TOC on mats

[Scott Macpherson]

HI,

The Links Trust has just notified us;

Fairway mats
Mats come into play on all courses from 1 November until 28 February and continue on the Old Course until 31 March. They will also be in use at The Castle Course in November 2010 and March 2011. Only mats provided by St Andrews Links may be used.
 
Preferred lies
Preferred lies will be in operation from 1 November until 30 April on all courses.


So, those playing the Old Course will from Nov 1st have to play off mats. The mats shall stay in use for 5 months.

I would be very interested to learn about the actual benefits of mats. Some questions I have are;

1- When were mats first introduced to TOC?
2- Why were they introduced?
3- How long were they in use for in that first year?
4- In the month when the course reopened to 'normal play', what was the condition of the course compared to the previous year on the same month?
5- Are mats in use for a longer period now?
6- How many rounds are played on TOC when mats are in use (NB- about 44,000 rounds are played each year on TOC)


I think they were first introduced in the winter preceding an Open Championship year. (If so, which Open?) I though it was to be a one-off, just to help ensure the course was in top condition for the Open. If that was the case, why is it now the case that they are introduced every year, and possibly for a longer period? Is the course really getting damaged that much by the mostly local golfers who lay the course through the winter?

Can we expect mats to be in use for 6 months next year? How about 7 months?

It seems the message we are getting from the Links Trust about winter golf in St Andrews "Don't play". Is this message the Home of Golf should be sending out?

I'll look forward to any comments.


regards,


Scott

[Sean_A]

Scott

I seem to recall mats being used to prepare for the 1995 Open.  I am not sure, but I think the mat scheme increased for the 2000 Open and then stayed in place thereafter.  I seem to recall cancelling a trip to St Andrews in winter 2000/01 because of the mats.  We are going next October specifically at a time when the course is properly open yet still on cheap rates. 

I think its a bad message to use mats at TOC and I won't play the course with mats no matter if its half price or not.  We tried mats at Pennard for two winters and the course was in much better nick for about a month in the spring, but it wasn't worth 4-5 months of mats so the club stopped it.  I was told that there was some research happening to find a better way to preserve links in the winter months when divots don't heal well because of temps and birds.

Ciao   

[Ally Mcintosh]

In my experience, most links courses do something in the winter because you don't repair fescue divot marks with the divots themselves and there is no growth.

This seems to fall in to three categories:

1. Mats
2. Drop in semi-rough to side of fairway
3. Divot bags

[Jamie Barber]

They are talking about doing the same at Prince's in key landing areas. TBH the fairways are very scrappy in places, so they need to do something, but of course we'd rather hit off grass.

I played TOC in a february in 2003 and we used mats. Well, we carried mats, I think most of the time we didn't actually bother to use them

[Dave Herrick]

I checked my old calendars, and it looks like I was there in late November (US Thanksgiving weekend) of 2000. I recall playing TOC on consecutive days , perhaps the 24th and 25th. The second day was the first day of required mat usage. Thus it appears that at some point in time since 2000 they have pushed mat usage to an earlier beginning date.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I played Royal Dublin in March a number of years ago, and we were told to lift off the fairway and drop in the semi-rough. I think it's the lesser of the two evils, as you are at least playing it off grass. Playing golf off mats (some can be 2 inch thick) isn't much fun.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I played Royal Dublin in March a number of years ago, and we were told to lift off the fairway and drop in the semi-rough. I think it's the lesser of the two evils, as you are at least playing it off grass. Playing golf off mats (some can be 2 inch thick) isn't much fun.

Plus it brings strategy / angles much more in to the equation - left or right etc...

[Adrian_Stiff]

The big problem is lots of golf versus no grass growth and whilst as an operator you want to provide a golf course in the best condition at all times, it is not possible when you are fighting the elements in the UK. Heights of cut have to come up on greens tees and fairways. We used mats for the first time last winter, it was much less unpopular than I thought it would be, the little mats are not too bad IMO, but you do get a handfull of absolute haters. Its a case of accepting winter golf has a fair bit of comprise. I think the mats will get used more and more thoughout the UK,especially as you go further north, you will keep the course in better nick and it just depends on how the club views its conditioning, do you want to extend the quaity of your summer period + mats or hack the fairways to pieces and have a more restricted better period. Clearly championship conditions at the better clubs have already decided their route.

[Niall C]

I've not played too many links courses that use mats although I know of a quite a few inland courses that do.

As an alternative to mats, Silloth use, or at least used to use, a system where a white line was put round obvious areas where the ball tended to gather and if your ball landed in it you moved it to a bit that wasn't in the restricted area.

At Glasgow Gailes they use the box system where the broad landing area, say 150 yards from the tee to 300 yards from the tee is marked off and a white line is drawn down the middle of the fairway. If your ball lands in the "box" you move your ball and play from the semi-rough. Which side you move it to depends on what side of the white line you've landed on.

Both methods have got to be better than playing of a mat. Hitting balls at a driving range is better than playing off a mat. Sad to see TOC on mats for that long. Would they not be better shutting the course for a couple of months like they used to do in olden days and keep the green fees up rather than reduced greenfees for playing off mats. I imagine that there would still be a net loss of income but at least the real TOC experience will remain intact.

Niall

[Tim_Weiman]

Ballybunion does it a little different. During winter months the procedure is to drop your ball in the rough to play second shots.

Fellow members don't seem to mind.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Niall the mats we use are about 1/2" thick, they are not too bad, a few people really like them because you get a lot of spin off them. There is no doubt in my mind you might put up with it at your own club but its a real detractor if you are playing perhaps your only game on TOC. In the UK golf courses are better for having fewer rounds in the winter, the thing to remember is foot traffic over any UK winter course is wearing it out and making it worse. Maybe the links trust feel its a great way to 'cull' the winter numbers. I know we have seriously thought of completely shutting the course on January 1st for two months. 90% of the people think its a great idea but the direhards are likely to join another club. I think move the ball to the semi to the left or right side of the fairways is a good idea too.

[Marty Bonnar]

Scott,
I've vented on this one before on here. FIVE freekin months out of twelve on mats on the supposedly PREMIERE Links Golf Course in the World. Propriety prevents me from writing what I am actually currently thinking.
Suffice to say, pathetic, really. What kind of message does the Links Trust think it's giving? Oh, wait a minute, the verb 'to think' implies some kind of sentient intelligence, doesn't it.
 
FBD.

[Niall C]

Adrian

In fairness the last time I played with a mat its tended to be the older type that curled up at the edges and felt like you were hitting off a shag pile carpet. I'm sure these days there are more modern mats that do a better job.

But as you say are you going to go and visit another course, pay a greenfee and then play off a mat ? I certainly wouldn't and don't know many that would. Maybe we should seriously think about closing courses for a couple of months, particularly if they are members clubs. Yes, I'm sure that you might lose a few members but I wonder how many you might gain in return for a course that was in better condition during the "playing" season ? Its also got to help with maintenance work I would have thought.

Niall

[PThomas]

playing TOC without being able to touch the grass with your club would be like making love to Dolly Parton without being able to touch her breasts

[Adrian_Stiff]

Scott,
I've vented on this one before on here. FIVE freekin months out of twelve on mats on the supposedly PREMIERE Links Golf Course in the World. Propriety prevents me from writing what I am actually currently thinking.
Suffice to say, pathetic, really. What kind of message does the Links Trust think it's giving? Oh, wait a minute, the verb 'to think' implies some kind of sentient intelligence, doesn't it.
 
FBD.

Marty - It is 5 months but you have got 5 months when that grass is not growing up there. The mats will help protect those fairways which I suspect is the biggest problem with the collection areas etc. The greens are huge and more capable of housing heavier winter play. You could close for 5 months or use the mats and have 'second quality play/reduced fee'. You get to choose how you spend your dollars, they are upfront about it, if you dont like it you dont play or you target your golf into the better 7 months. Has the quality of TOC  fairways gotten better over the last 10-15 years, if yes then it might just be intellegent thinking after all. They must cull winter rounds and its not a bad way IMO.

[Richard Choi]

playing TOC without being able to touch the grass with your club would be like making love to Dolly Parton without being able to touch her breasts

I would do the latter over former any day!

[PThomas]

playing TOC without being able to touch the grass with your club would be like making love to Dolly Parton without being able to touch her breasts

I would do the latter over former any day!

agreed!

I have never done the former, but if you told me right now that you'd pay all my expenses to go over there to play now, off the mats, I'd decline

[Scott Macpherson]

Hi,

Marty, it is easy to be very frustrated about this, but that wasn't the reason for my thread. I am interested to learn about how we got to the current situation. I am unaware of the Links Trust sharing the data they must have to justify the use of mats.

It does surprise me that the locals are not more demonstrative about the situation. Perhaps it means they agree with the use of mats for the late autumn, winter and early spring period?

Golf Courses have never been museums pieces to me. They are there to be played. I doubt there are 5,000 rounds played on TOC from Dec- March, so the damage would be very limited, and able to overcome in the spring. By all means, close the courses when it is frosty or frozen, but if they are open, then let them be played. On the years when the Open Championship in on TOC, then there is some justification to close the course in the weeks before the event, but perhaps the alternative is to keep the course open in that last month, but use mats? (Note- I liked the way the course was kept open in 2007 for the Women's British Open up until the week before.... and the course looked the best I had ever seen it.

The precedent the Links Trust are setting by extending the use is potentially disastrous to the game. Many country's around the world look to St Andrews for direction, and if those course start employing the use of mats then the players could, imaginably, start leaving the game.

Anyway, enough doom and gloom, what I would like to invite the Links Trust to do is share with us the benefits of mats. Perhaps justify their reasons for using mats.  There must be some?


scott

 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Hi,

Marty, it is easy to be very frustrated about this, but that wasn't the reason for my thread. I am interested to learn about how we got to the current situation. I am unaware of the Links Trust sharing the data they must have to justify the use of mats.

It does surprise me that the locals are not more demonstrative about the situation. Perhaps it means they agree with the use of mats for the late autumn, winter and early spring period?

Golf Courses have never been museums pieces to me. They are there to be played. I doubt there are 5,000 rounds played on TOC from Dec- March, so the damage would be very limited, and able to overcome in the spring. By all means, close the courses when it is frosty or frozen, but if they are open, then let them be played. On the years when the Open Championship in on TOC, then there is some justification to close the course in the weeks before the event, but perhaps the alternative is to keep the course open in that last month, but use mats? (Note- I liked the way the course was kept open in 2007 for the Women's British Open up until the week before.... and the course looked the best I had ever seen it.

The precedent the Links Trust are setting by extending the use is potentially disastrous to the game. Many country's around the world look to St Andrews for direction, and if those course start employing the use of mats then the players could, imaginably, start leaving the game.

Anyway, enough doom and gloom, what I would like to invite the Links Trust to do is share with us the benefits of mats. Perhaps justify their reasons for using mats.  There must be some?


scott

 

Scott - Read my posts,it explains the reasons, but quite simply grass in the UK in the winter is virtually dormant.

[TEPaul]

If they want to protect the turf they should either limit play in the winter or close the course. Those may not be their considerations, though, because obviously it doesn't make as much money as keeping play unlimited and using mats. Requiring the use of mats through the green is one of the worst ideas in golf I've ever heard of.

[Scott Macpherson]

Adrian,

I did read you posts.

I live 'up there', I am a links ticket holder, a member of a local Club, and have studied TOC and have a degree in agronomy. With all respect, I understand the issues. What I am asking is that the Links Trust come forward and share the information that has led them to making the decisions they have. I am not sure it is as cut and dried as you make it sound. And, there is no indication that the marching out of the 'mat culture' will stop. Their latest course has not yet even seen a winter.

With your background I would have thought you would like to see the Links Trust share their position too?

Let's not make any assumptions, or be defenders for a well funded and influential organisation.

Thanks for taking part in the thread though.  

scott

[Adrian_Stiff]

TeP - Winter times in the UK make it very hard to have nice conditions. Some courses when it is frosty or very wet close their greens and you play to a 5 metre mown diameter temporary green on the fairway. The golfers want to get out, have a walk and a bit of golf, but its generally understood conditions wont be so great. Links courses have drier greens and probably a fair bit of play because of. The mats allow golf, without there may be no golf or much more volume restricted. Its just making the best out of a problem. Its an idea that is certain to grow, a course can stay open and take money with wet fairways.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Scott - I bought your very good book, I thought you were from Australia for some reason. I dont know what percentage of clubs use mats for the tees in the winter but I am guessing only 25% dont have at least one and perhaps 25% of courses have all 18, so UK clubs are kinda use to mats. I think the fairways on the old course have dramtically improved since 1978 when if you look at videos they seemed pretty rough, all fairways have improved probably, we rarely gang mow now in favour of cutting with what often amounts to 5 unit greens mowers. I think the modern methods make for better roll and the collection areas throw the ball faster to those areas. I cant any data that the Links trust could provide could be scientific, its just a case of reducing the divot damage.

[Sean_A]

I think part of the issue is the concept of summer being the time when the course is at its peak and winter its worst.  IMO links clubs should be trying to level that out as much as is possible.  The first thing in accomplishing this is to not stress the greens in summer.  Keepem' longer than optimal for best play and accept that this will make them more playable in winter - its a trade off.  Golf in GB&I is a 12 month ordeal so clubs need to think in terms of 12 month play.  I can see no reason why well managed links can't be open all year round. 

Ciao

[TEPaul]

Adrian:

Did you know that original golf in Scotland---I guess before say the middle of the 19th century was essentially a winter game. The reason why that was the case back then should be fairly apparent given some historic consideration to the way we think of things and do things now compared to the way they had to do things back then.