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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 03:26:15 PM »

Philip

I do not disagree with you but the subject matter is one Tom Bendelow, not anyone else. Its his contributions that are being discussed and so should we not honour that topic.

I have no problem adding on others , or how the pecking order should go, but we should recognise all that deserve note. On this occasion the article was I believe Bendelow. To side line his input because we each favour others is not right on this occasion.

Tilly achieved more than Tom, perhaps, that’s not the debate at the moment but seeming to be jealous because Tom may be in before others is just plain wrong.

Want Tilly in, I’m with you and you have my support, but not at the expense of another. WE are not judge and jury just because we research document

So I feel it wrong to suggest another or promote our hero while discussing the merits of the original individual.

Melvyn


PS Pat, How you survived the cull is way beyond me because you are not worthy to lick the boots of some who have had to leave.


Classy as always Melvyn... ::)
H.P.S.

Ian Andrew

Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 08:15:37 PM »
Am I to understand that Harry Colt is not in the World Golf Hall of Fame?

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2010, 09:29:27 PM »
No Ian,

Neither Colt nor Allison, Flynn nor Toomey, Behr, Thomas, Thompson, Tillinghasy or anyone named Maxwell, Bell, Herbert Fowler or Strong, Seth Raynor; neither Stiles nor Van Kleek, neither Langford nor Moreau, nor Alex Findlay, Ralph Plummer, Ellis Maples, Donald Steel, Mike Stranz.... time to take a breath...

THAT is why this is so much bigger than Tom Bendelow... Look at my earlier post... Before 2005 the ONLY TWO ARCHITECTS enshrined in the Hall of Fame for their work as ARCHITECTS were Donald Ross and Robert Trent Jones Sr.! That is way beyond absurd... it is flat out wrong.

By not honoring the great architects who have created the great playing fields of the game we dishonor those we have honored because it lessens THEIR accomplishments!

It is time we recognize that those on golfclubatlas.com actually do have some pull in the REAL world of golf. Go to your clubs and COMPLAIN. Ask your club presidents to write a letter protesting the fact that maybe the guy who designed the course you so enjoy means nothing to the Golf Hall of Fame. How many times have you had an argument over how high a course is ranked or not? Aren't you really just talking about how great an architect is? So isn't it about time that your arguments reflect how these courses you're discussing, because of how wonderfully they've been designed, reflect on why their designer should be recognized and rememberred for having done so?

NOISE really does have a way of making some things to get noticed and some of those to be fixed.

For all of you ONLOOKERS who are not members; if you are a member of the USGA you should be ASHAMED...
If you are a member of the PGA of America you should be ASHAMED...
If you are a member of the PGA or any other professional Tour you should be ASHAMED...
If you are a member of the Golf Writers Association of America and have NOT written about this hypocrisy in very strong terms, you also should be ASHAMED...
If you are an INDUCTED MEMBER of the World Golf Hall of Fame you should be especially ASHAMED because these men that you have chosen to forget are the ones whose creations defined YOUR own greatness and you would not enjoy the lives you do without them.

And if, by chance, you are on the Lifetime Achievement Committee, one of the ones responsible for what has become a DELIBERATE passing over, not an "oversight" of any kind, you, most of all should be ASHAMED!

Golf, first and foremost, is a game of history and its history begins and ends with its architecture. Without the golf course there is no game. One can play basketball by nailing a milk carton to a tree. One can play football in the street with parked cars as out-of-bounds. Golf can NOT be played without a course and the greats players could never be without the great courses and their incredible creators.

It is time to honor those who have been ignored for far too long...

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2010, 10:14:49 PM »

Good Morning Philip

Have you something on your mind. Something that seems to be bugging you, then do not hold back, if its worth saying its worth saying loudly.

Why not ask Ran to add another heading The GCA Hall of Fame and forget the other. I would support all who have done a service to golf , but would exclude The Governing Bodies as of yet I am not certain we can say they have done anything good for the game.

I believe our Hall of Fame would be far more critical, plus accurate of their achievements.

Do not despair; resolve the problem first from within.

Melvyn

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2010, 02:52:54 AM »
Stuart Bendelow sent the story that started this thread to me the other day. I responded: "Looks like the WGHOF is a closed shop! Might not be worth getting into in that case."

It's too late in the night to look, but I don't know who's on the nominating committee, or on the selection committee, or if they're one in the same.

I know this. I'm one of about 20 members on the Illinois Golf Hall of Fame selection committee. We take our work extremely seriously. Every two years, worthy candidates don't make the Hall, because other worthy candidates garner more votes. But anyone in the world can nominate someone.

Tom Bendelow was nominated a few times back, and was elected to the Hall in 2005, on either the second or third go-round. Stuart gave a wonderful acceptance speech. Here's a link to the induction, the video summarizing his career, and Stuart's acceptance: http://www.illinoisgolfhof.org/members/member.aspx?id=80de48cb-b668-44e4-90a1-dacc70a73274
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2010, 10:05:04 AM »
Why does Tom Bendelow deserve induction into the WGHF? What were his greatest accomplishments?

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2010, 07:48:25 PM »
Jim Kennedy

iI  am with  you brother, but I  still hope your favorite guy,  Joe Unkwown, gets some love !
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 07:50:13 PM by mark chalfant »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2010, 08:04:15 PM »
Every sports Hall of Fame is based on votes by a bunch of writers who have scant perspective on the history of the game or the contributions of their elders.  They are just popularity contests, pure and simple.  Someone mounts a successful campaign and gets their candidate considered and voted in ... it proves nothing.

Golf architects were never considered for the Hall of Fame in days past and I think our importance to the game is overstated in the current era.  I'm not sure if we should be included at all, but as of now, the few who are there are token choices for the profession as a whole.

I don't really care if Justin Timberlake gets in and I don't.  But I did meet Dinah Shore 26 years ago at the ASGCA meeting in Palm Springs ... a very nice lady who loved golf ... and had you met her you would have voted for her. 

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2010, 10:16:13 PM »
Tom,

No doubt Dinah Shore did a lot for the game and deserves her place in the hall; just not before many of the great architects of the past. Now I'd probably vote for her before you...  ;)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 10:03:27 AM by Philip Young »

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2010, 08:38:15 AM »


We each have our heroes, some may have achieved far more or less than others but that does not diminish our enjoyment of their achievements. My reason for supporting many is down to having their deeds recorded.

Problem is that today it would seem that Design Houses are just too big or “Designers” have lost the ability of their predecessors to design a complete course by themselves. From what Tom Doak’s has mentioned the trend is to split the design and have different peoples working on different aspects. That’s my understand of Tom’s passed comments and perhaps explains why the spark seems to have been lost in many of the latest designs.

Unlike Tom, I feel the history of the game and that of the courses need to be know, their original designer(s) and all subsequence modification given reasons why and by whom. For a few seconds, the time taken to note the names we have a path leading back through the years of a man life and times. Its translates into his life’s work and it is all there for those who love his work to follow. Tom may have made the cut, his name will be remembered, but what about the others who still achieved, but not to the height of our Mr Doaks.

If we are going to have a history, then let’s have a history and record the life of the club which after all is around the golf course. Who knows what the future will hold, due to the size of a golf courses and the environmental cost future Governments might ban them in favour of fields of eatable crops  The Great Game of Golf to be in future played upon the small screen of an X-Box.

We need records for posterity and for no other reason than to shut up researchers who just sit upon their backside and do not go out into the fields to undertake a much closer study. Copies of books or’ Golf’ do not hold all the answers, hard and long hours of reading old local records is the main way forward as it also explains from time to time the reasons for the changes. There is also the added benefit of seeing the site of the course, be it now a housing estate, under a school, a ploughed field or allowed to return to its natural state.

The exhilaration of finding an old closed and/or lost golf course is so bitter yet sweet, bitter as the search is finished, sweet because you have achieved what you set out to find.

Mr Doak the record requires the name(s) of the individual(s) who designed the course. If it’s a composite design then say so and declare the participants confirming their responsibilities. If the guys who signed off the design did not participate in the actual site location, survey or design, just his name over the door of the Design House then that too should be declared.

If Golf is an open and honest game then we deserve the name of the course designers and how the work was broken down. Or have we moves so far away from the core roots of GCA that we no longer feel the need or for that matter want to honour the new designer(s).

Let’s have our heroes Mr Doaks, including you as we are mere humans and need inspiration from others, it’s what can keep us going through the hard times .

Take Golf away from nature and you no longer have a game called Golf – the guys in the 19th and  early 20th Century knew that seems that some of the latest GCA’s have forgotten it, still we want their names – more to keep them out of the hallowed Halls of Records.

Is it not part of the design and construction process ???

Melvyn


Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2010, 09:45:24 AM »
Mark,
'Unk' doesn't have a prayer.  ;)

A guy like TB belongs in that 'show', if for no other reason than this:

"City Park Golf Course is a museum curio, a reminder that golf design in the Roaring Twenties wasn't solely about showmen like Tillinghast and Mackenzie building courses for bankers and their flappers. City Park should be preserved precisely because it was created for the common man by the common man's golf course architect, Tom Bendelow...."

The quote is found in this article, which is mainly about saving a part of the cultural landscape in Baton Rouge.

http://tclf.org/stewards/lillie-petit-gallagher
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 09:52:04 AM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Bendelow being frozen out of World Golf Hall of Fame ?
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2010, 02:21:38 PM »
We're talking about a hall of "fame," and golf course architects are not, on the whole, particularly "famous" compared to professional golfers.

I'll admit that Tom Bendelow isn't a guy that I know that much about, and this thread has taught me a little. Certainly Tillinghast is a more famous architect, and he's not in there yet. Seems like halls'o'fame are more for reassuring us about what we already think we know than about educating and instructing us about the less-knowns that always have so much to do with history.

That said, I'm trying to think about what Bush's contributions to golf have been. Did I miss something? Seems like he played a little bit. And there's that famous clip of him on the tee talking about how the countries of the world must "stop these terrorist killers....... now watch this drive." A little unfair, perhaps, but...there it is. I guess he promoted golf,  by playing it. But is there something else that I'm just missing?
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

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