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Brian_Ewen

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Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2010, 11:56:51 AM »


  Trumops course will eventually grow on people.Much like Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart which were created by Americans.The course and accomidations will overcome any jealosy people have for Trumps success and creativity.

   Anthony



Ar ye pissed ?

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2010, 12:00:04 PM »
If only he could call it “Balmedie Golf Club” instead of “Trump International Golf Links”…. It might make all the world of difference.

Thanks for the update Ally .

Pedantic I know, but the course is not called Trump International Golf Links, its the Great Dunes of Scotland.

No seriously it is !

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2010, 12:16:33 PM »
Wow. Thanks for the update Ally!

Also on the name change Brian! I hadn't heard that, so I looked it up and found an article where Trump goes on to say:

If I was being arrogant I'd name them the 'Donald J Trump Special Dunes'.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2989242/Donald-Trump-blasted-after-renaming-famous-Scottish-sand-dunes.html#ixzz14KZyObmC

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2010, 12:28:21 PM »
I think that's what he's calling the site, rather than the golf course itself.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2010, 08:14:50 PM »
For those in the business .... necessary or intimidation ?

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1993305?UserKey=
Meanwhile, David Milne, who is one of several homeowners who has refused to sell his land to make way for the golf resort development, recently met with planning officials from Aberdeenshire Council after a 100ft by 20ft mound of earth appeared behind his house at Hermit Point.

Anthony Gray

Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2010, 08:23:06 PM »


  Trumops course will eventually grow on people.Much like Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart which were created by Americans.The course and accomidations will overcome any jealosy people have for Trumps success and creativity.

   Anthony



I don't think ascribing unstated motives to the critics, particularly without addressing their substantive objectives, will do anything to further the conversation.  The accusation rings hollow in any event, as their are far more successful and creative people in the world than Donald Trump, and most of the people here critical of Trump are not critical of, say, Gates, Buffett, Jobs, Walton, Zuckerburg, etc.  That having been said, those people (some of which have their own flaws) do not use tactics from the Sopranos and Sons of Anarchy in order to acquire land, and -- perhaps as much of a moral crime to many here -- they do not incorrectly rate themselves a golf architecture prodigy.

Trump is (to some degree, like Branson) who he is - a marketer with one brand whose value-added has always been on the marketing side rather than the product side.  There's no need to ascribe improper motives to anyone in order to figure out why they may think this approach is inconsistent with quality (or ethical) golf architecture.

  Trump is the owner/developer not the architect.

Anthony


J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2010, 08:55:35 PM »


  Trumops course will eventually grow on people.Much like Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart which were created by Americans.The course and accomidations will overcome any jealosy people have for Trumps success and creativity.

   Anthony





I don't think ascribing unstated motives to the critics, particularly without addressing their substantive objectives, will do anything to further the conversation.  The accusation rings hollow in any event, as their are far more successful and creative people in the world than Donald Trump, and most of the people here critical of Trump are not critical of, say, Gates, Buffett, Jobs, Walton, Zuckerburg, etc.  That having been said, those people (some of which have their own flaws) do not use tactics from the Sopranos and Sons of Anarchy in order to acquire land, and -- perhaps as much of a moral crime to many here -- they do not incorrectly rate themselves a golf architecture prodigy.

Trump is (to some degree, like Branson) who he is - a marketer with one brand whose value-added has always been on the marketing side rather than the product side.  There's no need to ascribe improper motives to anyone in order to figure out why they may think this approach is inconsistent with quality (or ethical) golf architecture.

  Trump is the owner/developer not the architect.

Anthony



Yes, but part of the criticism leveled at Trump in this and other recent threads was him making architectural decisions, and I was referring to that.  
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 09:00:04 PM by Justin Sadowsky »

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2010, 08:02:43 PM »
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2004426?UserKey=

Documenting Trump’s golf dream among the dunes
But BBC film team also highlights families caught up in nightmare of compulsory purchase threat
By Ryan Crighton
Published: 11/11/2010

US BILLIONAIRE Donald Trump was so confident he would get permission for his £750million golf resort in Aberdeenshire that he told his architects their plans would be approved – before they were even drawn up.

In a documentary to be screened across Scotland next week, he talks about his passion for his mother’s Scottish homeland – and for his proposals at the Menie Estate, near Aberdeen.

The film follows Mr Trump, his development team and his family as they fought to win planning permission for “the world’s greatest golf course”.

Viewers will see the businessman tell his design team in April 2006 to be ambitious and to do things they would normally not put forward – because the plans were going to be “approved”.

“We have an opportunity to do things I think nobody else would be able to get,” he said.

“And certain things you may say, ‘don’t do them’ – just do them. That’s what I want you to do because we are going to get it approved. OK.”

The plans were rejected 18 months later by Aberdeenshire Council’s infrastructure committee – led then by councillor Martin Ford – before being called in and approved by the Scottish Government.
Mr Ford tells how he felt “lynched” by the media following his decision to reject the plans after the committee’s split vote.

The documentary also shows impassioned pleas from threatened local residents who fear that compulsory purchase orders (CPOs) would be used to clear them from their homes.

Among them are David and Moira Milne, of Hermit Point, who own one of four homes which Mr Trump has been allowed to add to his plans, even though they have vowed never to sell to the developer.

“It’s not just a house – it’s a home,” a tearful Mrs Milne says. “It’s like our baby because it has grown with us. We have extended it and we have done it ourselves.

“And to think somebody can come along with a lot of money . . . and it’s gone. Our heart is in there – we don’t have children and it’s our life.”
Michael and Molly Forbes speak of their attachment to their home, at Mill of Menie, which has been in the family for generations.

Mr Trump’s late mother, Mary MacLeod, emigrated from the Western Isles to New York, marrying Fred Trump in 1936. Donald Trump says the creation of his golf resort is a tribute to her.
His sister, Maryanne Trump Barry, joined him on a flight to Lewis in 2008 when they visited their Hebridean relatives. She says: “As we landed I took his hand and said ‘welcome home’. I was very moved by it. He was so quiet – I knew that he was as moved as I was.”

The TV programme, Donald Trump’s Golf War, produced by Aberdeen-based Midas Media, will be broadcast on BBC2 at 9pm on Monday.

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2010, 08:34:59 PM »


  Trumops course will eventually grow on people.Much like Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart which were created by Americans.The course and accomidations will overcome any jealosy people have for Trumps success and creativity.

   Anthony



I don't think ascribing unstated motives to the critics, particularly without addressing their substantive objectives, will do anything to further the conversation.  The accusation rings hollow in any event, as their are far more successful and creative people in the world than Donald Trump, and most of the people here critical of Trump are not critical of, say, Gates, Buffett, Jobs, Walton, Zuckerburg, etc.  That having been said, those people (some of which have their own flaws) do not use tactics from the Sopranos and Sons of Anarchy in order to acquire land, and -- perhaps as much of a moral crime to many here -- they do not incorrectly rate themselves a golf architecture prodigy.

Trump is (to some degree, like Branson) who he is - a marketer with one brand whose value-added has always been on the marketing side rather than the product side.  There's no need to ascribe improper motives to anyone in order to figure out why they may think this approach is inconsistent with quality (or ethical) golf architecture.

  Trump is the owner/developer not the architect.

Anthony



You, Anthony, clearly didn't see the Golf Channel program or you'd think Martin Hawtree was there to take notes for the great golf designer, Donald Trump.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2010, 08:58:09 PM »
Donald Trump's plea to homeowners on the Menie Estate
Published Date: 14 November 2010
By Emma Cowing

DONALD Trump has urged homeowners who have refused to move off the estate where the business tycoon is currently developing a £750 million golf resort to sacrifice their homes so that it doesn't hurt his "great project".
In a new documentary, Trump voices his frustrations at homeowners such as crofter Michael Forbes and neighbour David Milne, both of whom have steadfastly refused to sell their land to the American billionaire since he first bought the estate in 2005, despite the threat of compulsory purchase orders.

Interviewed in his vast offices at Trump Tower in New York, Trump said: "If I was in a position, let's say, of a Forbes or a Milne and it was going to hurt a great project, I would try and make a deal."

He continued: "They wanted money; at one point Forbes had no problem selling his land and then, all of a sudden, he got greedy."

Forbes, who, along with several neighbours, is involved in Tripping Up Trump, the local Aberdeenshire organisation that has attempted to block Trump's attempts to build the development at every turn, refuted the allegation.

He said: "He can take his money and shove it up his arse. I don't care about his money."

Donald Trump's Golf War, which will be screened on BBC Two Scotland tomorrow night, provides an intimate portrait of both sides of the debacle, with cameras following Trump and his staff for four years as they attempt to get his long held dream to build a world class golf resort in Scotland off the ground.

With access to Trump's inner circle, including his wife, Slovenian model Melania, and children including Donnie Trump, who was later put in charge of the Aberdeenshire project, the documentary paints a picture of a "David and Goliath" battle between the tycoon and the residents of the Menie Estate.

Trump's staff are sometimes portrayed as off-hand in their attitudes towards the locals. David and Moira Milne, who bought a former coastguard lookout station on the land and have been renovating it for the past 17 years, and who break down on camera at the thought of leaving their home, are targeted when Donnie, 32, describes their home as "an ugly house", to the amusement of various staff members.

Work on the golf resort started in July. The Trump Organisation claims the complex will generate £50m a year for the local economy and sustain more than 1,200 permanent jobs. As well as two championship golf courses, the development is set to include a 450 room hotel, 950 villas and 500 residential homes.

Without compulsory purchase orders, which would legally force the homeowners off the land, Trump Organisation remains powerless to force the residents to move. However, Aberdeenshire Council have so far refused to rule out the possibility.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2010, 11:02:42 PM »
My distaste for the man has been mentioned before.

Relevance: 22.8%
Quote from: Bob_Huntley on January 31, 2010, 04:51:29 AM
I couldn't sit back anymore.....

5  GolfClubAtlas.com / Golf Course Architecture / Re:Better than Pebble (Trump Content)  on: April 15, 2004, 11:25:54 pm  
Started by Jeffrey Formanczyk, Message by Bob_Huntley


How on earth can anyone give credence to anything this man says. His ridiculous hairstyle with dyed ends makes him out to be a mountebank.

Surely, he is one of the most odious men in the public eye.
 

Bob


 

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2010, 08:27:43 AM »
I work in the property business. A couple of months ago a colleague of mine attended a property conference on local authorities use of Compulsory Purchase powers. For those who don't know, CPO's can be used by local authorities to promote key or large scale developments. They are generally seen as unpopular by the populace at large particular where people lose their homes as a result. Consequently local authorities have been very reluctant to use these powers over the last 20 odd years and have relied on market forces to do the job.

The keynote speaker at the conference was John Swinney, the number two in the SNP government in Scotland. In his speech he urged Councils to be more proactive in using CPO's to allow development to go forward. In the workshops that followed the speeches it was made clear that no particular cases would be discussed, especially the Trump project. Make out of that what you will but my money is on CPO's being used in this project. This despite, previous comments from Trump that these houses weren't required for the project to proceed.

When you think about it, how many of the great links courses don't have a few houses adjoining or loverlooking the courses.

Niall


Jim Nugent

Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2010, 09:24:09 AM »
Compulsory purchase sounds like eminent domain in the U.S.  Government forces property owners to sell their property, even if they don't want to.  Government sets the price.  Eminent domain was supposedly "limited" to public use projects.  Inevitably that changed, and it has been used for lots of private enterprises as well.  e.g. the New York Times obtained the site for its current building through eminent domain.  NO surprise to me that Trump, unable to convince people to do what he wants, now turns to the ultimate power of government to force them to do his bidding. 

 

Alister Matheson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2010, 01:55:42 AM »
I watched Donald Trumps golf war on BBC 2  last night , an hour long documentry on the saga to date !

It seemed to be well balanced giving both parties a fair hearing.

My thoughts have not changed on this project i am all for it appart from C P O s .Just use the land you have !

Interested if anyone else watched it and what they thought ?

Cheers
            Alister

Cruden Bay Links Maintenance Blog

http://crudenbaylinks.blogspot.com/

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2010, 04:36:22 AM »
Ally

I watched the programme and thought it was well done.  

I have never been for the project because its really a housing estate slap bang in an area that has no business having houses there.  I also disagree completely with the government over-riding the Council decision.  This was a terrible move if the goal is to actually shift decision-making into the hands of locals and it sends the message to other councils to just roll over if in doubt.  I find it incredibly arrogant for the Trump people to be willing to be caught on camera making harsh comments about the properties in question - not in the least clever.  I also find it typical shuddered vision that when the Council Chair was removed from the position it was democracy at work, but when a grass roots swell to remove CPO as an option is in full gear its rabble rousing and under-handed.  This Aberdeenshire Council really is a bunch of gutless punks whom the electorate should be well embarassed of, but I suspect the electorate are dazzled by Trump's bling and promises of riches to realize how gutless they really are.  I know I shall never play The Greatest Course in the World and have a mind to boycott Aberdeenshire if only for the way its ex Council Chair was treated.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 04:41:26 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Anthony Gray

Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2010, 04:39:36 AM »

  How successful has Trump been internationally?I do not know.He is definately a lover of golf and himself,so building/owning a course in Scotland has to be a Holy Grail to him.Give it time before you cast judgement.

  Anthony



Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2010, 02:14:57 PM »
I too thought it was a pretty evenly-balanced prog. In Trump's defence the properties in question are: 1 a Pigsty and 2: an eyesore
BUT
they are people's HOMES, fercrissakes and NO CPO should ever be employed in order to recreate the highland clearances in this day and age. Disgusting.
FBD.
PS I know a guy who has it taped and can supply dvd copies to any interested parties. PM me if you know someone who might be.... 8)
PPS I hear Paul O'Connor (who was to be the Super) has been sacked too.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Simon Holt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2010, 02:24:03 PM »
Hi guys,

I thought it was very interesting but would have liked to see more of the golf course plans obviously!  Well made on the whole, still dont know where I stand on this one.

I know Neil Hobday and Paul O'Connor are not longer there.

S
2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2010, 02:39:29 PM »
I watched Donald Trumps golf war on BBC 2  last night , an hour long documentry on the saga to date !

It seemed to be well balanced giving both parties a fair hearing.

My thoughts have not changed on this project i am all for it appart from C P O s .Just use the land you have !

Interested if anyone else watched it and what they thought ?

Cheers
            Alister



Ally

Interesting comment on just using the land they have. Do you not think that they could just have used the links land excluding the SSSI to build the course ?

Niall

Richard Phinney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2010, 12:02:08 PM »
In Trump's defence the properties in question are: 1 a Pigsty and 2: an eyesore

Having met the home owners involved I must point out that the above sentiment is simply false and cruel. And if you are waiting for an eyesore, I suggest you wait until Mr Trump's hotel is completed.

Alister Matheson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2010, 03:35:53 PM »
I watched Donald Trumps golf war on BBC 2  last night , an hour long documentry on the saga to date !

It seemed to be well balanced giving both parties a fair hearing.

My thoughts have not changed on this project i am all for it appart from C P O s .Just use the land you have !

Interested if anyone else watched it and what they thought ?

Cheers
            Alister



Ally

Interesting comment on just using the land they have. Do you not think that they could just have used the links land excluding the SSSI to build the course ?

Niall


Niall
      Maybee they could squeeze a course in between all the developements  and the towering dunes ! But obviously this land is a lot less inspiring and would need to be more or less sculpted by D6S . The main reason for going through the dunes is that the holes/routing are for the most part shaped already by mother nature from what i have seen on a tour around the links .

What i think about SSSI s is that if the course is constructed properly with due care ect ...... there will be lots of land left untouched /spoiled.
As for the shifting sands they should have to leave some exposed areas on the outer edges of his land to keep sepa /enviromental bodies happy.There is imo a far more impressive shifting dune system just up the road north of Newburgh also a SSSI Site.

I can remember working at Skibo during the construction and there being a few holes we had to be carefull not to disturb an ancient slow growing SSSI lichen heath ! we put up post and wire fencing to stop most of it getting damaged/walked on and within two years  the wooden fence posts we had used appeared to be covered in the SAME ANCIENT SLOW GROWING LICHEN !

Cheers
          Ally



« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 04:06:44 PM by Ally Matheson »
Cruden Bay Links Maintenance Blog

http://crudenbaylinks.blogspot.com/

Ross Tuddenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2010, 04:04:03 PM »
Richard Phinney

Spot on, the guy uses his home as a base for his business so he rightly leaves his work equipment on his property.  I already disliked Trump but after watching the bbc show he somehow managed to come off even worse.  How can he loose all respect for another persons home and property?

Lets hope we don't end up with an irish style ghost town, a ruined sssi and families lives ruined. 


Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2010, 04:13:00 PM »
Richard Phinney,
it's that sort of selective misquoting that I find rather sad about this discussion group.
thanks,
Martin.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2010, 05:37:26 PM »
Just watched the programme on BBC I Player - here is the shortcut

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00w029w/Donald_Trumps_Golf_War/

You gotta feel for those people fighting for their livelhoods even the guy who has built up his home!

The golf course is on a stunning site I can help feeling it would destroy beautiful natural dunes. Some lands are better untouched and I feel that this is one of them but due to capitalism and commercial practices the person with the most money wins this is the world we live in.

Cheers
Ben

Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump in Scotland
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2010, 09:06:36 PM »
Just watched the programme on BBC I Player - here is the shortcut

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00w029w/Donald_Trumps_Golf_War/

You gotta feel for those people fighting for their livelhoods even the guy who has built up his home!

The golf course is on a stunning site I can help feeling it would destroy beautiful natural dunes. Some lands are better untouched and I feel that this is one of them but due to capitalism and commercial practices the person with the most money wins this is the world we live in.

Cheers
Ben

I am currently on a flight from Detroit to Kansas City, the player says that it is not available in my area.  Maybe someday, I will be worthy..... ;)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 09:19:19 PM by Jason Hines »