Ohio Top 40 (December 2017)

[BCowan]

A friend of mine played both Firestone courses last year and he said it wasn't anything special.  I guess you look at the rankings here and I guess I can see why.  For a course that has regularly been used for the PGA tour I think his expectation maybe was Augusta National I don't know.  I like the course on TV as I have never played.  By contrast he said he would rather play Urbana which I know is a Dye design.  They don't seem to be even close to the same type of courses.

I love playing Firestone.

I think a Hoover Firestone write up is in order!   

[BHoover]

A friend of mine played both Firestone courses last year and he said it wasn't anything special.  I guess you look at the rankings here and I guess I can see why.  For a course that has regularly been used for the PGA tour I think his expectation maybe was Augusta National I don't know.  I like the course on TV as I have never played.  By contrast he said he would rather play Urbana which I know is a Dye design.  They don't seem to be even close to the same type of courses.

I love playing Firestone.

I think a Hoover Firestone write up is in order!

I already did the write up. I said I love playing Firestone.

[Steve Lang]

   ok, I haven't lived in Ohio for 40 years (Toledo beginning 1959, Cinti, & Lima last 1991), but I seem to remember there's 88 counties in the heart of it all and there seemed to be at least 1 hidden gem or nice place to play in all of them open to the public, so... 


I'd be interested to see a basic split into public-private lists.  Where would the State Park courses stand in the public realm or between themselves?  I'd go Hueston Woods, Salt Fork, Deer Creek, Maumee from playing memory...  Where would Muni's such as my beloved home course Ottawa Park (site of the first US Am Publinks (1920) and annual Jermain Open, and Goo Open) stand against the others in NW Ohio area or other state quadrants or cities' metroparks??   


ps I've always had fun at Glenview in Cinti, but a quick round at Avon Fields during school years was basic sustainable adventure too... probably less funky then, than today I suppose.


Divide nd conquer boys...

[JLahrman]

I played Glenview halfway regularly from about 1989 through 2007. I liked playing there as well, in particular the original 18 (I never thought much of the "new" 9 which isn't so new anymore). But the last time I saw it, it was in desperate need of a chainsaw...

[DFarron]

So have been away from Ohio for 4 years....a couple of  observations.


1) Has Urbana made improvements in the past 10 years? If not can't see how its on the list.


2)Canterbury is the most under rated course on the list


3) Disappointed with the view on Congress, Elyria and Firestone, they are much better than that


4)Portage?


5)Ashland Golf Club is better than at least 12 of those courses on the list, it features a Willie Park Jr. front 9.


Bravo on placing Double Eagle where it fell, maybe the most disappointing Top 100 course I have ever played.


Just my $.02

[BCowan]

So have been away from Ohio for 4 years....a couple of  observations.


1) Has Urbana made improvements in the past 10 years? If not can't see how its on the list.


2)Canterbury is the most under rated course on the list


3) Disappointed with the view on Congress, Elyria and Firestone, they are much better than that


4)Portage?


5)Ashland Golf Club is better than at least 12 of those courses on the list, it features a Willie Park Jr. front 9.


Bravo on placing Double Eagle where it fell, maybe the most disappointing Top 100 course I have ever played.


Just my $.02

Drew,


   I didn't know you lived in Ohio too. 


2. I'd have it at 7, overrated imo, but the changes look better


3. Why don't you post your list, so we can see what you have played, why are they underrated? 


4. It's a Langford in Akron, it's 1 of 3 courses I hadn't heard of prior to doing the list.  It's one of the main reason in doing this list


5. I have been meaning to play Ashland, being a WPJ fan.  I thought he did all 18, who did the other 9?


- Agree, also others in Cbus that are overrated. 

[DFarron]

I didn't know you lived in Ohio too. 


2. I'd have it at 7, overrated imo, but the changes look better


3. Why don't you post your list, so we can see what you have played, why are they underrated? 


4. It's a Langford in Akron, it's 1 of 3 courses I hadn't heard of prior to doing the list.  It's one of the main reason in doing this list


5. I have been meaning to play Ashland, being a WPJ fan.  I thought he did all 18, who did the other 9?


- Agree, also others in Cbus that are overrated.

Born and raised in Southfield, went to college in Ohio and lived there until my move to sunny California,
Here's my top 25 in Ohio in order.....


1. Scioto
2. Brookside
3.  Camargo 
4. Muirfield Village
 5. Inverness
6. Canterbury
7. The Country Club
8. Shaker Heights
9. The Golf Club
10. Firestone South
11. Moraine
12. Kirtland
13. NCR South
14. Double Eagle
15. Congress Lake
16. Elyria
17. Mayfield CC
18. Sharon GC
19. Pepper Pike Club
20. Springfield 
21. Westbrook
22. Sleepy Hollow
23. OSU Scarlet 
24. Firestone North
25. Ashland Golf Club
 
 
 
 

[Jason Thompson]

First off, thanks to Ben for putting this together and everyone else who contributed. As a longtime Buckeye State resident, it's always fun to read everyone's thoughts about the tracks in my home state.


A few of my random observations on some of the lesser-discussed tracks on this list:


1. I had Denison (Granville) in my top 10; an absolutely fantastic old Ross course save for a bizarre stretch on the back 9. I've heard murmurs that there are plans to bring it back to its original routing or at least get rid of the clunkers.


2. I'm probably biased because it's in my hometown, but Westbrook CC is another one to see if you ever find yourself driving between Cleveland and Columbus. It maxes out at about 6500 yards which will deter some, but the course is a another Ross clinic in routing 18 solid holes on a tiny piece of land.


3. Ashland Golf Club another relatively short track (6400) that is rarely mentioned but also worth a play. Designed by Willie Park Jr. (front nine only I think), it's a great example of a former country club that went public and appears to be doing well. The par 5 9th features a downhill tee shot followed by a massively uphill approach to a postage stamp of a green. AGC was also popular because back in the day because they featured a beer vending machine out on the course. As you might imagine, this was a major selling point with junior golfers. 


4. I know there are issues with the cart paths and it could stand to lose quite a few trees, but I'm also a huge fan of Manakiki. It's just a blast of a golf course on a great piece of land, not to mention it's one of the better values I've ever played. It can be had for $20 walking during the week which is borderline criminal.


5. Keeping with the theme of short tracks (I swear it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm typically the Jim Furyk of my foursome), Portage CC in Akron needs more love IMO. If you like short, quirky Langford designs you will like Portage. I actually fall into the pro-Firestone CC camp and I'd go 8-2 Portage if given 10 rounds.


6. I had Columbus CC as a 5.5 on my original list but I'm optimistic it's going to make a Moraine-esque leap once it reopens in May. The early reports that I've heard from a buddy who is a member there sound very promising.

[Steve Kline]

Posting here as I was looking for a place to play in Cleveland this week.


Not nearly enough mention of Hyde Park (Ross). I've played just about everything worth talking about it Cincinnati multiple times. Hyde Park is my second favorite course. Great set of greens with tons of movement and variety. The restoration really recaptured the corners of the greens. It is by no means short. Almost 6,700 from the tips and par 71, but it played to a par 70 for U.S. Mid-Am qualifying. Plus, the fairways are zoysia so you don't get the roll you get at other places.


Coldstream is overrated in my opinion. Yes, it's long and can be hard. But, there aren't any really stand out holes. Nothing very inspiring or unique.


Cincinnati Country Club is probably not even top 5 in the city. Clovernook is fun with a decent set of greens. Not sure it's worthy of top 40 state status though. I always thought Maketewah was overrated but I haven't played it post renovation work. None of the publics in Cincinnati are very good. If Hyde Park doesn't make the list neither should Stonelick. I do like it, but a more walkable course should have been able to be achieved on that property.

[Brian Finn]

Posting here as I was looking for a place to play in Cleveland this week.

Not nearly enough mention of Hyde Park (Ross). I've played just about everything worth talking about it Cincinnati multiple times. Hyde Park is my second favorite course. Great set of greens with tons of movement and variety. The restoration really recaptured the corners of the greens. It is by no means short. Almost 6,700 from the tips and par 71, but it played to a par 70 for U.S. Mid-Am qualifying. Plus, the fairways are zoysia so you don't get the roll you get at other places.

Coldstream is overrated in my opinion. Yes, it's long and can be hard. But, there aren't any really stand out holes. Nothing very inspiring or unique.

Cincinnati Country Club is probably not even top 5 in the city. Clovernook is fun with a decent set of greens. Not sure it's worthy of top 40 state status though. I always thought Maketewah was overrated but I haven't played it post renovation work. None of the publics in Cincinnati are very good. If Hyde Park doesn't make the list neither should Stonelick. I do like it, but a more walkable course should have been able to be achieved on that property.

Hyde Park was number 17 on the list, and second in Cincinnati behind Camargo. Top 20 in Ohio is pretty impressive company to keep. 

[Steve Kline]

Posting here as I was looking for a place to play in Cleveland this week.

Not nearly enough mention of Hyde Park (Ross). I've played just about everything worth talking about it Cincinnati multiple times. Hyde Park is my second favorite course. Great set of greens with tons of movement and variety. The restoration really recaptured the corners of the greens. It is by no means short. Almost 6,700 from the tips and par 71, but it played to a par 70 for U.S. Mid-Am qualifying. Plus, the fairways are zoysia so you don't get the roll you get at other places.

Coldstream is overrated in my opinion. Yes, it's long and can be hard. But, there aren't any really stand out holes. Nothing very inspiring or unique.

Cincinnati Country Club is probably not even top 5 in the city. Clovernook is fun with a decent set of greens. Not sure it's worthy of top 40 state status though. I always thought Maketewah was overrated but I haven't played it post renovation work. None of the publics in Cincinnati are very good. If Hyde Park doesn't make the list neither should Stonelick. I do like it, but a more walkable course should have been able to be achieved on that property.

Hyde Park was number 17 on the list, and second in Cincinnati behind Camargo. Top 20 in Ohio is pretty impressive company to keep.

My bad. Totally missed it.

[Paul Jones]

Brian,


Great list.  Did Miami Valley ever make the list?


Thanks,
Paul

[Brian Finn]

Brian,
Great list.  Did Miami Valley ever make the list?
Thanks,
Paul

Yes, Miami Valley was on our original list, but got bumped off after several more people submitted their lists and other courses rose above it.  I would have to look back at the numbers, but if I recall correctly, the courses ranked in the high 20's to low 40's were pretty tightly bunched (as tends to happen in these rating processes), even with our small dataset.  When you look at the average ratings, you can see that the top 5 or 10 have noticeable gaps, and after number 20 or so, everything is within 0.5. 

I'm planning to get back to Ohio in a couple of months to see a few courses that I never got to while living there.  These days, I mostly have my hands full with the riches we have locally in NC!

[DFarron]

First off, thanks to Ben for putting this together and everyone else who contributed. As a longtime Buckeye State resident, it's always fun to read everyone's thoughts about the tracks in my home state.


A few of my random observations on some of the lesser-discussed tracks on this list:


1. I had Denison (Granville) in my top 10; an absolutely fantastic old Ross course save for a bizarre stretch on the back 9. I've heard murmurs that there are plans to bring it back to its original routing or at least get rid of the clunkers.


2. I'm probably biased because it's in my hometown, but Westbrook CC is another one to see if you ever find yourself driving between Cleveland and Columbus. It maxes out at about 6500 yards which will deter some, but the course is a another Ross clinic in routing 18 solid holes on a tiny piece of land.


3. Ashland Golf Club another relatively short track (6400) that is rarely mentioned but also worth a play. Designed by Willie Park Jr. (front nine only I think), it's a great example of a former country club that went public and appears to be doing well. The par 5 9th features a downhill tee shot followed by a massively uphill approach to a postage stamp of a green. AGC was also popular because back in the day because they featured a beer vending machine out on the course. As you might imagine, this was a major selling point with junior golfers. 


4. I know there are issues with the cart paths and it could stand to lose quite a few trees, but I'm also a huge fan of Manakiki. It's just a blast of a golf course on a great piece of land, not to mention it's one of the better values I've ever played. It can be had for $20 walking during the week which is borderline criminal.


5. Keeping with the theme of short tracks (I swear it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm typically the Jim Furyk of my foursome), Portage CC in Akron needs more love IMO. If you like short, quirky Langford designs you will like Portage. I actually fall into the pro-Firestone CC camp and I'd go 8-2 Portage if given 10 rounds.


6. I had Columbus CC as a 5.5 on my original list but I'm optimistic it's going to make a Moraine-esque leap once it reopens in May. The early reports that I've heard from a buddy who is a member there sound very promising.

Bravo on your mention of the beer machines at Ashland. I was the assistant pro there in the ‘80’s and that was my concession 😄