Bunkers - Flashes v. Fingers

[Jim_Coleman]

     I tried this in the Philly Cricket thread, but nobody bit.  So I'll ask here.  What's up with this modern (post '50's) phenomenon of building bunkers with grass fingers creating multiple places for under-the-lip lies?  Almost all the classic course have bunkers with flashes of sand - e.g. Merion, the Flynns, Oakmont, Augusta, Baltusral, Winger Foot etc.  The only classic courses with fingered bunkers that I have played (I suspect there are some others, but I don't know them) are the Thomas courses and Bethpage Black (and at Bethpage, Jones' new bunkers are much more fingered (and fake) than Tillies - e.g. #9).  I find fingered bunkers contrived.  Did R.T. Jones start this?  I must say, I like the classic way better, both aesthetically and from a playability/architectural view.

[Kyle Harris]

    I tried this in the Philly Cricket thread, but nobody bit.  So I'll ask here.  What's up with this modern (post '50's) phenomenon of building bunkers with grass fingers creating multiple places for under-the-lip lies?  Almost all the classic course have bunkers with flashes of sand - e.g. Merion, the Flynns, Oakmont, Augusta, Baltusral, Winger Foot etc.  The only classic courses with fingered bunkers that I have played (I suspect there are some others, but I don't know them) are the Thomas courses and Bethpage Black (and at Bethpage, Jones' new bunkers are much more fingered (and fake) than Tillies - e.g. #9).  I find fingered bunkers contrived.  Did R.T. Jones start this?  I must say, I like the classic way better, both aesthetically and from a playability/architectural view.

Winged Foot has fingers. See old pictures of #10 East. Huntingdon Valley had a number of fingers originally for similar reasons I'm sure. They still exist on the 4th and to a lesser extent the 16th.

They were implemented so golfers could walk directly to the green from the bunker.

Don't like under the lip lies? Don't hit it there.

Are there examples of in-land bunkers that aren't contrived?

I do agree, however, that they can be poorly implemented and made to look very "busy."

[JNagle]

Jim,

Hope all is well with you.  I will have to dig up the old photos of Indian Creek.  Crazy, naturally eroded look to the bunkers.  Of course that was in an all sand soil. 

Jim Nagle

[Jaeger Kovich]

WF as do other Tillinghast courses have fingers. How many under the lip lies to you think there are in the church pews at Oakmont?

I'm sure a lot of the increase comes from the change to machines.

[Jim_Coleman]

    The church pews are unique, and they are cool.  I'm not complaining that fingers are unfair, as I too pretty much believe there's no such thing as unfair; although they may be a little too penal sometimes, to use pc architectural talk.  I just think they look phony.  Look at the Sunningdale picture on the home page of this cite.  THOSE are attractive bunkers.  Fingers look best from blimp shots - not a valid aesthetic consideration, in my opinion.  Not saying I'm right, only that I don't like them; and if I were an architect, I'd never use them.  I'm entitled.
   
   Jim N: My offer still stands - I'm available for consultation at your beckon call.  I work for food and apparel.  BTW - everyone loves the stairs on #5 bunker!  Hope you're well.

[D_Malley]

Jim,
I thought the same thing when i was reading the Phila. Cricket thread. 
The Hurdsan/Fry course would be much better if the bunkers had more classic look and playability. 
The course always plays very firm and fast which i really like.

[Phil_the_Author]

JIm,

Tilly put fingers in the shapes of his bunkers from very earlyb on. He also did round simple ones, and copmbinations of everything in-between. His faces have grass all the way down, part way down and fully-flashed with sand.

In other words, there isn't a typical Tillinghast "Style" of bunker with thee xception, and thios is where the "fingers" come in that he wanted there to be as little flat areas in his bunkers as possible. he wabted the stance to challenge as much or more than the lie and depth.

[RSLivingston_III]

I was under the impression that most post 50's course work was to -remove- fingers/natural looking bunkers and install the oval splash bunkers. Yes, we are seeing some fingered/natural looking bunkers again, but it should be noted that they are in the minority. Most courses don't want the maintenence cost involved. Some are restorations.