The White House will soon make golf/country clubs extinct if

[JohnV]

Pat -

Read this article re: repayment of TARP funds:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-Street-Bailout-Returns-bloomberg-2879796906.html?x=0

DT

Careful what you tell them David or they'll start remembering that TARP happened during Bush's reign and will start trying to take credit for it again.

[Martin Toal]

Mortgage interest disappeared in the UK years ago.

I could be tempted to say that the current crisis in the UK and other European economies was caused by our transatlantic friends, but that would be churlish,  so I won't.

[Roger Wolfe]

I don't think the country club will become extinct.  The platinum clubs will be fine.  The middle and low tier clubs will have to change their mission and evolve into "sports clubs". They will provide golf, swimming, tennis, curling, fitness, with minimal service, snack bars, and golf grills.  The reduction in disposable income will kill the CMAA.  I think the golfers will be fine.

[brad_miller]

My read of the Obama stimulus was far from this, mostly transfer payments to help support excessive federal, state and local govt spending that will only be cut 1-2 years down the road. If I was grading this stimulus I would struggle to give it a D+, too bad we did not find a way to make it a solid B. Very very little money for capital/growth creation.


"The Stimulus was basically an investment in the USA which we hope will pay off in long term growth of the economy where we capture increased tax revenues from that growth aka it is an equity investment that we are waiting on..... You pay out additional unemployment benefits hoping that workers spend the money on re-training and get hired in a new industry to keep it simple. I think it is fair to say that it is working very very slowly with employment at a still very high levels."


   

[archie_struthers]

 

Some discussion of the government as it applies to GCA is relevant. When I built Twisted Dune the local politicians did everythng they could to insure we wouldn't succeed. It literally ran the gamut from misuse of the permitting process to use of engineering department as enforcement agent to extortion...vote them all our ..Republicans and Dems alike

[Gary Slatter]

What would happen to professional athletes if the gov't took away the deduction of tickets as a business expense?  IMHO the majority of "ticket sales" are corporate, what would happen if companies couldn't buy seasons tickets? 

[Mike Sweeney]

My read of the Obama stimulus was far from this, mostly transfer payments to help support excessive federal, state and local govt spending that will only be cut 1-2 years down the road. If I was grading this stimulus I would struggle to give it a D+, too bad we did not find a way to make it a solid B. Very very little money for capital/growth creation.


"The Stimulus was basically an investment in the USA which we hope will pay off in long term growth of the economy where we capture increased tax revenues from that growth aka it is an equity investment that we are waiting on..... You pay out additional unemployment benefits hoping that workers spend the money on re-training and get hired in a new industry to keep it simple. I think it is fair to say that it is working very very slowly with employment at a still very high levels."

Brad,

I was trying to say basically what you said. Just distracted by the Giants game....


   

[Jud_T]

Pat,

The virulant anti-business climate in Washington will be changing starting next Tuesday...There's ZERO chance that the mortgage-interest deduction is going anywhere in the near future, at least until the housing market is healthy again, and even then it would be phased in over time.  Clubs outside of the toniest suburbs that don't provide excellent golf and fair value and have a mountain of debt for unnecessary facilities will get what's coming to them in a free market...

[John Kavanaugh]

The stimulus program is working.  I have personal knowledge of an individual who purchased two new private club memberships this year as a direct result from work received as part of the stimulus program.

Time and time again it has been proven on this site that private club members are happy to subsidize others who may choose to play their course on a less frequent basis.  The private clubs will continue to exist they may just be more honest about their lack of privacy.

To borrow from another thread.  It ain't so much that Bandon is public, just nothing else is private anymore.

[Chris Johnston]

The stimulus program is working.  I have personal knowledge of an individual who purchased two new private club memberships this year as a direct result from work received as part of the stimulus program.

Time and time again it has been proven on this site that private club members are happy to subsidize others who may choose to play their course on a less frequent basis.  The private clubs will continue to exist they may just be more honest about their lack of privacy.

To borrow from another thread.  It ain't so much that Bandon is public, just nothing else is private anymore.

John - well said!

Glad to see you back. 

[Mike Sweeney]

The stimulus program is working.  I have personal knowledge of an individual who purchased two new private club memberships this year as a direct result from work received as part of the stimulus program.

Time and time again it has been proven on this site that private club members are happy to subsidize others who may choose to play their course on a less frequent basis.  The private clubs will continue to exist they may just be more honest about their lack of privacy.

To borrow from another thread.  It ain't so much that Bandon is public, just nothing else is private anymore.

And that individual gave up one, correct?

You will be happy as Patrick's governor is using his rather large and heavy body on your roads as "Christie Takes to the Road."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304248704575574732025540578.html?KEYWORDS=christie+takes+to+the+road

Perhaps you will someday join a snooty NJ club for your resume.

[John Kavanaugh]

Chris,

Thank you.  Email me those pics of the new 18th at Dismal and I will start a thread shining a light on the bright future of golf to offset these doom and gloomers.  

Sweeney,

Yes, that individual did give up one for a net gain of one.  He must be more fiscally responsible than he thought.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have wanted to give a shout out about my love affair with Scratch Golf and now have an appropriate time.  Thanks to the stimulus program I have been able to purchase a set of Scratch EZ-1's and complimentary wedges. (With Project X shafts for sentimental reasons)  The beauty of construction which is exceeded by the feel of execution will lead many of my friends to purchase similar clubs from this excellent company and leader in what is great about the future of golf.  Architecturally speaking, I am confident the profits from these purchases will go towards the owners of the company playing many fine courses in every region of this country if not the world.  And that is just based on one post I read yesterday.

[JC Jones]

To borrow from another thread.  It ain't so much that Bandon is public, just nothing else is private anymore.

I knew you'd get it. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

In reality, I think they have been chipping away at the mortgage deduction value via alternative minimum tax and other means for years.  There is no reason to buy a (BIGGER)house to get the deduction based on math alone, as my ex used to think.  This all started about the same time Reagan lowered tax rates.  Deductions were effectively lowered to make up the difference.

While I lean right, whoever thinks both parties aren't revenue whores is wrong, IMHO.

My complaint about the stimulus was the relative amounts transferred to other govt agencies and the relative dearth devoted to rebuilding our nations infrastructure, which IMHO has a better chance of being an investment, rather than just more spending.  I have the impression that FDR did more of that in the New Deal and it paid off.

[Craig Van Egmond]

The TARP/Bailout status all depends on where you read...

http://bailout.propublica.org/main/summary

Looks like 169 billion is still outstanding for the TARP and 302 billion for TARP/Bailout.

I doubt we will ever see any of the $148 billion back from Fannie/Freddie. It wouldn't surprise me if that number increases.

[mike_malone]

 Obama is pretty amazing to be able to tear down the country in such a short time. My take is that we have been living beyond our means for decades and it finally has come to an end. The White House under all presidents during this time has allowed the financial industry to run wild by making fortunes off the middle class. First by conning them into stocks at excessive prices then by lending them gobs of money on the false pretense that real estate prices can only rise.

    I expect problems for private clubs becauce many of these financial millionaires support the clubs and their personal futures are in jeopardy.

    It really isn't the government; it is our greed and self interest.

[Michael Whitaker]

It a club's financial viability is dependent on subsidy from federal tax deductions I have no trouble seeing that club forced into closure or a significant reduction of services by the removal of that subsidy.

Public money should not be used to benefit private entities, especially the playgrounds of the wealthy and privileged. Funny, it's always the wealthy and privileged who bitch the most about being shortchanged by the tax code.     

[Jud_T]

It a club's financial viability is dependent on subsidy from federal tax deductions I have no trouble seeing that club forced into closure or a significant reduction of services by the removal of that subsidy.

Public money should not be used to benefit private entities, especially the playgrounds of the wealthy and privileged. Funny, it's always the wealthy and privileged who bitch the most about being shortchanged by the tax code.     

Given that the top 5% of earners pay well over 50% of the tax burden currently, I'd say they have a right to bitch the most...

[David_Tepper]

"Funny, it's always the wealthy and privileged who bitch the most about being shortchanged by the tax code."    

Mike -

Especially when they are the ones who benefit the most by the tax code!

DT

[David_Elvins]

Given that the top 5% of earners pay well over 50% of the tax burden currently, I'd say they have a right to bitch the most...

Thats a pretty standard function of the progressive tax systems used across the western world.  

And compared to most other developed nations, high income earners in America pay low taxes.  

Although I would tend to think that all socio-economic groups bitch about governments equally. 

[Jim Hoak]

Let's be exact on the tax burden--the top 1% pay 40% of the taxes; the next 9% pay 30% of the taxes--so the top 10% pay 70%.  45% of the people pay NO taxes.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Lets be clear those numbers, while true, are about Federal Income taxes. Most people rich and poor still pay taxes for Medicare, FICA, property, sales , phones, soda pop , cigerattes, utilities, alcohol, state income, personal property, business, gasoline, drivers license, car tag, etc.... etc.....

[Terry Lavin]

As long as it doesn't affect Merion!

[archie_struthers]

 

Given the corruption and negligence in government at every level , it never ceases to amaze me that we continually vote the same people into office . Ten years of turnover in office would change the country dramatically for the best .  

Anyone who tries to build a deck on the back of their house knows the pain of getting a permit without a "connection " or "friend downtown, It's really sad to see an elderly couple or struggling young family have to pay for two surveys (as built and finished) , a lawyer , and various and sundry local permit fees just to replace rotting steps on their house.  Heaven forbid you scream about the costs to the bureaucrats , who then put you on the "list"  . It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic!

Just last week on a local radio station the mayor of a neighboring community complained about the "politicians " running up the costs of government (  he's a small govt. Republican LOL)   However in the twenty five years he has been "mayor" the local govenrment has grown enormously and the taxes are outrageous.  You can't get a permit to put a chair on your deck without him signing off ....what a joke it has become, and unless you have to build something you might never know it !