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Ted Kramer

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Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #325 on: November 01, 2010, 04:51:23 PM »
I don't worry about any of this stuff.
I'm sure people as smart as Sarah Palin have it all completely under control . . .
We just have to get the right people in office!!!

-Ted

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #326 on: November 01, 2010, 05:24:51 PM »
What is "The Middle Class"?

An endangered species!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #327 on: November 01, 2010, 06:15:32 PM »
Somebody please notify the Nobel Prize in Economics Committee of the GCA.com discussion forum....  How have they overlooked these gentlemen who have the answers, and right at the tip of their fingers! Okeydoaky then... ::) ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #328 on: November 01, 2010, 06:19:51 PM »
Somebody please notify the Nobel Prize in Economics Committee of the GCA.com discussion forum....  How have they overlooked these gentlemen who have the answers, and right at the tip of their fingers! Okeydoaky then... ::) ;D 8)

Dick, are you referring to the strong consensus?   ??? ??? ::) ::) :o :o

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #329 on: November 01, 2010, 07:53:26 PM »
"Expansion in U.S. manufacturing in October, ISM index climbs to 56.9%, confounding expectations of a decline"

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-expands-in-october-ism-2010-11-01?siteid=yhoof

"U.S. Economy: Factory Index Rises to Five-Month High"

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-01/u-s-economy-factory-index-rises-to-five-month-high.html
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 08:04:53 PM by David_Tepper »

corey miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #330 on: November 01, 2010, 08:25:00 PM »



I think this says it all.  We even have folks on here,  like Obama, just don't get it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsZpWej8pF4&feature=player_embedded

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #331 on: November 01, 2010, 08:27:54 PM »
"Expansion in U.S. manufacturing in October, ISM index climbs to 56.9%, confounding expectations of a decline"

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-expands-in-october-ism-2010-11-01?siteid=yhoof

"U.S. Economy: Factory Index Rises to Five-Month High"

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-01/u-s-economy-factory-index-rises-to-five-month-high.html

David,
I appreciate these links, but you are wasting your time replying to some of these folks.  They are not about to let inconveniences like facts get in the way of their rants.  On the previous page you have a guy explaining away a tax reduction that the Brookings Institute says is real.  His justification?  That federal spending is leading to inflation that far surpassing the tax cut.

BTW, the current yearly inflation rate for 2010 is approx 1.7% (Sept. was 1.1%, the 4th month in a row under 2%).  The 2009 rate was, well, -0.4%.  The 2008 rate?  3.8%!

Like I said, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.  BTW, I'm not even giving Obama the credit for this; I will give it to Bernanke and the FED.  
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #332 on: November 01, 2010, 08:29:32 PM »
Quote
Guess what, folks:  they noticed.

And that's why they're pissed.  The smart ones were pissed when Bush did it. Now, they're even MORE pissed that Obama's done it too.  

When will the Sharon Angle's, Sarah Palins, Paladinos, and Joe Miller darlings of this so-called pissed off teahadist movement show up in a public economics discussion with actual learned experts and explain these 'recovery and rebalancing" economic dynamics that Dave and Noel seem to be easily explaining away.  

Let me see... These captains of industry, engine of job creationin the economy- corporatists were pissed when Bush over spent, but didn't see any need to openly challenge and protest such spending, because after all... they did get the biggest slice of the tax cuts.  So, as along as deregulated money manufacturing centers of financial chicanery were wide open to creatively play banko, they could live with this "other" lproblem of overspending, like by taking on adventures of two war fronts, and those tax cuts themselves, both unfunded or significanlty deficit increasing, etc etc.  

But now, on the eve of an initiative to leave the tax cuts in place, for all but the upper 2%, it is time to join hands in some bauky manufactured populist belligerant teaparty movement, and show how pissed they were then - but really are now highly motivated to act by electing some recruited cartoonish figures masquerading for would be legislators in the halls of the US House and Senate?  How lucky for our country that we are on the verge of installing some of these titans of greater economic understanding...  ::) :-\
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #333 on: November 01, 2010, 08:31:05 PM »



I think this says it all.  We even have folks on here,  like Obama, just don't get it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsZpWej8pF4&feature=player_embedded


Corey,
That you would reply to David Tepper's links to Marketwatch and Businessweek with a cartoon (and a poorly produced one at that!) does indeed say it all.  Thanks for clearing up all the misunderstandings with claymation figures.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #334 on: November 01, 2010, 08:49:13 PM »
AG, you must understand that these useful yet gratuitiously vulgar cartoons, are specifically designed to reach and inculcate rt wing economic theory into the teahadists who are needed as the angry mob to act at the ballot box.  They can't recruit any moderately educated and thoughtful voters to swallow that much ideologue BS, so they have to recruit somewhere, and the ready made 'angry mob' of unfocused angst and carefully cultivated fearsome sound bit watchers, really do respond well to the claymation (no offense to you my good man, Adam  ;) ).   

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #335 on: November 01, 2010, 08:54:30 PM »
Ouch! Politics does bring out the worst in some people...  :o

« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 07:26:45 AM by Craig Edgmand »

corey miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #336 on: November 01, 2010, 08:58:59 PM »
RJ


Sorry I did not meet your standard for even a moderately educated or thoughtful voter or person.  

Funny, Joe Miller graduated from West Point, has a Yale Law degree, and a Bronze Star from the first golf war and RJ Daley thinks he is a cartoonish figure.  Very funny. very very funny. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 09:22:12 PM by corey miller »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #337 on: November 01, 2010, 09:24:12 PM »
Corey, now I know damn well you are smart enough to realize that my post was not about you somehow not meeting a standard 'for even a moderately educated or thoughtful voter or person'. 

I was worried that I may have misstated the quip to AG and actually offended you, so I read it again.  It seems pretty clear my comment was directed to the movement or 'powers that be' astroturf promoters that more likely made that little patronizing pop vulgar claymation in order to drill in the talking points to some folks that are not very savvy on business economics and need the aid of a fast primer to be able to go out and carry that water.  Please tell me the claymation wasn't your idea!   :o

Craig, now really the ugly stuff is in the ugly language of the cartoon.  How am I ugly to observe that?  In fact, the cartoon is targetted for 2010 effect with its vulgarity and sophmoric message, not any lovey dovey euphoria some of us may have felt about the prospects of 2008.  Ugly is as ugly does...

 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #338 on: November 01, 2010, 09:29:03 PM »
What is "The Middle Class"?

An endangered species!


Then why does every politician focus so much evergy on them?

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #339 on: November 01, 2010, 09:31:36 PM »


Funny, Joe Miller graduated from West Point, has a Yale Law degree, and a Bronze Star from the first golf war and RJ Daley thinks he is a cartoonish figure.  Very funny. very very funny. 

Gee Corey, he must be a shoe-in then, with a highly educated and polished presentation.  His credentials almost mimic some other guy I remember who should have been a shoe-in with such cred, although maybe a little different war... what's his name... John Kerry I believe.  ;D

If Sarah wants him, he has got to be good.  And I love the security team outfits Joe's boys wear.  It is like skinheads meets the blues bros.  Great American patriots all I'm sure...
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #340 on: November 01, 2010, 09:34:19 PM »
corey miller writes:
Funny, Joe Miller graduated from West Point, has a Yale Law degree, and a Bronze Star from the first golf war and RJ Daley thinks he is a cartoonish figure

Isn't he the cartoonish figure whose security imprisoned a journalist and believes the Berlin Wall was designed to keep people out of East Berlin?

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
Now, obviously, other things there were involved. We have the capacity, as a great nation, obviously, to secure our border. If East Germany could, we could.
 --Joe Miller

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #341 on: November 02, 2010, 06:58:02 AM »
You're comparing America to Canada, England and Australia, and implying that they don't allow a mortgage interest dediction...

That's because they're basically socialist nations with massively progressive taxes and (not surprisingly) giganticly upside-down economies!

Of course they don't allow mortgage interest deductions. It's a miracle they allow any of their citizens to keep any of their income at all...and THESE are the countries we're supposed to be taking the lead from?  LOL! 

Shivas, if you think Australia is a 'basically socialist nation', you need to get out more. While the morons on both sides of the aisle in Washington cement the decline of a great nation, we're doing just fine!


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #342 on: November 02, 2010, 07:06:48 AM »
Pat Mucci -

As Rob Bice has quoted above:

5.  Home ownership in the US is roughly the same as it is in Canada, Australia and England where mortgage interest is not deductible

Perhaps what got us into the this mess in the first place is that too many people starting thinking of their homes as "business" and not just a place to live. The fact is that, up until the past 15-20 years, the prices of residential real estate (in the country as a whole) barely kept up with inflation and owning a home was a mediocre investment at best.

DT

Is this a joke?

You're comparing America to Canada, England and Australia, and implying that they don't allow a mortgage interest dediction...

That's because they're basically socialist nations with massively progressive taxes and (not surprisingly) giganticly upside-down economies!

Of course they don't allow mortgage interest deductions. It's a miracle they allow any of their citizens to keep any of their income at all...and THESE are the countries we're supposed to be taking the lead from?  LOL!  

Its uninfomed/uneducated comments like this which help turn people off to the US and make it easy to accuse Americans of being clueless of what happens outside of its borders.  Its also a reason why I find it difficult to read these sorts of threads which are invariably tainted by party/ideological politics (which is especially ironic since there is no real left or right in the States) and folks with short term memories spouting off.

As to Mucci's theory of the White House succeeding in the elimination of the deduction for mortgage-interest, child tax credits and deductions for employees to pay for their health insurance premium contributions leading to the closure of golf clubs - I doubt it.

The fact is, the baby boomer generation has the US government and a high percentage of households in huge debt.  The single best thing the government can do to help the country is to devise a sensible budget which is balanced and attacks debt.  Until that is seen as the number one priority, the problems caused by over extension of the government will continue.  The important issue of personal debt is something I have no clue as to how it should be resolved or if it is possible to do so.  However, I hope credit for the unqualified is never as cheap as we have seen these past 15 years. 

Ciao  
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 07:15:58 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #343 on: November 02, 2010, 07:19:22 AM »
Shivas,

You say
"Of course they don't allow mortgage interest deductions. It's a miracle they allow any of their citizens to keep any of their income at all...and THESE are the countries we're supposed to be taking the lead from?  LOL! "

Mortgage interest deductions have been off-on-off the table a number of times in the last 25 years depending which way the political winds were blowing.

You might get a pleasant surprise if you visited Down Under where the political nose is very well attuned...not to mention the nose for fine wine, wonderful food, great people, a thriving political system, pretty good economy and fabulous golf courses.  As the poor girl who got sacked said "Where the hell are you!?"

Still and all an eye-opener of a thread.

Cheers Col

 
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #344 on: November 02, 2010, 07:55:58 AM »
Sean,

I am one of those who think debt is the biggest driver of economic conditions, so I agree with you.   And, I believe the record shows that both parties in the US have simply ignored fiscal reality to get the votes of the baby boomer generation, so perhaps we have no one but own selves to blame, albeit it does seem like its tough to fight city hall.

The saddest part is that I know at least one person on the inside, and he says its impossible to fix as the system sits right now.  No one has the will to stop spending (again, mostly because most of us still like the idea of free stuff other people pay for more than fiscal reponsibility)  Even the Tea Party friends of mine who decree Obamacare eventually say something like "I got my knee replacement for $10 co-pay and now its going to cost me over $1000!!"  Of course part of any health care reform is to have us pay more out of pocket, because the govt. can't afford to keep paying it.

However, you don't get elected by preaching doom and gloom either (see Jimmy Carter and "economic malaise") so they keep spending, and passing more programs that are basically based on our Leave it to Beaver image of America that has been slipping away for decades.

I am off to vote now!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 07:59:56 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Carl Rogers

Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #345 on: November 02, 2010, 08:02:18 AM »
This thread has not been the web site's finest hour.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #346 on: November 02, 2010, 08:46:12 AM »
Carl,

       You apparently haven't been around for the election cycle before.   ;)

        Ran/Ben usually let this go until after the election and then they are gone.

        This too shall pass....

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #347 on: November 02, 2010, 09:41:29 AM »
 I heard this at a Quaker meeting this morning. Someone shared that she had received advice from a conservative man about how to accept differences in political points of view.


    He said " Remember it isn't our dreams that divide us ; it is our fears".


     I think this helps me to see both sides better.


     
AKA Mayday

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #348 on: November 02, 2010, 10:13:33 AM »
Good to see that the insane and terminally stupid are not barred from political office in the US, judging by some of the current candidates.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if
« Reply #349 on: November 02, 2010, 10:51:45 AM »
Martin,

      Our system kind of encourages it, after all what sane person would want to run for office anymore.