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Mark_Rowlinson

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Green fees 1932
« on: November 04, 2010, 02:46:40 PM »
I happened to be looking at several volumes of British Golf Clubs by Road and Rail - Golf Clubs of the Empire edited and published by T.R. Clougher. Six of these volumes were published between 1927 and 1932. I was able to make photocopies of about 70 old pictures of golf courses from various parts of the Empire and I will share these with you as soon as I can persuade my scanner once again to talk to my Mac.

For some reason I made a note of the green fees at a number of random GB and I courses in 1932. For those not familiar with old British money there were 12 pence (d) in a shilling (s) and twenty shillings in a pound (£). The notation for 3 shillings is 3/- and that for three shillings and six pence is 3/6.

Old Course, St Andrews 2/6 per round
Southerndown 5/- per day 3/- after 1 pm
Hillside 2/6 per day (5/- Sat, Sun, Bank Holidays)
Beau Desert 2/6 per day (3/6 Sat, 5/- Sun and Bank Holiday)
Sunningdale (must be introduced by a member) 5/- per round (20/- Sat and Sun)
Hunstanton (summer) 7/6 per day (winter) 5/- per day, Easter, Whit, Bank Holidays 20/- per day
Gog Magog 3/- per day
Pennard Gents 3/6 per day Ladies and Juniors 2/6 per day
Carnoustie Old Course 1/6 per round
Prestwick 1/6 per round
Royal Dublin 5/- per day
Cork Men 2/6 per day Ladies 1/6 per day
Royal County Down 3/6 per day (admission to clubhouse by invitation)
Royal Portrush June-Sept 3/6 per day other times 2/6
Portmarnock 5/- per day
Lahinch men 3/- per day ladies 2/6
Ballybunion summer 3/- per day winter 2/6 per day
Killarney 2/6 per day
Crail men 2/- per day ladies 1/6
Cruden Bay (guest staying at hotel) 3/-, others 4/6 per day
Islay 2/6 per day
Machrihanish 3/- per day
Aberdovey 5/- per day
Aldeburgh 5/- per day
Cavendish 3/6 per day
Church Stretton 3/6 per day
Bull Bay 3/- per day
Reddish Vale 2/6
Muirfield 7/6 per day (2/6 with a member)
Notts 2/6 per round, 5/- per day
Princes 10/- per day (introduced by a member or the Secretary)
Royal St George's (must be introduced by a member of the club and play with that member at weekends) 7/6 per day
Royal Cinque Ports (introduced) 5/- per day, 7/6 per day Aug-Sept
Westward Ho! (visitor introduced) 5/- per day
Alwoodley 5/- per day
Moortown 3/6 per day

A few from the Empire:

Canada:

Earl Grey (Calgary) $1 per month
Castor (Alberta) Ladies play at all times. No charge for visitors
Vancouver G and CC $1.50 per day $10.00 per month (same at Marine Drive, Point Grey, Shaugnessy Heights
Colwood G and CC $2 per day, Sat, Sun and Holidays $2.50 per day) $25 per month
Royal Montreal GC Links open to visitors on introduction by a member: $2 per weekday, $3 Sat, Sun and hols
Banff Golf Club 'Course controlled by Parks Branch, Department of Interior' $1.00 per day

NZ:
Hutt GC 2/6 per day (Sat and Sun 5/-)
Miramar GC 3/6 per round, 5/- per day, 15/- per week, 40/- per month

Ceylon
Royal Colombo GC Rs 3 per day, Rs 15 per week, Rs 25 per fortnight, Rs 40 per month
Nuwura Eliya GC Visitors (introduced) Rs 3 per day, Rs 15 per week. Ladies, Officers of H.M Forces half fees.

Bermuda
Shore Hills G and CC $1.50 per day, $8 per week, $20.00 per month. Unfortunately green fee rates are not given for any others of the Bermuda courses.

Mesopotamia
The Royal Baghdad Golf Club 9 holes. Sadly, no further details are given.

Straits Settlements
Singapore Golf Club $2 per day

British Honduras
Belize GC Entrance fee $20.00. Subscription (monthly) ordinary members $3.00, country members $12.00 per annum. Temporary members $5.00 per month (no entrance fee)

Natal
Durban CC 2/6 per day (Sat and Sun 5/-)

South Africa
Royal Port Alfred GC 3/- per day, 15/- per week, 42/- per month, ladies 2/6, 10/- and 30/- respectively
Port Elizabeth Golf Club 2/6 per day, 10/- per week, 30/- per month
The Country Club, Johannesburg Temporary members are admitted upon introduction of two members in writing. Gents 42/- per month or part thereof, ladies 21/-
Houghton GC 2/6 per day, 10/6 per week
Pretoria GC 2/6 per day, 12/6 per month
Pretoria CC 2/- per round
 

Bob_Huntley

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2010, 02:52:02 PM »
Mark,

It is well to remember that as late as 1944, a wage of a lot of people was thirty shillings a week. Lord knows what it was like in the period mentioned by you.

An expensive game then, as now.

Bob

Peter Pallotta

Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2010, 03:07:56 PM »
Mark - sorry for this bit of whismy/idiocy, but when I read your post and saw the cost of St Andrews, my first thought was of Alastair Sims in "A Christmas Carol" -- when, after Scrooge's night with the 3 ghosts and his abrupt conversion, he asks his charwoman Mrs Dilber how much he pays her.  And when she says "Two shillings a week", Scrooge replies "It's forewith raised to ten!!".

Mrs. Dilber: 10 shillings a week? What, for me?
Scrooge:    Of course for you, Mrs. Dilber?
Mrs. Dilber:  What for?
Scrooge:    I'll give you one guess.
Mrs. Dilber:  To keep me mouth shut?
Scrooge:  Ha, ha - no, Mrs. Dilber, because it's Christmas.

Anyhow, that was set in the 1850s I imagine, before the time addressed here in your post. But it did comfort my heart to know that, if Mrs. Dilber was making 10 shillings a week back then, she could splurge and play St. Andrews (well, if she saved up). the gents at Princes, on the other hand, clearly didn't want the Mrs Dilbers of the world -- 10 shillings for the day?!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 03:10:51 PM by PPallotta »

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2010, 03:11:11 PM »
Interesting to note the Welsh courses were pretty expensive and are now generally "good" value.
Cave Nil Vino

Bill_McBride

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2010, 03:12:28 PM »
I think one pound sterling was about US$5 art that time, so $1 = 4 shillings.

One interesting thing to note is how much more relatively expensive the Old Course has become.  In 1932 it was 2/6 and Pennard was 3/6!  Today I think TOC is at least double the per round cost of Pennard.  Beau Desert cost the same as TOC.

Muirfield and Sandwich were 7/6 per day.

I wonder how much Pebble Beach cost to play in 1932....


Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2010, 07:17:58 PM »
Princes 10/- per day (introduced by a member or the Secretary)
Royal St George's (must be introduced by a member of the club and play with that member at weekends) 7/6 per day
Royal Cinque Ports (introduced) 5/- per day, 7/6 per day Aug-Sept
 


Thank you Mark.  Princes was THE fashionable club then.  The Prince of Wales played there and the smart set stayed at the seafront hotel, all long gone.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2010, 07:45:34 PM »
Bill,

One pound was $3.51 in 1932.

Pebble was $10.00 in 1960, and jumped to $20.00 in 1970. Don't know about 1932.  In 1924 San Frnacisco's Lincoln Park charged @1.00 per month and it cost $3,000 to join LACC.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 07:58:07 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2010, 08:24:39 PM »
Mark
Thanks for posting, very interesting .

Heres hoping you get that scanner working .

Bill_McBride

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2010, 08:44:53 PM »
Princes 10/- per day (introduced by a member or the Secretary)
Royal St George's (must be introduced by a member of the club and play with that member at weekends) 7/6 per day
Royal Cinque Ports (introduced) 5/- per day, 7/6 per day Aug-Sept
 


Thank you Mark.  Princes was THE fashionable club then.  The Prince of Wales played there and the smart set stayed at the seafront hotel, all long gone.

And Gino Saraceni (Gene Sarazen) won the 1932 Open Championship at Princes with his ancient caddy in the overcoat!

I had a great time playing Princes in September with Jamie Barber showing me where the current holes were in the routing then, and taking me down to see the dune ridge which Sarazen carried with his brassie every day to make three birdies and an eagle, winning the tournament on that hole alone!

Bob_Huntley

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 11:32:43 PM »
I think one pound sterling was about US$5 art that time, so $1 = 4 shillings.

One interesting thing to note is how much more relatively expensive the Old Course has become.  In 1932 it was 2/6 and Pennard was 3/6!  Today I think TOC is at least double the per round cost of Pennard.  Beau Desert cost the same as TOC.

Muirfield and Sandwich were 7/6 per day.

I wonder how much Pebble Beach cost to play in 1932....



Bill,

I have commented about this before in GCA. I played Pebble Beach for the first time in 1963 and in a piece I did for South African Golf magazine reported that "The green fee was $7.00 and the caddie cost me $10.00."

I do know that the monthly dues at MPCC in the period 1926 through 1953 started out at $3.00 and were raised slowly to $9.00. Sam Morse  was the fairy Godfather during that period, picking up the tab for all sorts of needs.

Bob



Phil_the_Author

Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2010, 12:02:32 AM »
Some from this side of the Pond in 1932:

Bethpage - $1 weekdays/$2 weekends
Merion - $3/5
Inverness - $3
Pinehurst - $3 day/15 week/40 month/75 season
NYC Municipal courses - $1
Baltusrol - $4/5
SFGC - $3/4
LACC - $3/5
Cypress Point - $2
Pebble Beach - $1.50 hotel guests/$2 all others
Gasquet Golf Course $0.50

Jamie Barber

Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2010, 03:18:13 PM »
Quote
Thank you Mark.  Princes was THE fashionable club then.  The Prince of Wales played there and the smart set stayed at the seafront hotel, all long gone.

I always thought it was strange that, given the above, the same smart set allowed the course to be requisitioned in WWII or, if this was inevitable given the threat of invasion, why there wasn't an attempt to restore the course exactly as it was pre war. As I understand, if it wasn't for Bridgland, it may never have been rebuilt at all.

FYI the rebuild of the original clubhouse and dormie houses is well underway, so by the summer visitors will be able to stay on the seafront once again.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 03:24:49 PM by Jamie Barber »

TEPaul

Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2010, 03:28:49 PM »
I realize this is obviously something that is gone with the wind and a practice of another time altogether but I remember with various clubs you would go in there with some friends who were not members----go into like the office and they would look at you and say: "Don't worry about it (greens fees) just go out there and have a good time." The ones I'm thinking about included The Links, Piping Rock, The Creek and Gulfstream but there were definitely others in the old days.

It even happened at that wonderful little Mallow in Ireland in 1999. I showed up there so early to play alone two mornings in a rwo there wasn't even anyone there. So I just went out and played and went in later and paid the green fee two days in a row and for the rest of the week when I went in there afterwards the lady told me not to worry about that anymore.

Still today that solid week of sunrise golf I played alone at that funny quirky little ultra F&F course in Mallow Ireland was the most ethereal experience, and in a number of ways, I've ever had in golf. I remember thinking at one point that it would not surprise me in the slightest if King Arthur came charging over the hill on his stead!

And I should probably add to that I have never taken drugs!  ;)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 03:36:02 PM by TEPaul »

Jamie Barber

Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2010, 03:53:39 PM »
Quote
And I should probably add to that I have never taken drugs!  ;)
Maybe you need to start :)

TEPaul

Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2010, 04:10:12 PM »
Jamie:

I do not need to start taking drugs at this point any more than my good friend, George Holland, the ultra-fine and august historian of The Creek Club needs to start drinking coffee, at this point. If he did I would have to constantly scrape him off the ceiling!

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2010, 04:22:16 PM »
I have a friend who turned down an invitation to join Pine Valley in the early 1960s when the initiation fee was about $1500.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jamie Barber

Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2010, 04:29:30 PM »
TEPaul:

I believe there are "uppers" and "downers", as appropriate  ;D

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2010, 04:37:54 PM »

Jamie I feel the ‘smart’ referred to their dress and connections, but I concede your point. 

IN those days it did seem like the R&A were placing a lot of importance in playing the Open down south.

Golf in Kent.
Clubs founded.
RSG 1894
RCPGC   1892 (18 holes 1898)
Princes 1906

OPEN Championships
1894 RSG
1899 RSG
1904 RSG
1909 RCPGC
1911 RSG
1920 RCPGC
1922 RSG
1928 RSG
1932 Princes
1934 RSG
1938 RSG - after winter course flooding meant a switch from RCP
No Championship 1940 - 45
1948 RSG - after winter course flooding meant a switch from RCP


And that was it until 1984 when changes to RSG helped it find favour again. 

Princes had been called the first modern links and obviously didn’t surpass its neighbours in the R&A’s eyes.

IMO Brigland was both the saviour and a problem. He hired two architects and spilt the work. Wanted 27 holes with no blind shots, predetermining what many see as Prices weakness, always playing between the dunes.  I also understand when it reopened he had the first two holes as Par 5’s because he liked it as a way to warm up into the round!

It would be interesting to look at the people in the R&A and wonder why so favourable to the south pre war, but then ignoring it after.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Bill_McBride

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2010, 04:41:51 PM »
Bill,

One pound was $3.51 in 1932.

Pebble was $10.00 in 1960, and jumped to $20.00 in 1970. Don't know about 1932.  In 1924 San Frnacisco's Lincoln Park charged @1.00 per month and it cost $3,000 to join LACC.

Last time I played Pebble it cost $65 in 1978, and I carried my bag.

Jamie Barber

Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2010, 05:01:46 PM »
Tony

What I have been told is that Princes would have likely held the Open again, but the war got in the way and of course from then on it wasn't the same course.

Our former secretary told me that Bridgland had two ambitions, to play to scratch and to own a Rolls-Royce. I believe he did both.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but notice the identity of some of the R&A captains in that period (1922, 1930, 1937)
http://www.randa.org/en/Our%20Heritage/The%20Royal%20and%20Ancient%20Golf%20Club/Royal%20Captains.aspx

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2010, 05:33:51 PM »
GOOD spot Jamie.

This is the thread which asks Why isn't it Royal Princes?  


With the  connections it had that's a valid question.


I always thought it was strange that, given the above, the same smart set allowed the course to be requisitioned in WWII
 

I once met a memebr of Walton Heath who said "The bloody M25 would never have gone through our course, if Churchill had still been alive!"
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2010, 05:39:21 PM »
Jamie - Deal suffered some damage but the greens were protected during WWII, Field Marshall Birdwood was captain or President in 1946 and there were a few military captains in the 1930s. I wonder whether it just needed the right "sponsor" to ensure the sappers dig the defences in the right place.
Cave Nil Vino

RSLivingston_III

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 05:56:34 PM »
Shouldn't we be looking at pre-recession prices?
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Jamie Barber

Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2010, 01:49:15 PM »
Mark, yes I'd heard that. I think even at Princes all but 1 green survived. Laddie Lucas of course was closely connected with the course and a DSO but maybe his rank wasn't high enough during the war. Of course we'll never know for sure but my gut feeling is that most of the prominent landforms still remain. I think there was a lot of military hardware left on site and I know shell casings etc reappear from time to time
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 01:51:25 PM by Jamie Barber »

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Green fees 1932
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2010, 02:04:50 PM »
One pound in 1932 is worth 52 pounds in 2010 on an inflation adjusted basis.  Therefore the fee at St Andrews in 1932 translates to an inflation adjusted 121 pounds today - pretty close to today's fee of 130.

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