[V. Kmetz]

Hi jim,

i love the place so much, I'm willing to take the bait...

Just picking holes out for their worth, not as they might connect on the property (which would be fairly easy but different) i would select the following 18 in the approximate order I like them up to four par 3s and four par  5s (member's card) and at their best playable distance:

A.  13 East - 140 Par 3
B.    6 West - 325 Par 4
C.    1 West - 420 Par 4
D.  12 East - 525 par 5
E.  17 West - 435 par 4
F.  15 East - 335 par 4
G.  10 West - 180 par 3
H.   4 East -  535 par 5
I.   8 West - 420 par 4

J.  17 East - 205 par 3
K.  9 West - 505 par 5
L.  1 East - 380 par 4
M.   7 East - 430 par 4
N.  15 West - 390 par 4
O.  13 West - 200 par 3
P.   9 East - 380 par 4
Q.  16 East - 425 par 4
R.   12 West - 540 par 5

3315
+
3455 =

6770 yard  Par 72

now if you want me to keep their location o nthe property in a practical design of what's there...then it would be a little different

cheers

vk

[Carl Nichols]

VK:
It's interesting that of your top 11 holes, only one of them is in the first 10 holes of the East, i.e., the holes that sit on that side of the property. 

[Jim Nugent]

VK, how would this course compare to the two existing courses?  Fun, difficulty, etc?

[Matt_Ward]

VK:

I think it would better if an actual "routing" of holes could be done that people could actually play.

A "practical design" is indeed even more fun to discuss.

[V. Kmetz]

Hi all,

first of all...i'm replacing item "N" -

15 W - 390 yard Par 4

with...

18W - 405 - Par 4

[V. Kmetz]

Jim, Matt, Carl and All,

with my earlier replacement of 15 W by 18W, I still have to make substitutions  how i would best structure my favorite 18 into a routing.

working on it...

cheers

vk

[Matt_Ward]

VK:

Let me say this -- the first four holes of the West and the last four will need to be on it. Ditto thepar-3 10th. Don't know how you would be able to do it without substanial walks or major leave outs.

Look forward to seeing your thinking ...

[V. Kmetz]

here's my best that keeps as many of my favored and balanced 18 as possible...it's a Par 71, its motherf*** of an opener the middle is your scoring and it turns by the pavilion of 12,13,17W outhouse plaza, but you get to go back and through to the clubhouse twice on the inward nine, there's only a handful of longer walks - there's some there now as is.

the USGA would have a tough time making this play their kind of "70" but they can just play 9W as a short card five and su** it.  it's a pretty fun course for most of us

If the club would be reasonable and let me move the clubhouse to what is the 14W fairway, I could have done somewhat better.

I had to lose 4E, 7E, 8W, 12W and 17W from my best list, substituting 2W, 11W, 16W, 11E and 18E in their place:

1W
2W
6W
15E - 300 foot walk from 6W
16E
17E*
12E*
13E*
16W* - 340 foot walk from 13E

13W*
18W - 270 foot walk from 13W
11E
9W* - 225 foot uphill walk from 11E
9E -    200 foot walk from 9W
10E
10W*
11W
18E - 170 foot walk from 11W

[Matt_Ward]

VG:

WF doesn't have the wherewithal for a sound mixed routing of the two courses.

Walking almost a football field from 13 to 18 W is too much.

Losing the par-4 8th is also a major loss.

I give you applause for the noble try but the walkings and the inclusion of some so-so holes would only lessen the experience that Tillie originally provided.

Getting back to your main point -- hard for me to fathom why the East is never really mentioned in any course description. Once people talk about the West they quickly move to other area Tillie courses such as QR and Fenway. A pity indeed.

[Jaeger Kovich]

You could put together a number of different combo / composite 18s from WF... but to me every single one would start with West #1 and end with West #18.

These holes define the spirit of the place. #1 was the 2nd hardest hole at the open to #18. Its long, its narrow, and with the 3 vertical channels on the super steep green, the hole just screams "WELCOME TO WINGED FOOT". Then there is #18, the only hole on the entire west course that only needs bunkers on one side of the green.. Come on that is so G

[Matt_Ward]

Unfortunately, so much of the identify of WF/W is tied to sheer demands. The sad reality is that people assess courses -- for the most part --on its wherewithal to deal with their game. The West is unrelenting from the drive to the approach to the pear-shaped greensites that dot its landscape. It's amazing how many times people will wax poetic about nearby neighbors like QR and Fenway but WF/W and to a lesser extent WF/E, are often minimized and all but ignored.

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