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Anthony Gray

Prestwick
« on: November 04, 2010, 06:58:41 PM »


  Why isn't it ROYAL Prestwick?Great history...Old Tom...Immitated aachitecture.Is this an injustice?

   Anthony



 

Carl Johnson

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2010, 07:27:48 PM »
Well, I will be the first to respond.  It's a great course with all of the history, seemingly.  But what does it take to be "Royal"?  I imagine that there's "politics" involved, but as a Yank I have no idea what plays in GB (although I should?).  So, I look over there for the answers.

JNC Lyon

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2010, 09:24:40 PM »
Old Tom Morris? I thought that guy pictured in the grill was the pro at Pebble Beach.

Seriously though, the golf course and history are certainly enough to garner Royal status.  However, even though I should, I have no idea about what goes into the designation "royal" for a club.  What was the last club to obtain the official "royal" designation.

If we are taking about Prestwick, I would rather discuss the golf course that is there than discuss its name.  It's hard to imagine a more unique, diverse, and downright FUN configuration of 18 holes.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Philippe Binette

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2010, 09:56:54 PM »
I think that to be designated as royal, in the original sense of the name, you needed to have the king or queen to give the club that name. most of the time, an influent member of the royal family was the member of that club.

the duke of kent was an honorary member of royal quebec at some point in history.


Dale Jackson

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2010, 10:21:22 PM »
The business of being given the "Royal" title is a bit of a "black box", although each club needs to have a connection with the Royal family, and preferably a monarch.  That does not mean that individual needed to be a member of the club but have a strong connection.  There is much more that has gone on behind closed doors but that is a minimum requirement.  Each Royal club will have a unique story to tell.

The question of why Prestwick is not Royal is part of a bigger story.  Why aren't several clubs Royal, clubs such as the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers (Muirfield), Swinley Forest, Wentworth and Sunningdale, for example.  No one really knows, some clubs don't want the title, others have been excluded for "sins of the past".

The last club to be given the Royal title was Royal Mayfair in Edmonton (2005).  Other recent Royals include Royal Regina (1999) and Royal Wellington (2004).

I can relate the story of how Royal Colwood became Royal.  The then Prince of Wales, later King Edward VIII, later the Duke of Windsor after he abdicated, visited Victoria and played our course in 1919, 1923 and 1927.  During the last visit our Secretary politely enquired if the Prince would favour us with his patronage, which he granted.  Later a request was made to his father, King George V, to permit the use of the "Royal" title.  With the Prince's support, permission was granted in 1931.  There is a long story about mis communication between the Club, Rideau Hall (the residence of the Canadian Governor General, who is the monarch's representative in Canada), and Buckingham Palace.  When King Edward VIII assumed the throne he reconfirmed the Royal title.  Each club will have a similar story to tell.
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2010, 11:34:58 PM »
JNC:

I thought Prestwick was in a category higher than a mere "royal". It is one of just a few courses in the world that can compete with North Berwick on the fun scale.
Tim Weiman

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 03:04:27 AM »

If we are taking about Prestwick, I would rather discuss the golf course that is there than discuss its name.  It's hard to imagine a more unique, diverse, and downright FUN configuration of 18 holes.

The week before BUDA I was in Scotland with a non GCA type guy who's contribution to the trip was to insist we play TOC and Prestwick "because of the history".  We also played, ELie, The Eden and North Berwick all in good weather. ON the last day we played Prestwick, the first time for both of us. It reallypissed down and the wind howled, both without a single break all day, and I couldn't have had more fun.  Greatly exceeded my high expectations.  TOP 10 (5?) course for me.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Chris Kane

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 04:08:08 AM »
I have no doubt that if Prestwick wanted to be Royal Prestwick, they would be. I've heard it said that they're in a category with Muirfield and Swinley Forest where becoming a Royal club would be a step down!!

When I played there in 2006, I asked my host whether they'd ever want to be a Royal club - "we don't need to be Royal, what defines our club is our history". What struck me about Prestwick was how aware and (justifiably) proud they are of their place in the golf world and their contribution to the history of golf, without being at all ostentatious. I hope that never changes.


Emil Weber

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 08:57:57 AM »
Ah, I'm a bit disappointed... when I read "Prestwick" on the board I thought I could once more rave about how exceptional I find the place to be :D

My expieriences with the club and the members are like  Chris', the members are proud of their club and really do want to share their course, but they just don't see the need for the "royal" seal.

A question, when was the last time a course was given the royal seal?

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Prestwick
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2010, 09:32:40 AM »

Prestwick 1860 an Article on the First Open  from Glasgow Herald


Letter printed in The Scotsman regards a match held just after the 1860 Open



The Scotsman report on the 1870 Open at Prestwick

Page 2


Prestwick was the home of the Hunters while St Andrews was the base for the Morris’

Hope the historical information is of interest.

Melvyn


Dale Jackson

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2010, 10:53:48 AM »
Emil Weber asked "A question, when was the last time a course was given the royal seal?"


The last club to be given the Royal title was Royal Mayfair in Edmonton (2005).  Other recent Royals include Royal Regina (1999) and Royal Wellington (2004).

I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

Mike Benham

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2010, 12:41:41 PM »

Perhaps it is the Kummel that is holding the course back from achieving lofty Royal status ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Dale Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Prestwick
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2010, 12:56:31 PM »

Perhaps it is the Kummel that is holding the course back from achieving lofty Royal status ...

If only it where true!  Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your opinion of the putting mixture) that particular libation is available in all Royal clubs in the UK.

Tragically Kummel is unavailable in North America.  I once made inquiries about having some brought into our club and was informed it was possible if we placed an order of, I think, 140 cases.  A rough calculation showed that supply was adequate for easily 100 years!
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Prestwick
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2010, 02:14:29 PM »
Ah, I'm a bit disappointed... when I read "Prestwick" on the board I thought I could once more rave about how exceptional I find the place to be :D

My expieriences with the club and the members are like  Chris', the members are proud of their club and really do want to share their course, but they just don't see the need for the "royal" seal.

A question, when was the last time a course was given the royal seal?

Emil, Tony, Tim:

I have the same impression about Prestwick.  The members were very excited to have me there to play.  I walked into the pro shop when I first got there, and the head pro, David Fleming, immediately introduced himself.  Being head pro at Prestwick is a rare distinction, as there are only six or seven in the club's entire history.  I found a headcover while I was on the course, and I turned it in to the shop.  When I went back out for a third nine, the gentleman to whom the headcover belonged introduced himself to me.  I was wearing my Swinley Forest sweater, and he commented on how Swinley was a great club and course.  He later bought me a drink, and some of the club officials showed me the Members' Grill, which contains a ton of great historical memorabilia.

For those of you who missed my thread about my Prestwick journey back in March, the link is here:
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43568.0/

This was one of the single greatest golf experiences of my life.  The journey, the club, the COURSE, everything was phenomenal.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Chris Kane

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2010, 04:38:45 PM »
A question, when was the last time a course was given the royal seal?

I think Auckland became Royal Auckland early this year.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2010, 05:35:36 PM »
Royal Golf Club Mariánské Lázně in Czech Republic was granted Royal status in 2003.

It appears (Royal) Auckland Golf Club has now had Royal status confirmed but it's yet to be in properly in place. Rumour had it they'd jumped the gun.
Cave Nil Vino

Scott Warren

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2010, 01:52:01 AM »
From what I have heard, Mark, Mariánské Lázně may also own the title of worst Royal golf club!

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Prestwick
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2010, 02:24:43 AM »
Scott - Royal Malta isn't known as a beaut and Royal Epping Forest play over a muni course. Royal status isn't about the quality of the course though.

I took a new Kiwi member (Scott we replaced you sharpish witha Kiwi!) to the Autumn dinner. Whist enjoying the experience he was surprised at our level of patriotism especially when the Royal telegrams were read out at dinner.
Cave Nil Vino

Mark Pearce

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2010, 02:33:30 AM »
Scott we replaced you sharpish witha Kiwi!
Improving the club in small but steady steps?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Prestwick
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2010, 03:32:33 AM »
Indeed Aussies are like uneducated Kiwis!  ;)
Cave Nil Vino

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