[John Shimp]

I reviewed the main Dixie Cup thread a while ago and noticed that most of the discussion centered on Carolina Golf Club in Charlotte.
A great place and wonderful course.  I was wondering if there were reactions or pictures to the other courses that were played?
I think the other 3 are all quite different and wanted to hear others views. 

A quick overview:

Charlotte CC:  Ross course, long, expansive property for a city course, demanding greens and bunkers, recently redone by Ron Prichard
Carolina Golf Club:  Ross course, great use of features on a tight property, one 5-star par 3, fun, recently redone by Kris Spence
Gaston:  Ellis Maples, much tougher from longer tees, some trouble off the tee, good greens, recently redone by Kris Spence
Mimosa Hills:  Ross course, Billy Joe Patton legacy, hilly, great variety in the holes, recently redone by Kris Spence

[Bill_McBride]

10, 11, 12 and 14 at Mimosa could use some work with the old chainsaw!  It's a fun course.  Loved the halfway house up on the hill behind #9 green, by the driving range and 10th tee.  "Delightfully non-pretentious."

[JC Jones]

John,

I only played Charlotte and Carolina (one of the downsides to being local was more difficulty in getting clearance from she who must be obeyed).

After having walked CCC with my daughter during the Women's Am I was very excited to play CCC and was not let down.  Though I did not see CCC prior to the restoration, during the round, Nolan did a great job explaining each and every change and why it was made on the golf course.  What particularly impressed me was the use of the creek valleys on the front 9 and similarly the up and down nature of the terrain, generally, in a way that avoided monotony and presented a different challenge on each hole.  I also think the bunker placement, throughout the course, is very strategic without seeming contrived.

The scale of CCC very much surprised me during the Women's Am because of it's location in an urban residential area.  It has the feel of a championship venue and the course, if played way back to some of those back tees, is capable of being a championship test.

[Jamey Bryan]

I'm not sure this is what you're looking for, but here are my responses (I'm still mulling as I previously said):

Charlotte:  A big brawny, but strategic course that demanded that you hit a good shot every time you stood over the ball.  Recovery shots were available, but if you missed, you needed to hit an exceptional shot to recover.  Not penal, as I define it, but a fine test of every aspect of your game.  Especially from the back tees, I think this is a truly championship track.

Gaston:  An excellent every day course with quasi-championship challenge (sort of like Camden).  Doesn't have the length to stand up to the flat bellies, but the greens and other strategy will make it a test every day for anyone.

Mimosa Hills:  I want to take Camden members there to see what will happen if we're not vigilant on tree management and maintenance practices.  Don't get me wrong......   I absolutely love the course (it might have been the second best layout we played) but the trees and the green surrounds took much away from the bones of the course.

Don't take too much from any "negative" in the above, it was a great weekend with truly great courses.

Jamey

[Ed Oden]

John, I suspect the discussion focused more on Carolina because it was the last course we played.  So it was fresh on everyone's mind when they started posting after the event.  I hope that guys will chime in with their thoughts on the other courses as well.  In the meantime, I think I am safe in saying that all of the courses were very well received.  In particular, Charlotte CC was fantastic.  We had a much smaller group there, but I think those who were fortunate to play the course loved it.  Gaston was a pleasant surprise.  I don't believe many of the guys knew much about it prior to the event and my impression is that it exceeded their expectations.  And Mimosa is just a neat, charming place.  The only negative comments I've heard are that it could use some further tree removal and a few maintenance tweaks.  At the end of the day, I think all the courses came out winners.

[Mike Hamilton]

I'm not sure this is what you're looking for, but here are my responses (I'm still mulling as I previously said):

Charlotte:  A big brawny, but strategic course that demanded that you hit a good shot every time you stood over the ball.  Recovery shots were available, but if you missed, you needed to hit an exceptional shot to recover.  Not penal, as I define it, but a fine test of every aspect of your game.  Especially from the back tees, I think this is a truly championship track.

Gaston:  An excellent every day course with quasi-championship challenge (sort of like Camden).  Doesn't have the length to stand up to the flat bellies, but the greens and other strategy will make it a test every day for anyone.

Mimosa Hills:  I want to take Camden members there to see what will happen if we're not vigilant on tree management and maintenance practices.  Don't get me wrong......   I absolutely love the course (it might have been the second best layout we played) but the trees and the green surrounds took much away from the bones of the course.

Don't take too much from any "negative" in the above, it was a great weekend with truly great courses.

Jamey

Mostly in agreement and definitely agree with Ed that all the courses were great...I would love to play any of them regularly.

On Charlotte, which was indeed fantastic, I think I would emphasize your comment that the course was not at all penal.  The fairways were wide and the course allowed for recovery shots (even if they needed to be exceptional).  Some bunkers were tough...but you could generally play away with decent shots.  However, it seemed to me though that the risk / reward element was strongest at Charlotte.  To put yourself in a good position on greens required good shotmaking...otherwise you needed a good day with the flatsick.  So I would give it high marks for probably being a good test for better golfers, but still fun for the very average golfer (me).

[rjsimper]

Gaston-

A very nice golf course...a great walk and some very fun and challenging shots to hit. I thought the approaches to 6 and 10 were very cool visuals for these short par 4s. 3 and 15 were a pair of excellent long par 4s. I have always been an Ellis Maples fan. I did not think the course was overly challenging as a general rule. There were definitely some challenging spots - the pin on 11, for one...but with a set of relatively reachable par 5s I think scoring here is a real possibility. Very nicely conditioned.

Mimosa-

I preferred Mimosa a bit over Gaston...fractionally, but still clearly. I thought there was more challenge around the greens than at Gaston. Could it use some tree clearing? Absolutely. From the tips, the tee shot on 12 is definitely an adventure. 11 is no picnic either, with a fairway that pushes tee shots right and trees overhanging that side of the green. The devil's advocate side of me says that the 12th hole is par 5 that plays about 475...an arborial defense is not entirely uncalled for. To me what stood out about Mimosa is the par 3s. I think that this was an incredible set of par 3s - each one has its own character and challenges. I think that the 2nd hole could be improved by being 275 from the tips, 240-250 from the members tees. Straight uphill with all sorts of challenges. At 330, it's kind of a "no man's land" par 4.

Charlotte-

As others have said, a big, stout test. I played on a different day from the rest of the group, and played from 7100 yards. Couple this with the pin placements being set for a big tournament the club was hosting...start to finish, the pins were....creative. Some were just good, old-fashioned tough. A few were questionable. While this made the greens really have some bite, it was actually fun to play to some of these spots. The greens were adventurous, and I think more than any other course, the pin placement and the greens really dictated how you play the shot or two before you arrive at the green. I can see why the course is pursuing USGA tournaments - beautiful clubhouse and facilities as well.


All three courses were nicely conditioned, all three courses were enjoyable to play. Big fan.

[Joel Zuckerman]

I thought all 4 venues were superb, with excellent conditioning and super--quick greens.  (A bit slower at Charlotte CC) The course that best fit my eye was Gaston CC, and it's hard to put a finger as to exactly why. I really liked the 10th in particular, though I thought the whole GC was pretty stellar.
Mimosa was quite tough, with the gnarly rough, false fronts and odd little green collars that disrupted the chipping or bump-and-run game.  Carolina CC was great all around, and so was Charlotte...and the single most impressive aspect of the whole trip?  The patio--men's locker room--19th hole--grill room combination at Charlotte, complete with one of the hottest steam rooms you'll ever encounter.  Whatever they antied up for their CC renovation, that area of the operation benefited greatly from money well spent!

[Carl Johnson]

I thought all 4 venues were superb, with excellent conditioning and super--quick greens.  (A bit slower at Charlotte CC) The course that best fit my eye was Gaston CC, and it's hard to put a finger as to exactly why. I really liked the 10th in particular, though I thought the whole GC was pretty stellar.
Mimosa was quite tough, with the gnarly rough, false fronts and odd little green collars that disrupted the chipping or bump-and-run game.  Carolina CC was great all around, and so was Charlotte...and the single most impressive aspect of the whole trip?  The patio--men's locker room--19th hole--grill room combination at Charlotte, complete with one of the hottest steam rooms you'll ever encounter.  Whatever they antied up for their CC renovation, that area of the operation benefited greatly from money well spent!

Joel, I believe there is some debt at CCC, but they will handle it, no question.  It is "The Club" in Charlotte.  Which leads me to the next point, which is the thread relationships.  There was one about Brad Klein and GolfWeek course rankings, and the question of whether the play of the hole should be obvious.http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46379.0/  I looked at the article, and that raised more questions, such as, "What really comes into play in course rankings."  If you read Brad's five points, it looks like more than architecture is considered.  Then there was JC Jones' post/question about how factors other than architecture might come into play into course rankings    http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46351.0/  All three of these threads, via your comment, come together.  There is a world of difference between CCC, CGC, Mimosa, and Gaston from the "country club" standpoint, but these are different "clubs" in different towns and with difference constituencies.  Vive la difference from a golf standpoint.  Comments?

[Cory Lewis]

My two sense:

Charlotte:  Greens had a different look from the standard Ross greens, more tiers and distinct slopes.  I remember thinking it's the type of course you could never get bored playing because pin positions completely change how a hole is played. I was especially impressed by the holes that were created by Pritchard.  They both blended in well with the rest of the course.

Gaston:  The par 3's were very strong.  I would like to see a little more variety in the yardage. I hit hybrid, driver, hybrid, and 5 wood.  At least one of them would make a very good short par 3 IMO.

Mimosa Hills:  Greens were more typical Ross.  They were particularly challenging.  Everyone in my group putted off the green at least once.  Like others have said the back nine would really benefit from tree removal.  The course starts out with 4 warm up holes out in the open before hitting the hills and wooded areas.

Carolina:  I can't really say anything new that hasn't already been said.  I really enjoyed the experience of playing the course and thought the course was very strong, no weak holes.  3 is one of the toughest and most fun par 3's I've ever played.

[Roger Wolfe]

 It is "The Club" in Charlotte.  

I would have to say Charlotte CC might be "the club" in Charlotte...

but Quail Hollow is "THE CLUB"

[JC Jones]

 It is "The Club" in Charlotte.  

I would have to say Charlotte CC might be "the club" in Charlotte...

but Quail Hollow is "THE CLUB"

Yes, but only one has Roger Wolfe at the helm!!!!  That would make CGC "Le Club."

[John Shimp]

To Roger's post on Charlotte CC vs Quail Hollow's in town stature, there are different types of members, styles, and cultures at the 2 clubs.  Not all the members at one of the clubs would fit the other which is a good thing as it allows more choice.   Neither club feels that it is second fiddle to the other.

As far as golf course style and playing character, there is a lot of difference there as well.  That said, from the back tees they are definetely the 2 strongest courses in town.  The new Carmel South course being reworked by Rees Jones will certainly factor in once it is done in terms of difficulty/brawniness.

[Roger Wolfe]

To Roger's post on Charlotte CC vs Quail Hollow's in town stature, there are different types of members, styles, and cultures at the 2 clubs.  Not all the members at one of the clubs would fit the other which is a good thing as it allows more choice.   Neither club feels that it is second fiddle to the other.

As far as golf course style and playing character, there is a lot of difference there as well.  That said, from the back tees they are definetely the 2 strongest courses in town.  The new Carmel South course being reworked by Rees Jones will certainly factor in once it is done in terms of difficulty/brawniness.

I agree with John.  Both Charlotte and Quail are very different.  I love Carolina Golf Club but the sheer acreage of both Charlotte and Quail are amazing.  The severity of both club's greens are very similar too.  I do admire the course at Charlotte, however, for remaining true to their classic architecture.  Restoring (Pritchard) instead of rebuilding (Fazio) was a stroke of genius and really separated them from becoming "Quail East."  I also
applaud Carmel for realizing there wasn't a whole lot worth restoring.  Instead of holding on to two OK courses... they have kept one and basically built a brand new monster.  I think having a great course and an OK course is a much better strategy then having two pretty good ones.  We will see how the new ones turns out... early reviews are extremely positive.  Charlotte is a lucky town to be blessed with so many great, but different, facilities.

I alway describe CGC vs Charlotte using the "ball example."  Imagine CGC laid out across a volleyball.  Now blow that volleyball up to the size of a beach ball and you have Charlotte CC.  Wider fairways... more distance between the trees... etc....  It's tough to compete with such a beautiful piece of land.

[Matt MacIver]

I noticed that I used my 5-wood from just off the green often at Carolina but had no occassion to do so at either Mimosa or Gaston.  Maybe I just wasn't in the right positions at the other courses...or the lies were a little thinner at Carolina?  Either way, I really like courses that give me that type of option.  I guess where I use it most is in severe uphill "hanging" lies, which CGC has in spades. 

I have always considered CGC a very easy walking course.  But after playing Gaston and Mimosa, CGC was slightly tougher - certainly not impossible and one I would want to do a few days a week until I was 90, but the others were easier walks IMO even though the elevation changes seemed about the same.  But I do like the way the individual holes use the hills more / better at CGC....

Also, I loved the routing and flow of Gaston, and loved the variety of par 3s (distance, direction and uphill/downhill) at Mimosa. 

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