[Matthew Mollica]

Troon's come up in a number of threads in the last week. Especially the "Rearrange these GB&I Courses into your own Top 10." Noone's put Troon inside their Top 5, and may have either put it in their bottom bracket or expressed no desire to see it. Recent rankings can't seem to get Troon anywhere lower than 20th or so. I've only played it once, and walked it again that afternoon, (admittedly many years ago) and thought the course might get a little more appreciation than it seems to from the GCA brethren.

A question for those who have played Troon and don't look upon it favorably -

What don't you like about the course?

MM

[Mark_F]

MM,

There are some holes there I would be quite interested in playing - 7, 9, 10, 13 and 15 - but the rest of it from what I have seen doesn't hold much appeal, especially at it's current green fee of ₤175.

What elements of the course did you appreciate?

[Sean_A]

Much of the front nine is filled with holes which wouldn't make the cut on most other great links.  The back nine is a slog back into the wind.  Then there is the outrageous green fee which is more or less a message to visitors that they aren't welcome.  Then there is the herd mentality organization on the 1st tee with visitors more or less treated like cattle.  In this regard, Muirfield isn't much different.  The course ain't bad, but it rides the championship road as hard as any course out there.  Take away the Open and what is left?

Ciao     

[Kevin Pallier]

Matthew

I think the relatively non-descript landscape and lack of variety with the routing has a lot to do with it. The run home basically felt like a bit of a slog with very few movements or changes in direction.

The best stetch of holes are for mine 6-8 and they are on probably the most interesting part of the property particularly in terms of the greensites. I also liked the challenge of 11.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The stretch from 6-13 are as good a test as anywhere on the Open rotation, and as such I thik it deserves its place in the top twenty of any list.
The first few are a little lame I agree and the last few exceedingly tough..as such they equal eachother out and make it a very stern test, as long as there is a little wind.

[Tim_Weiman]

Matthew,

As someone who likes Royal Troon I would guess the routing doesn't appeal very much. I could see people thinking the start is a bit boring and the finish just not much fun,especially if played into a strong wind.

Then, there is the neighborhood. For fun it is hard to compete with nearby Prestwick and Turnberry, even if it has a bit too much of an American feel, is a glorious place to play golf.

But, I think there is something cool about Troon. The golf course is just itself not another attempt at being a Top 100, if that makes any sense.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I am lucky enough to get to play Royal Troon for nothing as a member's guest. I am not, therefore, concerned about the green fee which would no doubt alter my appreciation of the course had I to pay it. I can also play there on days when no visitors are allowed which gives a guest an extra sense of privilege.

I like the first three holes as they get play under way quickly, are not intimidating, yet are quite subtle. Miss a green by only a whisker and you may have no chance of getting close to the pin with your recovery. I don't like the 4th or 6th which seem to be rather featureless slogs. I do like the 5th as it takes you onto high dunes with fine views and there is no alternative to a perfectly struck tee shot. You cannot scramble par. The 7th is a glorious hole with great settings for tee and green. I always enjoy my skirmishes with the Postage Stamp whatever my fate. I hate the winter version of the hole with the shot over the left part of the dune to a minute hidden green. I really can't find affection for the 9th. It's dismal setting beside a rubbish dump and a caravan park doesn't help. Additionally I cannot drive far enough to see the green so my second shot is hit-and-hope over the mound which deflects running approaches very unpredictably.

From the medal tee the 10th is a wonderful hole, but it is ghastly played from the winter tee (in similar fashion to the championship tee), blind over the vast sandhill in front. I've not played the 11th from the championship tee, but from the medal tee, from which you can see the complete hole, it is exciting. The 12th seems unlike any other hole on the course, but as I have usually contrived to play it well I like it. The 13th and 15th are similar in demanding perfect driving and an approach shot very likely played from a difficult lie. The short 14th, in between, ought to offer a moment's respite but has enough teeth to bite if you wobble. I have to say that I don't enjoy the 16th. I can't reach the ditch from the tee nowadays, but in the days when I could (from the medal tee) reach it it seemed too unfair on that better than average drive. The remainder of the hole is pedestrian. For what seems such a large target the 17th green is very difficult to hit and hold and to rescue a bogey can be a very good result. I love the 18th - dead straight at the clubhouse and, if you can keep out of the bunkers with your drive, the green is in reach of two shots (even for me) from the members' tees. However, I'm only likely to creep onto the green, so the out-of-bounds through the back is not a consideration.

[Bob_Huntley]

Much of the front nine is filled with holes which wouldn't make the cut on most other great links.  The back nine is a slog back into the wind.  Then there is the outrageous green fee which is more or less a message to visitors that they aren't welcome.  Then there is the herd mentality organization on the 1st tee with visitors more or less treated like cattle.  In this regard, Muirfield isn't much different.  The course ain't bad, but it rides the championship road as hard as any course out there.  Take away the Open and what is left?

Ciao     

Sean,

I think you have summed it up admirably. The feeling of 'Not Wanted Here, Except Your Money' is/was no more apparent than at Royal Troon and
Muirfield. I hear that things have improved greatly at HCEG since Paddy Hamner retired. I have not played at Troon for well over fifteen years and have no desire to return. My favorite on the West Coast is Western Gailes.



Bob

[Mark Chaplin]

Mark in 2009 the greenfee was over £200 and that only included one round on the championship course, that is milking too excess. They clearly got a bloody nose in order to drop the fees by around £50 per day.

[Gary Slatter]

I would agree with Sean's assessment although I do like Muirfield much better.    I loved the Marine Hotel next door, I like a couple holes but overall I can't get excited by Troon.   I do think they have the best logo though, I love the serpents wrapped around the clubs, very masonic !     No Love about says it all.

[Niall C]

I've been thinking for a while of starting a thread on why no love for Royal Troon and then thought tonights the night when I read Adrians thread, and then low and behold someones done it for me.

Like Mark I've been rather fortunate that I've played it a number of times with friends who are members so have never had the quibbles that others have had on greenfees and timings. I do think that with the enlarged clubhouse the club has somehow lost a bit of its charm but then I don't judge the course on the clubhouse.

For me it is a fantastic course, not pretty or photogenic like Turnberry or quite a lot of other links, despite its coastline but it has its charms. Mark describes it well, the only thing I would add is that the first few holes are supposed to be easy and yet I can't recall parring either of the first two holes. In comparison to Turnberry for instance the first half dozen have more interest generally and more interesting green complexes in particular.

To kind of answer Matthews question, I tend to think that the course might be better loved if a few of the holes faced the water. I played Castle Stuart with a friend who is a Troon member and got talking to the General Manager afterwards. My friend was saying what wonderful views CS had and compared it to Troon. The GM politely pointed out that Troon only has one hole facing the water and with a sea view, that being the Postage Stamp. Being a member and playing the course all the time, he wasn't really aware of his surroundings because he was so accustomed to the place. Visitors have a different perspective and therefore views count for them.

The other aspect that probably gets it marked down is the terrain. At the far end the terrain is all dunes wheres as the part of the course near the clubhouse is fairly flat. The housing and practice fairway tends to accentuate this. Perhaps a bit of judicious mounding might help 

Alternatively if you were routing the course from scratch I would do it back to front from the way it is now. I would have the first playing down the 18th as it is now and so on. That would save the better terrain to last and present a nicer view looking up the coast rather than down with the first few holes at the moment.

Niall

[Niall C]

Mark in 2009 the greenfee was over £200 and that only included one round on the championship course, that is milking too excess. They clearly got a bloody nose in order to drop the fees by around £50 per day.

Mark

I think all of the big clubs are down on total green fees as we weather the current financial turmoil. Troon, and I dare say a lot of the other Open rota courses tend to go up and down depending on when they last hosted an Open. A couple of years ago my friend was telling me that bookings were down to 40% of what they were right after the Open and that was something that the club just accepted. I did suggest to my friend that probably put most folk off was insisting the they take the two course package as most are only going to play the old course without even looking at the Portland. So far they the club don't seem to have taken that on board, or maybe they just don't have to.

Niall

[Andrew Summerell]

The feeling of 'Not Wanted Here, Except Your Money' is/was no more apparent than at Royal Troon and
Muirfield. I hear that things have improved greatly at HCEG since Paddy Hamner retired. I have not played at Troon for well over fifteen years and have no desire to return. My favorite on the West Coast is Western Gailes.

Matty,

I've got to agree with Sean & Bob, & similar to Bob, I love Western Gailes.

[Jon Wiggett]

Matthew,

this is the worst of the Open rota courses and there are many not the rota that are much better. It has many non descript holes, charges an absolute fortune and when I was there had a really bad attitude towards visitors. Despite parting with a sum of money that would get you a yearly subscription at a course in my neck of the woods I was treated by the club and it membership as some sort of nussiance that was barely to be tolerated.

Needless to say, I will not be going back again,

Jon

[RSLivingston_III]

My first ever rounds in Scotland were the Troon courses. The next day was Prestwick and Western Gailes. I'd rather play either of the second day courses over the "big" course at Troon. The comments about the back 9 being a slog hit home with me. I rather liked the blind shot over the dune at the turn.

[Mark Pearce]

I have no view on Troon, since I have never played there and don't feel any great desire to.  I am puzzled and perplexed by Sean and Bob's comments regarding HCEG, though.  In the last 6 years I have played Muirfield 3 times asa visitor, paying the full green fee on a Tuesday or Thursday and probably a dozen times as the guest of a member on a day other than Tuesday or Thursday.  I have never felt any less welcome as a green-fee paying visitor than as a guest.  Most of my friends who have played as visitors have felt welcomed but, ocasionally, I speak to someone with an experience that sounds like Sean or Bob's.  Is this an experience based on expectations, or have I been lucky, or others unlucky?

[Jim Eder]

Mark,

I have been a non-member guest at Muirfield and Troon and I have been a guest of members at both courses. As a non-member guest at both Muirfield and Troon I have always been treated extremely well and never was made to feel unwelcome at either. Now, this was a while ago so maybe things have changed or maybe I was lucky as well. It saddens and honestly surprises me that others have not gotten the same treatment as I. The folks at both clubs have been wonderful each and every time.

[Anthony Gray]

  I love the finish in front of theclubhouse porch.And it is close to Prestwick.

  Anthony

[Bob_Huntley]

Mark,

I have been a non-member guest at Muirfield and Troon and I have been a guest of members at both courses. As a non-member guest at both Muirfield and Troon I have always been treated extremely well and never was made to feel unwelcome at either. Now, this was a while ago so maybe things have changed or maybe I was lucky as well. It saddens and honestly surprises me that others have not gotten the same treatment as I. The folks at both clubs have been wonderful each and every time.

Jim and Mark,

Like you I was treated very well at both clubs, but I was wearing my R&A tie.

Go back in time when Paddy Hamner was the Secetary at Muirfield and you could write a book about his boorish antics with visiting Americans. I saw him humiliate an American couple and then keep an American two ball waiting an hour to to tee off with no one on the course. He got out his big naval binoculars,
looked over the empty course and let them go off the tenth tee.

He may well have mellowed before he died but he was one misanthropic prick before that.

I understand that the present Secretary is a delightful man.

Bob

[Gary Slatter]

Matthew,

this is the worst of the Open rota courses and there are many not the rota that are much better. It has many non descript holes, charges an absolute fortune and when I was there had a really bad attitude towards visitors. Despite parting with a sum of money that would get you a yearly subscription at a course in my neck of the woods I was treated by the club and it membership as some sort of nussiance that was barely to be tolerated.

Needless to say, I will not be going back again,

Jon

the secondtime I was atTroon we had a similar experience.  the course was empty and they would not let 3 of us past the pro shop cash register. One of us was a Hall of Famer so we played elsewhere and have not sent them a round since.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I can't remember the Portland course well enough, but I wonder if a composite course could be arranged from the more interesting holes on both courses? I recall some quite characterful holes on the Portland.

[Mark Pearce]

Bob,

I don't think Hanmer is fondly remembered.  The current secretary and his staff are lovely, not just to members and their guests but to visitors as well.

[Matt MacIver]

I share most of the apathetic comments about Troon after my lone play.  But thinking about the boring 1st three holes afterwards it did occur to me that I had driven thru the fairway on each of them, because the tees either lined you up that way, or I didn't know where I was going, or F&F, or the wind...but it did make the angles to the greens more severe and harder to hit.  So maybe there's some genius in that, or maybe Members can easily figure out that riddle. 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Maybe a thread the top 18 Dullest holes on the Open Championship rota could be a discussion and Troon may have several entries. For me I was dissapointed with Troon and for the same reasons many see on here, 1, 2, 3, 14, 15, 16 are not all that. On the love side I think 5 is nice and 7, 8, 11, 12 , 13 and 17 are great holes. Bit of quirk in 9 and 10 and the two long fives aint mingers.

[Niall C]

Matthew,

this is the worst of the Open rota courses and there are many not the rota that are much better. It has many non descript holes, charges an absolute fortune and when I was there had a really bad attitude towards visitors. Despite parting with a sum of money that would get you a yearly subscription at a course in my neck of the woods I was treated by the club and it membership as some sort of nussiance that was barely to be tolerated.

Needless to say, I will not be going back again,

Jon

the secondtime I was atTroon we had a similar experience.  the course was empty and they would not let 3 of us past the pro shop cash register. One of us was a Hall of Famer so we played elsewhere and have not sent them a round since.

Gary

I wonder if the issue was that they were waiting for the alloted time when visitors are allowed to tee off ? If thats the case, the starter or pro won't have the discretion to let them on the course outwith visitors times. That might seem pedantic or "bad business" but the rule is there for the members. In my experience members are happy for visitors to play the course, and hope they enjoy it,  but what the members also want is to know they can down to the course at set points in the week and know they can get on relatively easily. Thats the benefit of being a member and how many courses used to be as well. Unlike Troon other clubs have a more flexible approach which is to the detriment of the members as they can be caught out by showing up at their own club and end up stuck behind a party of 12. I know its happened to me.

Niall

ps. clearly I'm in a minority of 1 who likes the first half a dozen holes. 

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