Trump in Scotland

[David_Tepper]

Jason Hines -

Unfortunately, the BBC video i-player is only available online when you are in Britain.

DT

[Jason Hines]

Jason Hines -

Unfortunately, the BBC video i-player is only available online when you are in Britain.

DT

David,

Thanks for the tip. 

[Brian_Ewen]

For those outside the UK , use a proxy site.

[Richard Phinney]

Richard Phinney,
it's that sort of selective misquoting that I find rather sad about this discussion group.
thanks,
Martin.

Sorry about that Marty, I know your overall message was thoughtful and balanced, and mine should have been as well.  It's just that I've become sensitive to the fact that what Mr Trump says tends to get repeated in the media (and elsewhere) and then is sort of accepted as fact even though journalists, in particular, have made little attempt to discover the truth. And its certainly hurtful for the homeowners to see themselves parodied in this manner on a global basis.  They have friends and family too and have done nothing to deserve it.

So apologies once again. 

[Marty Bonnar]

Apology happily accepted. You, sir, are a true gent.
Please know I am thoroughly on your side as to the overall intent of both of our inputs to this thread!
cheers,
MB.

PS It is not unknown for me to be totally full of shite on occasion. Just ask Nancy!

[Bob_Huntley]

MB

"PS It is not unknown for me to be totally full of shite on occasion. Just ask Nancy!"


How true

Bob

[Niall C]

Ally

Re your post #71. With respect, I think your missing the point when you say that with care there will be lots of SSSI left unspoiled. That sounds a lot like that if they are not careful they will ruin a lot more SSSI than they already are doing which isn't much of a consolation. I think at least from you first line you acknowledge that they have oodles of room to avoid the SSSI yet chose not to because they wanted to use the more spectacular land. Hard to prejudge what the final course will look like, you have seen the routing, I have not but I have walked through those dunes and in its natural state it really is spectacular. A truly special place. I wouldn't however say that the parts that I saw had naturally formed holes. There would need to be a fair bit of reshaping, and then you turf it etc and before you know it what made it special in the first place has gone.

I would also suggest that big dunes don't necessarily make a great course. More often its the flatter sites that produce the best golf. One thing though I totally agree with you on is when you mention the "slow" growing lichen and allude (I think) to the fact that mother nature is more robust than we give credit to.

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

I would go one stage further and say that there are enough good shapers about to be able to create spectacular dunes of any size and Mr. Trump has enough money to finance it. Why not leave the natural dunes alone and create new ones for the course to wander through?
Jon

[Alister Matheson]

I would go one stage further and say that there are enough good shapers about to be able to create spectacular dunes of any size and Mr. Trump has enough money to finance it. Why not leave the natural dunes alone and create new ones for the course to wander through?
Jon

Hi Jon ,
           With respect i think it would take years and years of carting in sand from a few quarries and dozens of shapers to model a course HALF the size/scale of the dunes they already have !  In time they supposedly will make a second course on the land you think they should use NOW !

The reality of the situation is he owns the land/links/dunes has planning and is building the course we could all debate endlessly reasons for /against ectectect...........  Donald Trump would l never have purchased the links if he had to spend years carting in Millions upon millions of tons of sand from quarries to replicate /copy what he already owns .

Cheers Alister

[Jon Wiggett]

Alister,

Donald Trump only bought the land because of the dunes. It was not that he just happened to have the land and thought a golf course might be a swell idea as your post seems to imply. Having worked in the golf course construction industry for quite a few years I can assure that it would take a year and only a few shapers to create dunes on a similar scale. You do not have to use sand to replicate dunes, you can use all sorts of material and just cap it.

Although your argument is correct for the present time it wasn't correct when this project was first thought of. I still hold that my argument is correct. I for one think that SSSIs should be treated with care and respect.

Jon

[Alister Matheson]

Alister,

Donald Trump only bought the land because of the dunes. It was not that he just happened to have the land and thought a golf course might be a swell idea as your post seems to imply. Having worked in the golf course construction industry for quite a few years I can assure that it would take a year and only a few shapers to create dunes on a similar scale. You do not have to use sand to replicate dunes, you can use all sorts of material and just cap it.

Although your argument is correct for the present time it wasn't correct when this project was first thought of. I still hold that my argument is correct. I for one think that SSSIs should be treated with care and respect.

Jon

Hi Jon
         I agree with your first point "Donald Trump only bought the land because of the dunes. It was not that he just happened to have the land and thought a golf course might be a swell idea as your post seems to imply." I CERTAINLY DID NOT MEAN TO IMPLY THAT HE JUST HAPPEND TO HAVE THE LAND.

      I also completley agree, you could cart in anything  to build the guts of the  dunes but lets agree to disagree on the timescale, ive worked in golf course construction aswell and can assure you it would take years to transport the volumes of what ever you want  in to duplicate the HUGE dunescape there.

Cheers Alister

[Jon Wiggett]

Alistair,

on a sloping site with a few 75 ton 360s you might be suprised how quickly you might create the illusion of such dunes but I understand where you are coming from.

Jon

[Jud_T]

clubhouse design revealed.  typically understated...

[Niall C]

In fairness Jud, the architect is at least nodding towards the local vernacular but as for making it understated, how exactly do you do that with something on that scale !

Niall

[Mark Chaplin]

Tee times available from 1st July 2012 at £150 mid week and £200 weekends.....punchy!!

[Tom Kelly]

I've just seen the BBC program and the way the Trump's acted throughout the process made me feel quite sick, they seemed to think it was okay to makes jokes about peoples homes and lives. They should be ashamed of themselves.

The program points to the argument and real moral issues being about the real estate and not so much the golf course. It is purely about money which seems to boil down to the view from Trumps hotel. If Trump was there for the golf like he says he is, then he could easily build a magnificent golf course, clubhouse and a few lodges/houses and be done with it. A 'Barnbougle Dunes' in Scotland that could be exceptional, instead he is simply succumbing to greed.

I feel really sorry for Martin Hawtree, he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Probably the best piece of land he will ever work on and The Trump family.

But who could say no to that land?!

[Jon Wiggett]

Thomas,

I believe this piece of land was rejected by atleast one other developer.

The clubhouse looks more like a railway station building than the average clubhouse in Aberdeenshire

Jon

[Ally Mcintosh]

I don't really like the look of the new clubhouse but Niall is right... Aberdeen is after all the Granite City...

The £150 / £200 price tag is a little more than I expected (only a little) but what is especially disappointing is the Aberdeen locals rate of £120 / £160...

Castle Stuart has had enough criticism with its £150 / £90 SGU / £50 Locals rate structure and this surpasses it by a distance...

There are new photographs up in the "gallery" section of the website, quite a few of 13 and 14 fully turfed...

http://www.trumpgolfscotland.com/

[Mark Chaplin]

Whatever you think of Trump it looks like Hawtree has gone a good job on stunning land.

[Anthony Gray]

  I think its great for that area.

  Anthony

[Niall C]

Thomas

Money is bound to be the main motivator if not the only motivator for Trump and I don't see why that should necessarily be a bad thing. At the end of the day Trump is a commercial organisation which by the way develops property so there's no good reason for some to only now waken up to the fact that this is not a golf development, its a major property development on greenfield land.

I've opposed this from the outset but can't honestly blame the developer who is only doing what he does. Its the shameful way that the politicians from local and national level have fallen for some out right nonsense to justify the development. Absolutely shameful.

To give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt, the golf course obviously means a lot to him and I can understand why he wanted to build a course when he saw a great bit of land. Its just a shme he did because its no longer the great bit of land it was. As for the hotel, well Turnberry and Gleneagles are probably of similar scale and while you can't say you don't notice them, the fact they have been there for ions makes them look like they belong. No doubt that will happen to Trumps B&B.

Niall

[Alister Matheson]

clubhouse design revealed.  typically understated...

                                                                                              

                                                       If thats the size off the clubhouse the hotel must be monsterous !

[Scott Weersing]

I don't really like the look of the new clubhouse but Niall is right... Aberdeen is after all the Granite City...

The £150 / £200 price tag is a little more than I expected (only a little) but what is especially disappointing is the Aberdeen locals rate of £120 / £160...

Castle Stuart has had enough criticism with its £150 / £90 SGU / £50 Locals rate structure and this surpasses it by a distance...

There are new photographs up in the "gallery" section of the website, quite a few of 13 and 14 fully turfed...

http://www.trumpgolfscotland.com/

I thought the days of sodding a course were long over. But there is no doubt that those holes were sodded with fescue (maybe another type of grass) grown somewhere else. What was the last course that was sodded?

One clue that the course was sodded were the square tee boxes.

I cannot really tell if the course is worth playing from just two holes. Yes, the tall dunes look interesting but no course final ranking is determined by the background.

[archie_struthers]

 

Some of the push here to stay away from the dunes seems strangely incongruous to this site. How many here have eschewed faux dunes that people build , but now are pushing for the same???


If you don't use the best land for golf, you aren't doing your job as golf course developer builder. Trump surely covets being the "man" in golf as in his life. Not all his recent golf  purchases make a whole lot of economic sense, at least to me.

If you are environmentally opposed to this construction , would you also have protested when Royal County Down was built??  If not you can dislike Trump for his personality and bluster, but not for his design instincts relative to this project.

[Sean_A]

Archie

Some sites should be left alone and IMO this site qualified as one.  That has nothing to do with The Donald (though I do think he and his team have acted despicably) and everything to do with how planning permission was granted.  This entire deal smells of something rotten.  Bottom line, we have plenty of courses and for that matter plenty of other sites for housing developments.  What we don't have is plenty of sites like these links.  Trying to compare what was the norm when Co Down was built and now is silly.

Ciao