't "great" like all the rest, a few agreed that #1 was a bit of a sleeper, but yet it's still a really nice warm up hole in a sense too.

Also I'd love to hear everyone's favorite 3 hole stretch. I think mine was 5-6-7 with 13-14-15 being a close second.

Lastly I will join the chorus to rank Lawsonia as an 8 on the Doak scale. I haven't traveled nearly as much as some here but I was having a long debate with myself on where Lawsonia falls among the best courses I have played. After Seminole (9) and Pasatiempo (8 ) I think it probably comes in third on my list as an 8 slightly ahead of Calusa Pines (7), Interlachen (7), Whistling Straits (7), Blackwolf Run (7), Common Ground (7), and Holston Hills (7) which is still pretty shocking to me.

I'd be curious where others rank it in regards to Pasatiempo and also to Holston Hills for those who have played it as Lawsonia reminded me a little of HH. I'd also be curious where others think it belongs on GolfWeek's top 100 Classic.

[Phil McDade]

Here's a link to the Doak Scale:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=19565.0;wap2

Sorry I missed out on the festivities; I tend to agree w/ those who view Lawsonia as an 8. There may be one course better in Wisconsin (Milwaukee CC), but that's a maybe; for my tastes, I think overall it's a better test of golf, with more interesting architecture, than Blue Mound. With perhaps a few exceptions in Chicago proper, I think you'd have to travel quite a ways radiating out from Green Lake to find a course its equal.

[George Freeman]

Thanks for all the kind words!  It sounds like everyone had as good of a time as I did.  Lawsonia turned out to be a excellent host and venue.  I echo the thank yous to Dan Moore for putting together a nice presentation for us on Saturday evening.  I also want to thank Pat Craig for doing the pairings and helping out with other stuff during planning.

I definitely like Patrick H.'s idea of possibly making Lawsonia a rotation course which we visit every few years.  It seems there is always something to be learned out there.  Hopefully next time we can get them to change the pins on Sunday morning!!  That was really the only letdown of the entire weekend; there are just so many great pin placements on those greens due to the amazing contouring and it's a big bummer all the rounds were played with the same pins.

Next time we head back to Green Lake I will have to remember to bring the following to make Mr. Winick's weekend go a little smoother:

1) A dozen of these: www.prazza.com (or maybe only a sleeve??)
2) One of those white things the spectators are holding in the background so he can get a better look at some of those fairways: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/golf/specials/masters/2004/04/07/gp_palmer0406/index.html
3) One of these so he can sleep a little better: www.buscentral.com

[George Freeman]

The only slightly weaker part of the course in my mind is 13 & 14, both of which could be improved dramatically if all the trees were removed.  Even so I have a bit of an issue with 13.  For the average hitter, if you don't get all the way down into the gully on your second shot then you're hitting your approach from a downhill lie to a sharply uphill green. Small quibble however for one of my all-time faves....

Jud,

I think 13 is one of the stronger holes on the course.  I do agree that at 550 yards (often into the wind) from the white tees, it might be a little on the long side for the shorter hitter.  However, I really like the hill a lot b/c it adds a level of complexity to the layup.  Anything but a good drive will leave a question to the player as to whether or not he thinks he can get all the way to the bottom of the hill.  If you attempt to get it all the way down and fail, you're left with one of the more difficult shots in golf: fairly severe downhill lie to a fairly severe uphill approach.  If you're really out of position off the tee, you're probably better laying back to 175 yards or so, which should afford you with a pretty level stance.  

The drive is one of my favorites on the course with the step bunkers down the left and plenty of room to bail out right.  I believe the 13th green is one of the least severe on the course from a contouring perspective.  Maybe this is b/c there is a decent chance a player will be coming into this green with a longer club.  I've never missed the green left but it is classic Langford/Moreau: a 10 foot wall of grass awaits.

As far as the trees go, I really don't mind them.  I think for the most part they are big, beautiful white pines and they do not contribute to lost balls one bit.  The trees on 13 act as great aiming points for the player at the bottom of the hill.  On #14 they are a little more in play if you happen to careen off one of the banks.  But overall they do not factor into play very much and I think they are a nice little break from the treeless holes that come before and after.  Also, I think the trees to the left of the 11th tee box are critical for the safety of the players.  I saw at least one tee ball per round from the 10th land on or near the 11th tee.  

[George Freeman]

7-An excellent course, worth checking out if you get anywhere within 100 miles. You can expect to find soundly designed, interesting holes, good course conditioning, and a pretty setting, if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf.

8-One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8’s in some places, and none in others), and worth a special trip to see. Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout.

I'm in the camp which thinks the course has "8" written all over it.  Based solely on the definitions above, I believe the bold part of the "7" definition is what puts Lawsonia into the "8" category.  Lawsonia is definitely something unique to the world of golf.

I'm with Steve S. on this one: if you were able to transplant Lawsonia to Long Island and give it the maintenance budget and prestige afforded to that sample of courses, I believe Lawsonia would be regarded as one of the better courses in the country.  It's just that damn good and fun!

[Matthew Sander]

I agree with the sentiment in favor of hole 13. The best par 5s create a challenge on each of the three shots, and 13 surely passes this test. The drive is strategic (and very attractive to boot) and leaves a lot of room out to the right. If you do bail right though the slope of the fairway and angle slightly exaggerate the difficulty of the lay up, which requires a decision (primarily regarding the length of the lay up). Finally, the approach is either from a very difficult lie or is nearly/entirely blind.

One criticism could be that of the above choices for the lay up, none are rewarded with relatively easy approaches. If I remember correctly, essentially all of the approaches from about 160 and in have multiple degrees of difficulty. I guess if your drive is long enough you could attempt a bolder lay up to the small, somewhat flat portion of the fairway just in front of and below the green. That said I just love the challenge of decision and execution present in each shot.

A hole that few have mentioned, and I think it is because it is almost unanimously regarded as the best hole on the course, is hole 6. Another perfectly placed carry bunker with the kick slope on the back side serves as the perfect directional guide. The approach is one of the most attractive and difficult I have seen. I only wish we had seen a back left hole location where you could use the steep slope to feed it down while risking a slight pull into the left hand bunker.

As Patrick stated before, there is not a single hole on the course that qualifies as weak. The only one we could come up with is hole 1, but with the massively built up slope on the left hand side of the green and the awkward drive, there is no way it could be called ordinary. It was discussed in the course tours by Ran and Dan that holes 12 and 17 were built on the least interesting locales on the site, but each have tremendously constructed green complexes that make them interesting holes.

I don't think I have enough points of reference in order to come up with a Doak number, but as George said, it seems the definition of an 8 describes Lawsonia accurately. Regardless of any rating, the course is fun, unique, challenging, and beautiful. If a course accomplishes all of those things, it belongs in a pretty lofty peer group.

[Adam Clayman]

Sounds awesome.

I'm curious, other than Smols lament, did any Virgins feel or experience any GCA epiphanies?

[Dan Kelly]

I'm not qualified to be an Architecture Critic (and have zero opinion of where Lawsonia belongs on Mr. Doak's scale), but if I were, I might suggest that TWO heroically long par-3s on one course might be one too many.

I love 10 (great trompe l'oeil bunker; great, undulating green), and I wanted to love 4 -- but the more I think about 4, the more I think it's just TOO long -- particularly with that punitively deep bunker guarding ... what? 90 percent of the front of the green.

Uphill, into the wind, at 245 yards, my smartest play (never pursued, naturally) probably would have been a layup with a 4-iron to the right, hoping for a pitch and a putt. But what fun is that?

Do you think the hole would be better, 30 yards shorter? I do.

As for 13: I think it's not only not flawed, but is one of the best holes on the course.