Home Club Bias

[Jonathan Cummings]

My club has a history of ups and downs.  After the recent redo (huge $$) the place was fantasic in the spring, struggling in the summer and now again fantastic. 

Confession - I am a lowly rater - have been for eons.  So I have submitted several ratings on my home course (allowable for my magazine).

I've been embarrassed by my club in times where it has shown itself poorly.  I love the place in times like now where it is firing on all cylinders.

Over 25 years, if asked for an instantaneous rating of my home course, it would vary significantly.  I suspect when it looks good I would tend to overrate it - probably a natural tendency.  Maybe .5-1 point??

How about you?  Do you tend to over-rate your home course?

jaycee



 

[Adam Clayman]

There's a similar bias when one travels a long way, or spends an incredible amount of money to go and play somewhere. One may be conscience and the latter sub.

[Matt_Ward]

Jonathan:

If one is seriously rating why the need for a home course -- I say that because once people have invested into a place it's far likely they won't be able to maintain a healthy distance for valuable perspective.

It's no different than architects rating their own places.

[Chris Johnston]

JC

I am probably more biased about my home courses, yet I am also far more critical, yet I also appreciate the nuances that I would never discover on visted courses, yet I sometimes appreciate the sheer "newness" away from home.  I know, I know, but it makes sense to me.

For me, it all comes down to "people, place, passion in sum, equals experience".  We have that in spades at my home club.

Nice shot!

[Tom_Doak]

Hard to overrate my home course, but alas, the golf season is about over.

[JC Jones]

Hard to overrate my home course, but alas, the golf season is about over.

Golfweek has CD as the #7 classic.  Out of curiosity, do you think that is spot on, over or under rating?

[Peter Pallotta]

One of the main reasons I want to have a home club some day is precisely so that I can over-rate it.

I want to love it, and love being there, and see none of its faults. Not blindly, mind you - but out of affection for what I am part of, what I am helping to support.

As someone once said: Love is not blind. As love, it sees faults more clearly than ever before; but, being love, it sees past all of them.   

[Jonathan Cummings]

Nice shot!

Thanks Chris, again thanks for being there!

[Tim Bert]

I think the private golfing world is in perfect harmony when all members have a home club bias.  If we all like our own club better than the average critic or rater then there will be a good deal of satisfaction.

I actually think it is highly likely that many people choose a course as their home course precisely because they are biased toward that course as opposed to being biased because they are a member.  This is how I came to my decision for the club I previously joined and for the one I am now considering.

[Jud_T]

Tim,

Great point.  Based on my 2 experiences I can tell you definitively that it's much preferrable to feel that your club is underrated by the raters/public rather than overrated.

[Dan Herrmann]

Let me put it this way.  I play on a Hanse design that is finally getting a lot of positive local buzz.  And that's just the way I like it.  We'll never be a top 100, and that's fine.  What is much better is hosting guys from other local clubs and courses and having them enjoy the course and the day.

Hell, what else do you really need?

[cary lichtenstein]

I've always been amazing how strong the home club bias is. So much so, that you have to walk on eggs when playing with a member and bullshit him him how great their course is. Anyway else feel that way?

[C. Squier]

I've always been amazing how strong the home club bias is. So much so, that you have to walk on eggs when playing with a member and bullshit him him how great their course is. Anyway else feel that way?

Ever tell a friend their wife is ugly and their kids are rotten?

(Do that first, they'll be less offended than if you rip their course)

[Greg Ohlendorf]

You better and should love your home course. That's why it's your home course. Even if a rater may have a slight bias on his home course, it all comes out in the wash with enough ratings from others if its truly not worthy. I also think that when playing with a member at their course, they should love it and tell you what they like about it. A rater worth his salt can sort out the the BS from reality without much difficulty.

Greg

[cary lichtenstein]

I've always been amazing how strong the home club bias is. So much so, that you have to walk on eggs when playing with a member and bullshit him him how great their course is. Anyway else feel that way?

Ever tell a friend their wife is ugly and their kids are rotten?

(Do that first, they'll be less offended than if you rip their course)

Very funny!!!!!!!!!!  Start with how rotten the dog is!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Carl Johnson]

Although my home course is my favorite course, if I were a "rater" I would refuse to include it in my ratings even if allowed by my "magazine."  In fact, if my magazine allowed it from anyone, I would not participate in their ratings program any longer.  Whether actual bias would come in to play, the credibility of a publication that would allow the possibility has to be questioned - seriously - and I would want no part of it.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Carl - pretty silly response.  One vote in the ratings, even assuming it is bias, has little affect in the overall ratings/rankings.  That's pretty much why the mags have large panels - to generate stable averages.  One voter's response is smeared by the masses - much like they are in political exit polls.  All that is left to report is sampling error - a simple function of the number of people polled.

   

[PCCraig]

There is nothing wrong with a "home club" bias, in fact, it's totally natural. Why would anyone join a golf course they didn't enjoy playing?

As far as the rating of said course comes in, as long as the member doesn't vote their course a 10 for no other reason that it's his home course (unless of course the home club is CPC), there isn't much of an issue as Jonathan points out with 40 votes on a course it'll all average out.

Personally I like playing courses with a member that obviously enjoys their club, its history, and understands all the changes the course has gone through over the years. If it's my first play, or only an occational visit, it helps me apprieciate the course more and understand some design intent that usually would be more evident with more play.

[Mark McKeever]

Let me put it this way.  I play on a Hanse design that is finally getting a lot of positive local buzz.  And that's just the way I like it.  We'll never be a top 100, and that's fine.  What is much better is hosting guys from other local clubs and courses and having them enjoy the course and the day.

Hell, what else do you really need?

Well said Dan.  Im glad French Creek is becoming more popular among some of the big guns in the area.  As far as hosting guests goes, I can't agree more.  I thoroughly enjoy having people up to see Schuylkill as well!

Mark

[Carl Johnson]

Carl - pretty silly response.  One vote in the ratings, even assuming it is bias, has little affect in the overall ratings/rankings.  That's pretty much why the mags have large panels - to generate stable averages.  One voter's response is smeared by the masses - much like they are in political exit polls.  All that is left to report is sampling error - a simple function of the number of people polled.  

Jonathan,

I respect your position on this, but disagree (respectfully) with both the substance of your position and your characterization of my response as "silly."  Here's why.

First, I was taught as child (many, many years ago) that in the conduct of one's business and personal affairs it was not enough to avoid bias, unethical behavior and the like, but also to avoid even the appearance of such.  This has also been one of the tenants of my profession (legal, from which I am now retired, and no jokes please).  I have always tried to live up to this standard, both in business and my personal life, and it has always served me well.

You might say, "Well, that is fine for you, but you should not hold others to the same standard."  That's a reasonable position, but since it always comes down to a question of values, which are not susceptible to logical analysis, I have no problem expecting from others the same behavior.  For better or worse, silly or not, that's just the way I am.

From a somewhat more logical standpoint, I would ask, if the one club member's vote makes so little difference in the overall ratings, then why even take the chance that the ratings might be accused of bias?  In this I do not fault you, but rather your "magazine" for its policy.  By the way, I assume that if neither you nor your magazine sees a problem with its policy, then you could tell those of us who do not already know which magazine it is?  Please.

To respond to another comment, I agree that in evaluating a course it ought to be really helpful to the rater to receive insights from members.  But this does not mean to me that, therefore, a member ought to be entitled to vote in the ratings.

Regards, Carl

[John Kirk]

Everybody thinks their home course is a Doak 6.  Well, except for Doak. 


http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41629

[Jim Franklin]

As a rater, I was always overly critical of my club. I notice the slight blemishes. But I can tell you, the more I travel and see different places, the more I love my home course and feel it is way underrated. Also in my travels though, I have seen other courses that are way underrated and it really surprises me. I guess it shouldn't.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom MacWood,

You asked, what constitutes a conflict of interest.

Rating your home course constitutes a conflict of interest.

[Rory Connaughton]

Dan

  I think you have every reason to feel a strong bias for your home club.  French Creek is incredible fun and has terrific variety especially as you get deeper into a round.  Hard not to have a big smile on your face from 11 on!

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

What if one has no home club? In that case, at least in theory, one could feel unconstrained in implying other clubs and their members and friends have conflicts of interest, would you not say?  

I do not have a home club bias---never have had-----and it apparently has to do with the fact I just know it so well, probably too well, sort of like my wife. 

Many years ago I learned to not unnecessarily idealize things, and people too. I learned this the hard way after I'd unrealistically idealized my own father. I came to understand he was a rather complicated person and that idealizing him as I had just set me up for a number of unnecessary disappointments. After that things worked out just remarkably well for both of us and our relationship got better and better and stronger and stronger eventually culminating in his final words to me and a look which were completely unexpected and perhaps the greatest release into emotional freedom I have even known.